High power RC motor and drive unit production

[deecanio]

ok at least it makes sense now - so i really, need to reduce from 7300 to 80rpm over 3 stages, 2 in the reduction box and 1 from the box to the chainring?
If thats the case doesn't that mean i eed like a 91-1 reduction? i wont get that surely?
if the best im going to do is 3-1 at stage 3 (gb to chainring) then matts gb needs 2 x 6-1 reductions is that right?

 

[recumpence]

C'mon D,

Necesity is the mother of invention and Complication is the mother of Aggrivation.

Matt

 

[deecanio]

hehehehe.
yes indeed you are correct Matt, but my brain hurts sooo much, it's not been this bad since school and thats probably why i failed so miserably there too :lol: attention deficit i think.
If those numbers are right i would need 1st stage 6-1 2nd stage 5-1 2rd stage 3-1 ? 6x5x3= 90
what's the smallest size box you could do with those ratios and the pletenberg?? ORRRRRR - what size is the pulley 11t (you said thats the smallest) and what size is a 60t - same question but for the secondary sprockets?
this is a necessity Matt!!!!


D

 

[recumpence]

No worries, believe it or not, I only have 2 years of high-school. I am almost 100% self taught on all things technical. :wink:

A 70 tooth pulley measures a tiny bit over 4 inches in diameter.

My guess is your drive will be about 7 inches long by about 6 inches high folded up and about 4 inches wide.

Matt

 

[Miles]

D,

Why not go for a larger chainring for the motor drive? 13t to 52 will give you 4:1

 

[deecanio]

huh, i have a 52t on my road crank at the mo? if it will help with keeping the GB smaller im all for it?
Matt, is there anyway to compact that up to about 7" long X 4" high X 4" wide - it seems to me that there is an awful lot of space between the pulleys that could be removed, can they be slotted alongside each other i mean like overlapping - this would be much easier on my Gb as i want a box section with no folding rqd?


Cheers,

D

 

[Miles]

huh, i have a 52t on my road crank at the mo? if it will help with keeping the GB smaller im all for it?
Cheers,
D

Might be easier than 6:1 on the first stage...

 

[deecanio]

yes indeed Miles, actually is there any reason i couldn't use a couple of 52's ? it would keep the reduction 1:1 at the crank wouldn't it?
i could mount the box under the downtube and it could be any size but im really after cramming it in a small space i have behind the seatpost - i think it can be done which is why im trying to get a bottom line on what reduction i need so i can ask matt what sizes the sprockets then desing the box to accomadate that size of sprocket/pulley.


Cheers,

D

 

[Miles]

There is no reduction at the crank.

You can make the driver chainwheel whatever size you like.

 

[deecanio]

thats it im fried
of course there isn't, whatever the size they revolve at the same rpm right?
im frazzled today Miles, im onsite and "oncall" 8am-10pm - been here 10 hours now and not a single phone call
still lots of time to study and plan, needed too.
there's a 55t road chainring so if theres an 11t for the output shaft i could get 5-1 at the crank, even better, gives me more chance of the gb fitting.

 

[Miles]

Looking on the bright side..... you're being paid for time researching your hobby

 

[deecanio]

yes indeed - i like those apples
well today, and the other 20-30 hours last couple of weeks i've been trying to work it out :lol:
how does this math look to you?

7300rpm

stage 1 4-1 belt
stage 2 4-1 chain
stage 3 5-1 chain

7300/4 = 1825/4 = 456/5 = 91.2 ????? good pedal cadence??
matt should be able to make a very small 4-1/4-1 box i would think?

 

[Miles]

Yes, your math is fine

 

[deecanio]

excellent - gives me a total reduction of 90-1 pretty damn good - now watch someone point out a flaw in the rpm of the motor math
If matt sais the smallest pulley is 11t (im hoping for #25 sprockets too) that would be doable in a confined space i would think?
Miles, would you give a thought to the most compact way that the motor and dual stage could be built, im thinking simple box with pulleys overlapping - do you know a better way?
the motor is only 75mm wide, i think it can be done in a very tight space?

 

[Miles]

80 to 1 :lol:

 

[deecanio]

:lol:
ok 80 is the best i can do if the rpm is right according to JRH calc X 0.8v then im damn well set 8)
right how small can i make the gb and keep it workable - i feel a drawing coming on, btw that software is awesome, im rubbish with it, but it's awesome.
i should have just called you today Miles thx for helping me out, again!!

 

[Miles]

right how small can i make the gb and keep it workable

I'll let Matt handle this, I'm whacked... :lol:

 

[deecanio]

yes sorry Miles - you've been a star today helping meout and keeping me company thank you. - maybe we should move todays posts to my thread as they're all about my problems
again thx miles, have a good evening.

 

[etard]

No, leave it here.... Your "whats on first gear reduction, who's on second gear reduction" is both entertaining and informative. Well at least it kills the monotony until Matt posts more blingy pics.

D,
I'm not quite visualizing your setup (Kona) folded up behind the seatpost, but driving the cranks??

 

[deecanio]

Hi etard,

entertaining huh it's been a pita for the last two weeks, i can't sleep, i can't eat, all i keep thinking about is this damn bike .
well mines not going to fold at all - i'm hoping Matt will take pity on me and do me a special :wink:
im drawing it now and i'll post it up in a bit.
What im hoping is that i can get the motor and the GB mounted to the seatpost in a box section.
the gb will be 2 stage and then the output sprocket will connect to the freewheeling crank, then on a second chainring it will connect to the rear cassete.
im going to collate all the info i can and stick it all on one "plan" drawing, power,ratios,actual products as and when i decide which - once i've done all that i'll drop to my knee's and beg Matt to make it :lol:
then if i get that far i'll show joz the plan and then beg him to reconfigure my pack to 50v and help me connect up (read connect for me) all the rc controls.
the aim is to put all the electrics and i mean everything in the box - only the throttle cable/db cable and motor cables will be external (want to make it water proof eventually).
i don't see any problems with my plan except the small space im trying to cram the motor and gb into - but until i know what i want reduction wise i cant ask Matt to measure up to see if it can be done.
The bike is having a standard 10mm axel hub laced next week at some point so then i'll pick it up bring it home and if i have the minimum dimensions of the gb by then i can make a mock up in cardboard to see if it will fit.

IF it doesnt fit, ill get another puma (jk)
Stinky ftw!!!!


Cheers,

D

 

[GGoodrum]

There are two different Cyclone setups. For the 350/500/650W setups, there is a 1st stage reduction at the motor and the output shaft of this reduction drives the chain directly. For the 1000/3000W versions, they use a totally different setup. The kit comes with a two chainring crankset, a 36T sprocket for driving the rear hub, and a larger 44T sprocket that the 1000W/3000W motor drives directly, with a 6T sprocket. The max rpm of the motor, at around 50V, is about 3000. The 44T/6T reduction is 7.33:1, so the max 3000 rpm gets reduced down to about 400 rpm at the crankset, which is pretty high. I changed the rear hub sprocket to the largest I could find that would fit on the three-speed hub, which was 23T. If I used the standard 36T chainring that comes with the kit, the top speeds in each gear on this 20" bike would have been 29 mph, in 1st, 39 mph in 2nd and 52 mph in 3rd. Knowing I wouldn't ever need anywhere near this much high end in a 20" folding bike, I decided to swap out the 36T chainring for one that was smaller, which would not only get the top speed down, but would also increase the low-end torque. the smallest I could find was a 24T, which I modified to fit the bolt circle on the Cyclone 44T chainring. This provided something closer to a 1:1 ratio, front-to-back, and got the top end numbers down to 19. 26 and 34 mph, respectively.

It did also provide a huge torque boost, almost too much. Unless I'm stopped at the bottom of a steep hill, I really don't need 1st gear. Starting in 2nd works fine, most of the time, and then I quickly shift into 3rd. If I'm going up a steep hill, downshifting to 2nd allows me to take pretty much any grade without having to slow down much. If I had it to do over again, though, I think I would leave the 36T stock chainring alone, and just change the rear one from the 18t one that came with the hub, to the 23T larger one. This would still allow for plenty of torque. The other problem with switching is that with my 24T/23T arrangement, the pedals are pretty useless except in 3rd gear, and even then it is like a low-end "granny" gear.

Ideally, if you want to pedal too, you want the motor reduction to get the speed down to something comparable to the rider's maximum cadence, if you are driving the front crankset.

-- Gary

 

[deecanio]

Hi Gary,

thank you for posting that info, it's exactly the real world experience i need.
I do plan to drive the cranset and poor Miles has been trying to help me out all day.
im going with the second type of cyclone setup (two chainrings) however the dual stage GB will be 4-1 then 4-1, after that i will have a 5-1 to the crank giving me a cadence at the chainring of 91rpm :lol: im hoping that this helps me pedal too but still leaves me wayyyy enough torque on motor only?
i'll have to read through your post again Gary as im totally fried after a very long day - i'll tuck into it in the morning and hopefully tomorrow night i'll get my drawing up so we can all disect it and get it right.
my setup will be very very similair to yours was but with a pletty and reduction gb.


Cheers,

D

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

I got my 40 series X-Era outrunner from CNCAdict today! Woo-Hoo!

This thing is absolutely beautiful! Very good work, Man. I will post some pics of the motor (on and off my drive) tonight or tomorrow.

I can honestly say, other than my Plettenberg motors, this is the highest quality outrunner I have ever had and I have had A LOT of different motors.

For the money, this thing is beautiful. I cannot wait to run it.

Matt

Great news!

Please let us know how it runs!

When do you expect your 60 series prototype so you can let us know how it performs?

Okay, for my first order, I need a single-stage version, with a 6:1 reduction using the #25 chain setup you are using for the secondary in the two-stage version. If possible, I'd like the larger sprocket, on the output shaft, to have a oneway or freewheel installed, but this is not a showstopper for me, as I am not so worried about extra drag while pedaling, mainly because pedaling alone will only be done when all else fails and besides, the Neu 2215/P62 setup doesn't have a lot of cogging/drag.

On the output shaft, I need two of the custom 1/2"-1.375" freewheel adapters you have mentioned trying to fabricate, one FW that will be driven by the crank, and then one fixed cog that will drive the rear hub. For the motor sprocket, the output shaft from the P62 is 12mm. I think I told you before it was 14mm, but it is actually 12mm. The mounting bolt pattern on the P62 is a 60mm circle.

Also, have you thought about maybe providing some of mounting tab on the motor plate for an HV110 controller? That would make for a nice and tidy package.

-- Gary

Matt is planning a FW with a small sprocket on the output end of the shaft. We want a FW with a large sprocket on the input end of the shaft. Matt (or someone else) might come up with a better solution but I have a solution that will work. We can mount a FW on the input end of the shaft, using an adaptor. Then drill out the center of the large #25 sprocket so that it fits the shoulder of the FW, then bolt it to the FW.

Matt got better results with the HV110 mounted adjacent to the batteries, rather than adjacent to the motor.

I need a 2 stage with about 22:1 (not sure exactly right now) with the same or very similar shaft setup.

 

[CNCAddict]

Well, all the parts are hot off the lathe. Unless there is an unexpected delay I'll have one of them spinning by the end of the week. Just need to do some milling machine work tomorrow and then stick all the bits together in the right order

P.S. This motor is about 2x the power of the Astro 120 sitting next to it and hopefully a lot more reliable.

 

[Miles]

Nice work.

What happened to the Astro? Just magnet bonding? I've never taken mine apart...