help trouble shooting em3ev kit

[Yamamonger]

So i just got my upgraded Mac motor kit from em3ev and was super excited and got it all working last night. I tested it and it was working great. But today i worked on it some more and was housing it in a plexiglass frame in the triangle of my bike and got it all in there nice and neat and then went out to test it on the road for the first time and it wasn't running. I flipped the ignition and the ca3 came on perfect reading that my batteries were fully charged and that they were at 63 volts and I hit the throttle and nothing happened. After trouble shooting for several hours i still haven't gotten it to work, but have hopefully narrowed down the possible failure.
The battery Is sending electricity to the controller and the controller is powering the ca3 just fine. The throttle on the ca3 is also working because it is changing the throttle graphic on the bottom left. I've checked all the wires with my multi meter to see if i can find a short and everything leaving the controller is getting power, the phase wires are getting 62 volts before i plug them into their connections to the motor then they read 0v. I have everything wired up like i did for the first test that was successful and that was wired according to the diagram(as unhelpful as it was) that cell man sent me with the package. I've got some experience with electricity and have made sure that all of the connections are solid and wires are intact and can't find a thing that's wrong. I have some pictures posted below of what it looks like and would appreciate any help that's out there. It seems like there is no good reason for that rear wheel not to spin when everything is (seemingly) functioning perfectly!

 

[Yamamonger]

Just to be thorough, it's the following specifications,
-2 5ah 6cell turnigy lipos and 1 5ah 3 cell turnigy battery in series for 60v nominal
-Upgraded Mac motor 500/1000w geared rear hub motor
-1 cycle analyst v3
-9 fet infinion 30A controller(36-75V, IRFB4110)
Connections are xt60s from hobby king for the batteries and everything else looks like 4mm bullet connectors

 

[Raged]

unplug the brakes.

 

[Yamamonger]

That would make a lot of sense but they didn't ship me the brake so it's not hooked up. I checked to see if the connector had been damaged somehow but it's fine. Here's another picture of it all together mostly off the bike. The hall sensor is even sending temp info so i think the wires are all good going to the motor. This has me stumped.

 

[dancliff]

In your first photo, the hall sensor pins don't seem to be properly seated in the connector. It looks like they could short together and/or not make contact in the connector. I've had quite a few problem with this connector on my mac 10t kit, and I ended up removing the connector and soldering the wires together to eliminate future problems.

- Dancliff

 

[bmrcfreak]

I may be wrong but I didn't think you were supposed to connect lipos of different cell counts in series? You have a 3s and 6s connected in series?

 

[Yamamonger]

Dancliff
I took off the connector for the hall sensor plug because i wanted to make sure they were making a good connection, i know they could short but that was only for testing them. They will probably end up getting soldered together like you said. But they are working fine so i know they aren't the problem.
Bmrcfreak
Linking in series is fine for these batteries. If i were to run them in parallel it would be a problem because in parallel voltage has to be equal. For what I'm using them for they are fine though.

 

[Yamamonger]

I have run through all of the troubleshooting steps and think i have found the problem. The blue and green hall sensor wires (that match the blue and green phase wires) don't have any voltage under power and i have them connected directly to their wires coming from the controller (which do have power). Does this mean i need to open the motor to check the soldering or does it mean that the wires may have been cut somewhere? Any ideas?

 

[dnmun]

the hall sensor leads should toggle from about .3V to 4.4V when you rotate the wheel. the hall sensor lead will drop in voltage when the hall sensor turns on and sinks current from the controller. inside the controller there is a resistor and the micro detects the drop in voltage on the outer end of that resistor to signal when the phases are properly aligned.

 

[Yamamonger]

the hall sensor leads should toggle from about .3V to 4.4V when you rotate the wheel. the hall sensor lead will drop in voltage when the hall sensor turns on and sinks current from the controller. inside the controller there is a resistor and the micro detects the drop in voltage on the outer end of that resistor to signal when the phases are properly aligned.

You're completely right, as i rotate the wheel backward the voltages change so the hall sensors aren't bad. Im guessing that the alternation is to keep the motor pushing in a synchronized manner?
So I'm just thinking out loud here, but since the hall sensors are working fine I'm back to having no idea what's wrong. If the hall sensor CA3 and phase wires are all getting power then that proves that the controller is working and that it hasn't blown any FETs right? So where in the line am i not sending the signal from the throttle to the motor then, what tests could i run to check that i don't have any shorts (ebrake though ive checked it a million times) or anything else that could stop the motor from engaging? Any thoughts?
By the way, thank you for your help, I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciates your experience.

 

[Raged]

Is your throttle plugged into the controller or the CA?

 

[Yamamonger]

It's plugged into the CA 3. A step i haven't taken yet is to link it directly to the controller but i don't have the adapter and can't temporarily configure it till i get some supplies. But i have checked to make sure the throttle is working and it does just fine. In and out voltages change and the ca3 shows the throttle graphic. I've even tried the simple 3 switch throttle that comes as an auxiliary and that works to.

 

[bowlofsalad]

It's plugged into the CA 3. A step i haven't taken yet is to link it directly to the controller but i don't have the adapter and can't temporarily configure it till i get some supplies. But i have checked to make sure the throttle is working and it does just fine. In and out voltages change and the ca3 shows the throttle graphic. I've even tried the simple 3 switch throttle that comes as an auxiliary and that works to.

Maybe I am misunderstanding, you use the word, 'it' a lot. Are you saying you've never plugged the throttle into the controller? I'd give that a shot.

How do you have the cycleanalyst(CA) connected to your controller? You have to ask yourself how the throttle signal goes from the cycle analyst to the controller. That may be your issue.

Often, the setup is that there are 6 wires that go from a CA to the controller. If your CA is connected to your controller via these 6 wires, you might make sure the connection is good.

 

[Yamamonger]

The most frustrating thing about this is that I've got all the writing how it was when i did the initial test and everything worked. The ca3 had a black six pin connector going to it and it is hooked up the exact same as it was on my initial test, between that and it getting temp readings from the motor i have to think it's working :? . But I'm going to try hooking up the throttle directly anyway just to make sure. The only thing i did to change the ca3 was tto put in the number of cells, chemistry and voltage/amperage of my battery. Everything else is stock.

 

[bowlofsalad]

The most frustrating thing about this is that I've got all the writing how it was when i did the initial test and everything worked. The ca3 had a black six pin connector going to it and it is hooked up the exact same as it was on my initial test, between that and it getting temp readings from the motor i have to think it's working :? . But I'm going to try hooking up the throttle directly anyway just to make sure. The only thing i did to change the ca3 was tto put in the number of cells, chemistry and voltage/amperage of my battery. Everything else is stock.

What you changed likely solved the problem. It could have been the voltage cutoff feature of the cycle analyst. This might be automatically adjusted based on the settings you changed.

Have you read the manual? It might help.

 

[Yamamonger]

I set the max at 62v and the lvc at 54v to make sure that the lipos never get below 3.7v per cell. If you look at the vid i posted you can see pack voltage is at a comfortable 61.2. So I don't think it was that either. I spent a good 1/2 hour going through all the settings and haven't found anything amiss, and that was after reading the manual :?
I think I'm just going to have to wire the throttle directly to make certain that it's not the ca but I'm relatively certain it's not. I'll update my findings when i get it done.

 

[anpate]

Did you end up sorting this out? If you're using a Mac without the brakes I'm pretty sure that this single white wire needs to be connected to it's mate.

 

[dnmun]

set the LVC to 3V also. 3.7v is way high.

 

[JoyRiddin]

I agree 3.7v is way too high for a cut off. Voltage sag will cause you to cut off prematurely all the time. 3V would be much better. I have a similar setup and my controller had no 5V on the throttle. Justin has some good troubleshooting tips on his site. ebikes.ca . Check to see if you have voltage at the throttle. Mine had no 5V present anywhere on the controller.

rich

 

[TotalConfusion]

When i hooked my controller up on my bike everything on the CAV3 worked fine but my motor would not spin, After sending it back it turns out the controller was faulty yet it didnt effect anything except the motor spinning.

This is the email i recieved back from them but take in mind this isnt from EM3EV but the similar designed controller.

"Hey Wayne,


On July 21st we did attempt to repair your controller. From your email, it looks like you were not contacted! Apologies!


We spent 30minutes on the controller replacing multiple components to no avail. The controller will have to be replaced.


There's some kind of short somewhere on the device that continuously is blowing the linear regulator circuit."

Hope that helps

 

[Yamamonger]

Just wanted to update this since i finally got my fixed parts today. Several things have happened since this story was last updated. I had to send my controller and motor back to em3ev and found out that the hall sensor wires shorted from a static shock. That was my fault but i have to say Paul was excellent about taking care of me and hasn't left me for dead. It took a while but I got the parts today and got her up and running. Looks like I'll top out at 30mph and around 10 mile range with no pedaling at full speed. So i am very happy and looking forward to further tinkering and modification. Very satisfied customer.

 

[ScooterMan101]

I have the Mac 6 T , I tested mine once before the wheel was built up, put the hub onto the upside down bike and hooked it all up and it ran, ( I did not have the Cycle Analyst yet ) I am still waiting on parts for the bike so I have not hooked up everything again,
so

What do you mean the Hall Sensor Wires Shorted from a Static shock ?

How would that be your fault ? ( so I do not make the same mistake )

Thanks

Just wanted to update this since i finally got my fixed parts today. Several things have happened since this story was last updated. I had to send my controller and motor back to em3ev and found out that the hall sensor wires shorted from a static shock. That was my fault but i have to say Paul was excellent about taking care of me and hasn't left me for dead. It took a while but I got the parts today and got her up and running. Looks like I'll top out at 30mph and around 10 mile range with no pedaling at full speed. So i am very happy and looking forward to further tinkering and modification. Very satisfied customer.