recumpence
1 GW
Yes that FW only works on the smaller thread. So, it is a no-go. 
Matt
Matt
High power RC motor and drive unit production
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Matt,
Sorry for the late response. The small company I do contract work for just signed a contract which depends on me coding and testing a large program with a very aggressive schedule.
I also ran into some issues with my "Series Drive" plan. I decided the best bet for the series drive I am hoping to use will be to mount a jackshaft, with the required sprockets, on the swingarm between the chainring and the rear sprocket. Then connect the single stage version of your drive to the jackshaft which would give me a second stage reduction.
My original plan was to try to mount the jackshaft directly above the chainstay between the Bottom Bracket and the rear sprocket. I knew it wouldn't fit but thought if moving the rear wheel back 3" or 4" max would work I would do it. When I measured it I discovered I need would need to move the wheel back 6.1" with a 26" tire or 5.1" with a 24" tire which I think is too much (don't think its a good idea to increase the wheelbase that much due to the suspension and doing it properly will be more complex and expensive).
I always thought there was a very good chance that wouldn't work so my plan b was to mount the jackshaft above the chainring. Before I even tried that I realized
that the options are very limited because the chain from the rear hub will need to clear the chainstay (the bottom run of chain is under the chainstay so the options for running that chain to a location above the chainring where the chain doesn't hit the chainstay are limited).
So my 2 current options are:
1. When I have the time see if there is a way to mount a jackshaft above the chainring. Due to the limited time I have right now this might take a couple of weeks to work out. If it will work I will be ready for a single stage version of your drive.
2. If it won't work (which is seeming more likely) I need to figure out how to connect to the crank (most likely on a different bike) with a dual stage version of the drive. If I do it via a dual stage I should probably wait until the kv of David's motor is decided so I can order a drive with the correct reduction.
So the bottom line is I will eventually order either a single or dual stage drive but it could be a while. If you want a payment or deposit let me know.
A few days ago I spent about 30 minutes cobbling together a simple drive model to help determine how it will fit. I was not sure what size to use for the big pulley and sprocket. I think I will need (depends on Davids motor specs) between 12:1 and 16:1. I used 3 3/4" for the pulley and 4" for the sprocket. I am attaching a picture in case the idea helps someone else.
recumpence said:
Sorry for the late response. The small company I do contract work for just signed a contract which depends on me coding and testing a large program with a very aggressive schedule.
I also ran into some issues with my "Series Drive" plan. I decided the best bet for the series drive I am hoping to use will be to mount a jackshaft, with the required sprockets, on the swingarm between the chainring and the rear sprocket. Then connect the single stage version of your drive to the jackshaft which would give me a second stage reduction.
My original plan was to try to mount the jackshaft directly above the chainstay between the Bottom Bracket and the rear sprocket. I knew it wouldn't fit but thought if moving the rear wheel back 3" or 4" max would work I would do it. When I measured it I discovered I need would need to move the wheel back 6.1" with a 26" tire or 5.1" with a 24" tire which I think is too much (don't think its a good idea to increase the wheelbase that much due to the suspension and doing it properly will be more complex and expensive).
I always thought there was a very good chance that wouldn't work so my plan b was to mount the jackshaft above the chainring. Before I even tried that I realized
that the options are very limited because the chain from the rear hub will need to clear the chainstay (the bottom run of chain is under the chainstay so the options for running that chain to a location above the chainring where the chain doesn't hit the chainstay are limited).So my 2 current options are:
1. When I have the time see if there is a way to mount a jackshaft above the chainring. Due to the limited time I have right now this might take a couple of weeks to work out. If it will work I will be ready for a single stage version of your drive.
2. If it won't work (which is seeming more likely) I need to figure out how to connect to the crank (most likely on a different bike) with a dual stage version of the drive. If I do it via a dual stage I should probably wait until the kv of David's motor is decided so I can order a drive with the correct reduction.
So the bottom line is I will eventually order either a single or dual stage drive but it could be a while. If you want a payment or deposit let me know.
A few days ago I spent about 30 minutes cobbling together a simple drive model to help determine how it will fit. I was not sure what size to use for the big pulley and sprocket. I think I will need (depends on Davids motor specs) between 12:1 and 16:1. I used 3 3/4" for the pulley and 4" for the sprocket. I am attaching a picture in case the idea helps someone else.
Hi Mitch,
your drive wont be very good im afraid Mitch, your concept isnt bad but your choice of materials leaves a lot to be desired :lol:
why don't you post us a few good shots of your swingarm - we may look differently at the problems and come up with something?
cheers,
D
your drive wont be very good im afraid Mitch, your concept isnt bad but your choice of materials leaves a lot to be desired :lol:
why don't you post us a few good shots of your swingarm - we may look differently at the problems and come up with something?
cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
Single stage can go as low as 6 to 1 in the drive itself. However, that limits the wattage handling to roughly 2kw due to minimal tooth coverage on the small motor pulley. As for the ratio down to the rear sprocket, I am not sure about that.
Matt
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
Rim brakes are generally fine as long as you have a disc on the front.
My recumbent has the stock catilever rim brakes in the rear. They are terrible compared to my disc brake. But, I rarely use the rear brake anyway. I figure it is there mainly for emergency purposes if my front brake fails. For that it is fine.
On my #2 bike I am using disc front and rear even though that bike will never see anything over 30mph. However, the disc brake in the rear is for regulation of wheelies. :wink:
Matt
My recumbent has the stock catilever rim brakes in the rear. They are terrible compared to my disc brake. But, I rarely use the rear brake anyway. I figure it is there mainly for emergency purposes if my front brake fails. For that it is fine.
On my #2 bike I am using disc front and rear even though that bike will never see anything over 30mph. However, the disc brake in the rear is for regulation of wheelies. :wink:
Matt
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi D,
For my first version I copied Matt's original Ebox design using gears instead of belts/chains and it worked fine :lol: :
I figured I could copy his new design using similar materials. But that was a model. For the production version I plan to upgrade from Pine to Locust or Oak with Schedule 40 PVC shafts.
Thanks! As soon as I have the time to check it closely I'll do that. Either with a request of help or hopefully with a proposed solution.
deecanio said:
For my first version I copied Matt's original Ebox design using gears instead of belts/chains and it worked fine :lol: :
I figured I could copy his new design using similar materials. But that was a model. For the production version I plan to upgrade from Pine to Locust or Oak with Schedule 40 PVC shafts.
deecanio said:
Thanks! As soon as I have the time to check it closely I'll do that. Either with a request of help or hopefully with a proposed solution.
AussieJester
1 TW
MitchJi said:For my first version I copied Matt's original Ebox design using gears instead of belts/chains and it worked fine :lol: :
I figured I could copy his new design using similar materials. But that was a model. For the production version I plan to upgrade from Pine to Locust or Oak with Schedule 40 PVC shafts.
You might want to look into this advanced product called MDF it has fantastic strength, is impervious to water, doesn't rust and is easily worked with
hand tools all in all though its a cracker design and i think Mr Recupence might just have some competition on his hands
recumpence
1 GW
Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :wink:
Matt
Matt
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
Sorry if this seems like a foolish question but why not use V-belts for the second stage and/or between the drive and the cranks?
Gary posted that someone uses V-belts with Etek Motors and there is some slippage at very high power levels which provides some protection for the Nexus hubs.
Properly set up would it slip too much or could it work like Matt's slipper clutch?
Sorry if this seems like a foolish question but why not use V-belts for the second stage and/or between the drive and the cranks?
Gary posted that someone uses V-belts with Etek Motors and there is some slippage at very high power levels which provides some protection for the Nexus hubs.
Properly set up would it slip too much or could it work like Matt's slipper clutch?
recumpence
1 GW
Not a bad question at all!
The issue with V belts is efficiency. Their efficiency is very low.
I have recieved motors and mounting specs for a number of customer's drives just today. I will be at the shop Monday machining face plates!
Matt
The issue with V belts is efficiency. Their efficiency is very low.
I have recieved motors and mounting specs for a number of customer's drives just today. I will be at the shop Monday machining face plates!
Matt
recumpence
1 GW
OK, I am nearly finished with a couple drives. I have done face plate machining, shaft manufacturing, bearing seating, and I am now doing final assembly.
For those who want a drive, there are still a few available. Gary will have his pretty soon. The next few will trickle out as I recieve the remaining bits (special belts, pulleys, etc).
Matt
For those who want a drive, there are still a few available. Gary will have his pretty soon. The next few will trickle out as I recieve the remaining bits (special belts, pulleys, etc).
Matt
voicecoils
1 MW
recumpence said:
We need photos!
The desire for a 3rd project: lightweight non-hub lipo road bike is strong, but the Aussie dollar is week
8)
recumpence
1 GW
I can send you a drive and wait on the exchange rate to improve. :wink:
Matt
Matt
I still want one, but I need to figure out the numbers for gearing.recumpence said:
I think I will need 11 or 12:1 total reduction assuming a 135 kv on the motor @ 48v. Is this doable with a single stage drive? You said 6:1 was possible within the drive, then I would need 2:1 to the wheel right? I would like to use a nice 16t eno free wheel for the output, and would like a little more than the 2kw potential the 6:1 reduction allows if possible. What should I do???
I am working on getting the wheel put together, I plan to use a Sun Rhyno Lite rim with a surly singlespeed disc hub for left side drive.
recumpence
1 GW
I would say it would be best to go with 5 to 1 ratio, then 2.5 to 1 to the wheel. That would give you the power handling you need with the reduction you are looking for.
What part of Indiana are you in? I live an hour horthwest of Chicago.
Matt
What part of Indiana are you in? I live an hour horthwest of Chicago.
Matt
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Matt,
Can North American customers also buy now and pay when the Aussie exchange rate improves ?
recumpence said:
Can North American customers also buy now and pay when the Aussie exchange rate improves
?
voicecoils
1 MW
recumpence said:
That's a great offer, but if you're serious, you could be waiting quite a while
recumpence
1 GW
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Matt,
I didn't realize that 1900's steam engines had that high a quality of workmanship. 8)
What is the overall width?
Too bad the pulley shoulder and the FW adaptor shoulder add so much to the width. Any way to reduce the width of the pulley shoulder?
Somewhere (D's build thread?) the topic of keyed shafts came up. I wondered if 1/2" shafts with key slots were available ready made:
http://www.robotcombat.com/store_shafts.html
http://www.trukey.com/
http://www.huyett.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_50
Length's 3" to 5" $7.76:
http://kmac-distribution.com/shafts/index.htm
http://www.leelinear.com/products/
http://www.leelinear.com/products/shafting.aspx
Their supports look a lot like your mounts:
I didn't realize that 1900's steam engines had that high a quality of workmanship. 8)
What is the overall width?
Too bad the pulley shoulder and the FW adaptor shoulder add so much to the width. Any way to reduce the width of the pulley shoulder?
Somewhere (D's build thread?) the topic of keyed shafts came up. I wondered if 1/2" shafts with key slots were available ready made:
http://www.robotcombat.com/store_shafts.html
http://www.trukey.com/
http://www.huyett.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_50
Length's 3" to 5" $7.76:
http://kmac-distribution.com/shafts/index.htm
http://kmac-distribution.com/shafts/hardened-precision.htm
http://www.leelinear.com/products/
http://www.leelinear.com/products/shafting.aspx
Their supports look a lot like your mounts:
recumpence
1 GW
I mill two set screw flats in each end of the shaft for the pulley and FW adaptor set screws.
I have leaned away from keyways for a number of reasons. Anyone can add their own keyway shaft easy enough, though, if they want to. No biggie.
The drive as you see it is 4.25 inches wide. With freewheel it is about 4.5 inches wide.
It weighs 27 ounces as you see it.
Matt
I have leaned away from keyways for a number of reasons. Anyone can add their own keyway shaft easy enough, though, if they want to. No biggie.
The drive as you see it is 4.25 inches wide. With freewheel it is about 4.5 inches wide.
It weighs 27 ounces as you see it.
Matt
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