High power RC motor and drive unit production
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
Matt will be grinding my eno's teeth off so that it is slightly smaller overall so that it fits into my 60t pulley, you dont really need the teeth anyway if your using it for a freewheel crank either, its easier to machine adapters to something round than toothed also i suspect which will help with crank setup.
Also it looks much better imo, more a specialist freewheel adapter than freewheel sprocket.
as miles said the eno 22t has the best slots for fixing adapters too but the teeth are not required really, unless your actually using it for a chain of course.
cheers,
D
Also it looks much better imo, more a specialist freewheel adapter than freewheel sprocket.
as miles said the eno 22t has the best slots for fixing adapters too but the teeth are not required really, unless your actually using it for a chain of course.
cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
Yes, that is correct.
For output to the rear wheel, you would want the smallest tooth count you can find (I think 16 tooth is about the limit). The 22 tooth is for either FW crank setup, or recessing the FW into the pulley. That mod (FW pulley mod) would be very rarely needed.
Matt
For output to the rear wheel, you would want the smallest tooth count you can find (I think 16 tooth is about the limit). The 22 tooth is for either FW crank setup, or recessing the FW into the pulley. That mod (FW pulley mod) would be very rarely needed.
Matt
AussieJester
1 TW
So the RC motor isnt back feed by the front sprocket when you pedal and not use the motor is my guess? I would asume without it, if you pedal you would turn the rc motor over?
Wouldn't a freewheel do the same thing? Are you planning on a belt drive? Can that handle the torque?? I am confusedAussieJester said:
Question for my project:
I am looking for 40-45 mph top speed with the motor David is working on. I need to figure out the freewheel and drive sprocket to use. I want to use a single stage unit.
Its going to be a left side dive with the sprocket bolted to a disc hub.
Would a basic 13t freewheel be suitable for this project?
http://www.bikeman.com/FW1213.html
Or would something like this be required.
http://www.bikeman.com/WIND-FWENO16.html
AussieJester
1 TW
nomad85 said:
I was just guessing matey... and it is a freewheel they are turning the teeth off
recumpence
1 GW
Yes a simple freewheel does the same thing. However, D is running a belt drive to his cranks (freewheeling cranks) from the drive unit. So, he needs a pulley on the drive system output shaft while retaining freewheel capability. The easiest way to achieve this is the put the freewheel into large pulley. Nothing a few hours of machining cannot accomplish.
Also, this allows the use of a much lower ratio from drive unit to cranks than a simple 16 tooth freewheel allows because a freewheel mechanism requires a minimum smount of room for the ratchet system. That dictates a certain tooth count to clear the cogs. With this setup, a very small diameter pulley can be used on the output shaft, thereby allowing a lower ratio to the cranks. :wink:
Matt
Also, this allows the use of a much lower ratio from drive unit to cranks than a simple 16 tooth freewheel allows because a freewheel mechanism requires a minimum smount of room for the ratchet system. That dictates a certain tooth count to clear the cogs. With this setup, a very small diameter pulley can be used on the output shaft, thereby allowing a lower ratio to the cranks. :wink:
Matt
etard
100 kW
In hindsight Matt, would it be more DIY friendly for the common man to just drill and tap holes in the teeth and put bolts through each or every other tooth? I am thinking I could do one stage reduction with a belt drive like D's but I hope to save a little money on the freewheel. I found a source for cheap Suntour freewheels that I hope are a step up from the Shimano. I'm getting one tomorrow, I will let you guys know what I think.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
22t has slots which are handy for bolting:
http://www.bikeman.com/WIND-FWENO22.html
Other models (less teeth - no slots):
http://www.bikeman.com/WIND-FWENO16.html
The White Eno are the best. Designed specifically for high torque single speed applications. The cheap Odyssey is $48 less. I can see saving money by not going with a Pletti (saving hundreds of dollars) but IMO saving $48 dollars by using a cheap FW for a high powered system is not a good idea.
I think it will be easier to bolt through existing slots of the 22t and grind off the teeth.
Will the belt drive be strong enough for the second stage?
Doesn't the pulley still need to clear the cogs (picture? ).
22t has slots which are handy for bolting:
http://www.bikeman.com/WIND-FWENO22.html
Other models (less teeth - no slots):
http://www.bikeman.com/WIND-FWENO16.html
nomad85 said:
etard said:
The White Eno are the best. Designed specifically for high torque single speed applications. The cheap Odyssey is $48 less. I can see saving money by not going with a Pletti (saving hundreds of dollars) but IMO saving $48 dollars by using a cheap FW for a high powered system is not a good idea.
etard said:
I think it will be easier to bolt through existing slots of the 22t and grind off the teeth.
recumpence said:Yes a simple freewheel does the same thing. However, D is running a belt drive to his cranks (freewheeling cranks) from the drive unit. So, he needs a pulley on the drive system output shaft while retaining freewheel capability. The easiest way to achieve this is the put the freewheel into large pulley. Nothing a few hours of machining cannot accomplish.
Will the belt drive be strong enough for the second stage?
recumpence said:
Doesn't the pulley still need to clear the cogs (picture?
).Hi Mitch,All,
Well it's been covered but just to ram it home........... the ENO 22t is the best freewheel to use if you are just wanting the freewheel mechanism and not bothered how many teeth it has, as many have said the 22t has the marvelous slots that make mounting a chainring a LOT easier than trying to drill through teeth on the smaller ENO freewheels, really, unless you have a machine shop how would you drill out a smaller one with any accuracy?
Also as Mitch said the ENO is by far and away the best freewheel out there (read sheldon browns review) - you could save some money for sure with other brands but once you've replaced two or even three of them you'll realise you should have bought an eno in the first place, tried and trusted, expensive? yes, worth it? definately yes!!!
to explain my drive, im using a single stage drive with a 5mm htd belt 12-60t, because i am not using a freewheel at the output shaft of the gb i need the freewheel set into the 60t sprocket so that i dont backdrive the motor when pedaling (this is why the teeth are removed so that the eno fits inside the diameter of the pulley.
The reason im not using a freewheel on the output shaft is im going for a secondry belt from the output shaft of the gb to the cranks, therefore i will have a fixed pulley on the output shaft not a freewheel as normal.
the belt drive im going to try for the gb output to the cranks is going to be 8mm pitch as opposed to the 5mm pitch for the gb - we are hoping this will be fine and i have faith being as miles has this as his final drive with no apparent issues.
it should make for a nice quiet setup with smooth power delivery, i'll still be using the standard chain and gearing as my final drive system.
Hope this clarifies why we are taking off the teeth for my project,and why we are all using the eno freewheels as far as i know
belt drive baby, belt drive!!!!!!!! think of it as a quality quiet cyclone setup only with MUCH bigger balls
**EDIT** dammit, thinking about it now i SHOULD have shipped both my freewheels to matt my crank one will have teeth, unless i can get them ground off locally, bummer
Cheers,
D
Well it's been covered but just to ram it home........... the ENO 22t is the best freewheel to use if you are just wanting the freewheel mechanism and not bothered how many teeth it has, as many have said the 22t has the marvelous slots that make mounting a chainring a LOT easier than trying to drill through teeth on the smaller ENO freewheels, really, unless you have a machine shop how would you drill out a smaller one with any accuracy?
Also as Mitch said the ENO is by far and away the best freewheel out there (read sheldon browns review) - you could save some money for sure with other brands but once you've replaced two or even three of them you'll realise you should have bought an eno in the first place, tried and trusted, expensive? yes, worth it? definately yes!!!
to explain my drive, im using a single stage drive with a 5mm htd belt 12-60t, because i am not using a freewheel at the output shaft of the gb i need the freewheel set into the 60t sprocket so that i dont backdrive the motor when pedaling (this is why the teeth are removed so that the eno fits inside the diameter of the pulley.
The reason im not using a freewheel on the output shaft is im going for a secondry belt from the output shaft of the gb to the cranks, therefore i will have a fixed pulley on the output shaft not a freewheel as normal.
the belt drive im going to try for the gb output to the cranks is going to be 8mm pitch as opposed to the 5mm pitch for the gb - we are hoping this will be fine and i have faith being as miles has this as his final drive with no apparent issues.
it should make for a nice quiet setup with smooth power delivery, i'll still be using the standard chain and gearing as my final drive system.
Hope this clarifies why we are taking off the teeth for my project,and why we are all using the eno freewheels as far as i know
belt drive baby, belt drive!!!!!!!! think of it as a quality quiet cyclone setup only with MUCH bigger balls
**EDIT** dammit, thinking about it now i SHOULD have shipped both my freewheels to matt
my crank one will have teeth, unless i can get them ground off locally, bummer Cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
D is correct.
One thing to stress here;
Yes other freewheels can be used for those using one on the output of the drive unit. Heck, on my recumbent, I have pulled 7,000 watts through a cheapo Dicta $14 FW without issues. The problems arise in the use of a freewheel in a belt pulley because the belt requires tension. That tension is horrible on a cheap freewheel. A chain does not have tension while freewheeling. Also, for FW cranks, a high end freewheel is needed because of the huge torque of a 175 pound man standing on the cranks with all his might. :wink:
Also, yes you could drill and tap the teeth. Kind of a pain, though. The screws would have to be very small diamter and the teeth are very tough. I would think the tap would break off. For one of my projects, I will be welding a steel adaptor plate to a 18 tooth FW. I will weld the tooth tips each to the adaptor. That is easier than drying to tap into those hard teeth!
Matt
One thing to stress here;
Yes other freewheels can be used for those using one on the output of the drive unit. Heck, on my recumbent, I have pulled 7,000 watts through a cheapo Dicta $14 FW without issues. The problems arise in the use of a freewheel in a belt pulley because the belt requires tension. That tension is horrible on a cheap freewheel. A chain does not have tension while freewheeling. Also, for FW cranks, a high end freewheel is needed because of the huge torque of a 175 pound man standing on the cranks with all his might. :wink:
Also, yes you could drill and tap the teeth. Kind of a pain, though. The screws would have to be very small diamter and the teeth are very tough. I would think the tap would break off. For one of my projects, I will be welding a steel adaptor plate to a 18 tooth FW. I will weld the tooth tips each to the adaptor. That is easier than drying to tap into those hard teeth!
Matt
If the adapter is bolted to the outside, the teeth will hardly be visible...deecanio said:**EDIT** dammit, thinking about it now i SHOULD have shipped both my freewheels to matt
Hi Miles,
yes indeed my friend you are correct.
i plan to have the chainring nearest the crank arm then the eno then the gates 80t on the inside if i can get away with it - it will depend on how the cdrive sits really, i may need to swap them around if it's too wide, no biggy.
By the way Miles, i have mailed both firms in a juvenile manner asking for prices on the cdrive 80t and the dual flange 14t pulleys, both haven't responded i'm hoping they will sell me single units or i'm kind of scuppered - have you bought anything from these guys yourself at all?
My cranks from tarty and my eno are both dispatched so i really need the cdrive to plan my mount and measure up.Once Gary gives me the sp on the hacker i can pick a motor and then my gb will be done too - woohooo.
Cheers,
D
yes indeed my friend you are correct.
i plan to have the chainring nearest the crank arm then the eno then the gates 80t on the inside if i can get away with it - it will depend on how the cdrive sits really, i may need to swap them around if it's too wide, no biggy.
By the way Miles, i have mailed both firms in a juvenile manner asking for prices on the cdrive 80t and the dual flange 14t pulleys, both haven't responded
i'm hoping they will sell me single units or i'm kind of scuppered - have you bought anything from these guys yourself at all?My cranks from tarty and my eno are both dispatched
so i really need the cdrive to plan my mount and measure up.Once Gary gives me the sp on the hacker i can pick a motor and then my gb will be done too - woohooo.Cheers,
D
No, I've never dealt with them. It says on the CDrive site that you can buy a sample kit - no idea of the price, though... If you have no joy with them, David (CNCAddict) bought pulleys from the makers of the IXI bike (they use the CDrive), so that's another possibility. Also, never say that you only want a single unit - say you want a sample for testing but that you are prepared to pay for it
yes will do thanks Miles, i felt like a 16yr old applying for the first ever job............
"please employ me i would really really love to work for you and i'm soooo committed blah blah blah :lol:
i knew i should have asked your advice first
Cheers,
D
"please employ me i would really really love to work for you and i'm soooo committed blah blah blah :lol:
i knew i should have asked your advice first
Cheers,
D
Hangdog98
10 W
I had one of those Mercedes bikes. The drive is made by THOR of Germany and it uses a toothed V belt friction drive. It was terrible.The teeth allowed the belt to make the tight curve around the driven pulley. I swapped it out for a chain and sprockets.
etard
100 kW
Matt,
You cleared it up, as always . Its the tension that kills freewheels when used inside a belt pulley. I have found a 13 tooth freewheel made by Odyssey
It says this will only work on the small side of a flip flop hub. Would this be an option on the output of the drive, or is it a smaller diameter freewheel threading?
You cleared it up, as always
. Its the tension that kills freewheels when used inside a belt pulley. I have found a 13 tooth freewheel made by Odyssey
It says this will only work on the small side of a flip flop hub. Would this be an option on the output of the drive, or is it a smaller diameter freewheel threading?
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