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Hidden Power roller drive
- Thread starter veloman
- Start date
adrian_sm
1 MW
veloman said:
Yeah I was surpirsed too. Since it appears to have been available at least in the Korean market for more than a year.
There has been a bit of discussion over at this thread:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21186&start=30#p310442
Here are some highlights:
adrian_sm said:
adrian_sm said:Just got an email back with a few more details.
Lets start with the bad news.
Price: ~A$2,100 inclusive of installation in a bike store. Ouch!
Availability: ~ 2months
http://pedalix.com/ are just responsible for the European Market.
Looks like the actual manufacturer is in Korea: http://www.hiddenpower.co.kr
From what I can decipher from the korean site.
BLDC Motor, 300W Nominal, 600W peak
Controller: 80A controller, PAS
Battery: LiPo 14.8V 18Ah
Charger: 16.8V 2.5A, 100-240V, 50-60Hz
Belt drive reduction. Looks like a 2.5mm pitch belt from eye-balling it.
I still can't get over that price. Damn.
I might just have to make my own.
miles said:
adrian_sm said:Great find, didn't even think of looking.
Sometimes I love patents. They make it so much easier to work stuff out.
- Adrian
etard
100 kW
Great find Adrian, I can't believe they have sold any at that price. Damn!! I bet Matt would one off custom build you one with an Astro and 2Kw for $2200. 
adrian_sm
1 MW
That price was from one of the swedish guys that is planning to distribute in EU. It was their company that was present at Eurobike 2010. But since they gave me the 2 month availability, and their website is pretty lacking on details or prices, it doesn't sound like they have sold anything yet.
Still for a ball-park $2k is huge. I was expecting something close to $1k, hoping for something cheaper.
Would be intersting to find what they are going for in Korea.
Still for a ball-park $2k is huge. I was expecting something close to $1k, hoping for something cheaper.
Would be intersting to find what they are going for in Korea.
liveforphysics
100 TW
That motor is a hobbycity inrunner.
I've got a couple of them in blue, they were offered in red originally.
I've got a couple of them in blue, they were offered in red originally.
adrian_sm
1 MW
:lol: That's funny.
Here is a link to the lowest kV version. $46.20
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5158
- Adrian
Here is a link to the lowest kV version. $46.20
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5158
- Adrian
adrian_sm
1 MW
I had another email hit my inbox, giving some more details.
Anyone interested in becoming a distrbutor?
They were also nice enough to send me a brochure in English.
- Adrian
Anyone interested in becoming a distrbutor?
They were also nice enough to send me a brochure in English.
- Adrian
liveforphysics
100 TW
I like the 230-330w rating.
Those monster inrunners take +2kw with ease. But calling them 230-330w gets around the whole 350w rules many places have on ebikes.
They were smart to rate them so low.
Those monster inrunners take +2kw with ease. But calling them 230-330w gets around the whole 350w rules many places have on ebikes.
They were smart to rate them so low.
michaelplogue
10 kW
spinningmagnets said:
That is a very groovy idea! The only possible negative that I can see is that you 'might' get some uneven wear on your tire - as one side of your contact patch will be moving faster than the other. But this could be very minor, and likely not an issue.
I say build it!
liveforphysics
100 TW
Miles said:
That's the truth. It's gotta be about the worst value in performance LiPo out there. My 2.2Ah polyquest "30c" heli pack from 2 years ago was a performance joke, and only lasted maybe 100cycles of droopy voltage performance. For a pack that cost me as much as 6x hobbycity packs that each have better performance and longer life, it was a pretty disapointing buy. Maybe I just got a bad run of cells or something, but it soured me on polyquest.
adrian_sm
1 MW
Wow you're not wrong on the price of Polyquest LiPo.
Polyquest 4550mAh 4S 30C - 50C Lipoly (Version 2) $119.30 x4 = $477
Polyquest 4400mAh 4S 25C Lipoly (Version 2) $102.95 x4 = $412
You could easily get away with Turnigy packs at less than half of the price.
- Adrian
Polyquest 4550mAh 4S 30C - 50C Lipoly (Version 2) $119.30 x4 = $477
Polyquest 4400mAh 4S 25C Lipoly (Version 2) $102.95 x4 = $412
You could easily get away with Turnigy packs at less than half of the price.
- Adrian
adrian_sm
1 MW
But I must admit it is nice to see a nicely integrate LiPo pack with built in protection circuit, balancing, and a hard case.
Hillhater
100 TW
Odd that on the last page of the brochure they list a complete powered bike package with a suggested price of $1250 - $1500. ?
( with the bike its self worth $325 )
Cant say i like the ides of the drive on the tyre sidewall
Knowing how much load is required to get a slip free drive, i think it may have an effect on the tyre and spokes after a while.
( with the bike its self worth $325 )
Cant say i like the ides of the drive on the tyre sidewall
Knowing how much load is required to get a slip free drive, i think it may have an effect on the tyre and spokes after a while.
adrian_sm
1 MW
Hillhater said:Cant say i like the ides of the drive on the tyre sidewall
Of course you can just balance it out with two drives.
And what a shame you might just get twice the power out of it too.Probably worth getting a tyre with decent sidewalls though.
Hillhater
100 TW
How much $$$'s for the dual drive i wonder 
( do they make tyres with carbon fibre sidewalls ? :lol: )
Thought: why do they bother with the belt drive & rollers on that "sidewall drive" ?
They could have just put a roller on the motor shaft and simplified the whole device
( do they make tyres with carbon fibre sidewalls ? :lol: )
Thought: why do they bother with the belt drive & rollers on that "sidewall drive" ?
They could have just put a roller on the motor shaft and simplified the whole device
That motor is probably running over 10k rpms, so they still need to reduce it a bit.
I'm kind of amazed. I thought you guys here on ES were the forefront of ebike designs! I didn't know there was something out there like this.
But there's no way I'd pay that much money for it, and I doubt many riders will either.
My hobbycity order should be coming soon, time to get working on my own drive.
I'm kind of amazed. I thought you guys here on ES were the forefront of ebike designs! I didn't know there was something out there like this.
But there's no way I'd pay that much money for it, and I doubt many riders will either.
My hobbycity order should be coming soon, time to get working on my own drive.
Kepler
10 MW
This is nice piece of engineering and they must feel they have a resonable market especially considering they have gone to patent stage. If patents have been issued, they have probably spent $20K just on this alone. Then there is the development of the drive. I can undersand the need for such a high price to cover these costs.
Can anyone tell if it has any method of decoupling from the tire when turned off? Doesn't look like it to me. Also pressure on the side of tire is a bit scary. Perhaps you need special tires but a tire is not designed for a side load like this.
I have toyed with the idea of using a belt drive reduction to a roller but to date have wanted to keep things simple. However, I do see the advantages and in some cases, these advantages may outweigh the cost and complexity penalty. (designing madly :lol: )
Can anyone tell if it has any method of decoupling from the tire when turned off? Doesn't look like it to me. Also pressure on the side of tire is a bit scary. Perhaps you need special tires but a tire is not designed for a side load like this.
I have toyed with the idea of using a belt drive reduction to a roller but to date have wanted to keep things simple. However, I do see the advantages and in some cases, these advantages may outweigh the cost and complexity penalty. (designing madly :lol: )
Something that is not a Kenda.adrian_sm said:
liveforphysics
100 TW
I see a couple advantages of rolling on the sides of the tire.
It enables you to run any tread type you like, and still have smooth operation.
It enables the tire to roll through muddy surfaces, and not try to have a roller get traction between mud and rubber. This feature makes running a smooth roller possible with out suffering issues in gritty conditions, which should decrease friction losses and extend tire life.
It has a host of disadvantages as well.
Same thing with going with enclosed belt drive. You get to run higher RPM sealed I inrunner motors, which is great for muddy gritty conditions and long trouble free motor life. But, you gain more points of failure, and the belt will wear out at some point.
I personally like Keplers drive better, and think is a more elegant design in function. For a very muddy/gritty environment, I think the hidden power has a few advantages though.
It enables you to run any tread type you like, and still have smooth operation.
It enables the tire to roll through muddy surfaces, and not try to have a roller get traction between mud and rubber. This feature makes running a smooth roller possible with out suffering issues in gritty conditions, which should decrease friction losses and extend tire life.
It has a host of disadvantages as well.
Same thing with going with enclosed belt drive. You get to run higher RPM sealed I inrunner motors, which is great for muddy gritty conditions and long trouble free motor life. But, you gain more points of failure, and the belt will wear out at some point.
I personally like Keplers drive better, and think is a more elegant design in function. For a very muddy/gritty environment, I think the hidden power has a few advantages though.
yoyoman
1 kW
Of all places, a Hidden Power bike showed up on craigslist. If the battery+motor is only 5 pounds, the bike is 38 pounds! Why put such a lightweight setup on a heavy bike.
yoyoman
1 kW
seller quoted me $850 for the motor + battery
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