hightekbikes.com motor kit review. Electric bike kit.

[dogman dan]

Short wires is good. On construction sites, we'd use skinny cords for a 50' run, but over that, 12 or even 10 guage was needed or the saw would spin too slow and melt down.

Pretty hot ride home today, at about 96F. The motor seemed to run about the same as when it was 90 F. It reaches 160 about 2 miles sooner than when it was only in the 70's but after that, it is not getting all that hot. Hottest hub case measurment so far was 110F. Since the WE brushed ran with a hub case temp around 140f pretty much all the time, I think we have a motor her that can handle some desert riding. We'll see when it's 105 in a month though.

 

[RTLSHIP]

my controller apparently seized. It had been occaionally acting up before I used 48v. Bike just suddenly failed.
Sent it out to Terry @ HTB to get a free opinion. It may be repairable. It or a new one can also be upgraded to better
handle the 48 v.
I'm not quite blaming 48v as there were problems at 36v. Possibly a flawed controller. Also, the SAE plug ins on my
36" extension cord were a little loose ( later fixed) possibly causing power to suddenly stop & restart (many times) w/ switch on.
It's hard to say what caused it.

 

[RTLSHIP]

Bad luck? Don't use stock controller w/ 48v lifepo4. I took one out of the box today and didn't travel one inch. It did test it with 36 v SLA. I say heavy duty is needed or certain parts (capacitors) have to be soldered better.
This on came f/ ebayer. I got 30 days, so no problem. Between this kit and the BD36, I'm unable to enjoy my 48 v pack much.
2 controllers in 1 week.

 

[ekingsting]

Hey RTLSHIP, what was the lifepo4 voltage when you first connected to controller? I have 450 miles with 48v sla, 55.4v hot off charger, and have had only the 1issue with a wire rubbing on axle and grounding that hurt my controller ( not a voltage problem). A little solder was all it took to repair. 50 miles since repair, all Ok and I'm happy again.

 

[dogman dan]

Weeelll, they are made for 36v, so some can hack it and some can't. Lifepo4 does make it worse with a bit more time spent at a higher voltage. Many of the WE controllers shipped last year for bl36 had 60v caps, so 58v gets pretty dang close to the limit. Others, were just going to fry at 36v anyway, but just do it quicker at 48v. Hopefully the quality of the components in these things will start to improve in the future, but I'm not holding my breath on it. The one I got from HTB has 63v caps, so it has a tad more breathing room for 48v. I run mine with no problems with a 56v nicad pack. I suspect I have a pretty quick drop to a lower voltage when I hit throttle.

 

[RTLSHIP]

the first one has 63 v capacitors. didn't open second one. maybe caps can loosen with higher voltage. Terry is going to give an opinion.

 

[RTLSHIP]

eking, the voltage was about 59.5 or less. If sitting for 24 hrs I get 56.2v

 

[RTLSHIP]

one more point eking, maybe it's pinched wiring in the hub thats more sensitive at higher volts causing controller failure.
This seems to be your point?

 

[ekingsting]

one more point eking, maybe it's pinched wiring in the hub thats more sensitive at higher volts causing controller failure.
This seems to be your point?

My thought is that possibly something else other than battery voltage,if less than 60v, such as a short would kill 2 controls in less than a week. This is what happened to phase wire as it enters axle and instant contoller death resulted. Notice small cut on blue wire. This was not the result of axle spin.
RATLSHIP did your controller blink a code after it failed? Mine had 4 flashes repeating from green led with throttle applied which meant problems with phase timing circuit or wiring according to WE manual online.

 

[RTLSHIP]

eking, I did get fast green blinking. My point is that it worked at 36v sla. before. Then I put on 48 v and suddenly all lights on throttle go on red, green and yellow.
I'll have to take a look at wiring below, but the worst I saw was a slight pinch. Your wire was cut half-way through.
By the way the voltage I give could be a bit off. I use 2 multi meters and go by the higher measure.

 

[Create768]

eking, I did get fast green blinking. My point is that it worked at 36v sla. before. Then I put on 48 v and suddenly all lights on throttle go on red, green and yellow.
I'll have to take a look at wiring below, but the worst I saw was a slight pinch. Your wire was cut half-way through.
By the way the voltage I give could be a bit off. I use 2 multi meters and go by the higher measure.

What will happen if the green light is not blinking??This situation happen to me too.,


_________________
LED Flashlight

 

[RTLSHIP]

Terry at HTB told me it's the little daughter board on my controller. I never had the situation where there is no green blinking. There is a Wilderness Energy maunal online to troubleshoot your controller. Ask eking, who has his own post on his Aotema controller problem. His blue wire was cut and caused controller failure, which he repaired.
Perhaps this controller has to be made more resistant to 48v packs, presumably by soldering in the right spots.

 

[carlerik]

OK, I got my HiTek kit about a week ago and finally took my first run today. I'm not fully set up yet but thought I'd post a few remarks. I got the kit minus batteries, then decided on 4X 10.5ah Powersonic SLA's (BatteriesPLus) because I wasn't patient enough to get bigger ones shipped online, and I couldn't stand both the wait and the cost of a Ping yet. Still don't have a proper charger yet- ordered a 36v from PartsForScooters and a 48v from FancyScooters.com, since I wasn't sure which setup will be best for me in the end.

I had several problems getting set up, partly from my own noobie idiocy and partly from some quirks with the kit.
First, I ordered a 700c wheel to match my bike (700X38c). The first tire I got (40W) didn't fit- just fell off the rim. I took it to a pro bike shop in Boston and they said it was a 700c diameter (maybe a tiny bit small), but just a really wide rim. They fit a 45W tire on which is holding, but it was still a little on the loose side going on. So a wide tire is necessary for this rim unless Terry changes things in the future. This is a somewhat unusual size as 700c is more common on road/hybrid bikes with 23 to 38 widths. Nice to have the extra shock absorption though.

Next the controller. I didn't notice Terry had included a trailer hitch-to-anderson connector , so I went in search of a way to connect the controller to my batteries. The Andersons wouldn't have helped anyway, as I didn't have those on the battery and Radio Shack doesn't have em. I ordered a set from PowerX. For now I'm just using crimped 14ga push-ons- is that bad? So anyway, to check the gauge of the controller-to-battery wires I pulled back on the plastic sheathing while holding the connector in the other hand. Big mistake. When I connected the controller to the batteries it was dead. After a call to Terry I decided to open it up and saw I had pulled the Negative off the circuit board. Terry was nice and called right back, but I already decided to go ahead and solder it myself. Also, when connecting the motor there was no response at first . Then I saw one pin on the throttle connector was pushed out, not making a connection. Then voila!, I was in business.

No-load speed test: 32mph @ 36v ; 42 mph @ 48v. Slight margin of error here as my cycle computer is calibrated for 38 width, so this is probably slightly under for a 45 W tire.

I rode to work, 10.5 mi in 33 min on 48V, normally a 1 hour ride. Top speed about 32 mph, not sure exact number on flats yet- maybe 25-28. Will report later.

I ran out of juice on the last 100 feet- good timing! I'm charging the SLA's at work with a silly setup since I couldn't haul my car charger. I hooked them in parallel and then parallel connected three 12V 1000mA power supplies, which have an output of 14.6V. At the end of the trip I was down to 44.4V (11.63 when paralleled). I'll only be back to about 12.7V when I have to leave in 30 min, so I'll cross my fingers and coast and peddle a lot. I think I started with the batteries well under full- they were around 12.6 each or 50V I think.

Last thing: Terry said 36V is safer, but I went ahead and tried 48V, since I had already been through a lot taking the controller apart, etc. When I got to about 10 miles the "empty" throttle light came on, and I thought, Oh boy, that's not good if it means empty for 36V. Since I registered 44.4V on the meter I assume that the controller was smart enough to know I was using 48V and computed the "Empty" discharge accordingly. Does that sound possible? The controller never cut out- just got REALLY slow for the last 100 feet (4mph). Wish me luck getting home as I'm only registering 12.6V per battery.

 

[carlerik]

Well I made it home with juice to spare, 10.4 mi in 31 min. End voltage 47 V, each battery 11.7, 11.7, 11.8, 11.8. I took it easy, coasting down hill and no throttle on flats, just using it for inclines and keeping around 20mph in tough spots. I think my juice ran out on the trip to work partly because the batts were out of balance and a bit under full. At the end of that trip they were 10.93, 11.2, 11.71, 11.69 V. Much better now as stated above.

The wheel (front install) seems a bit wobbly on high speed, mostly when coasting downhill, but also under throttle. Maybe this is normal but I'll check the rim trueness later. Lots of power on the high end and when climbing hills, though. 20mph was pretty easy on steep inclines with pedaling. I peddled pretty vigorously each way, just not enough to sweat a lot, but that's the whole point for me. I'm 6'2, 200lbs, pretty in shape as a cyclist but no athlete.

I took pics of the controller when I took it apart which I'll post later. When I get the courage I'll tell the story of how it also survived some idiotic abuse on my part, including not one, not two, but three shorts.

As for blinking codes, you can find some of these by googling the WE kits but I can add one:

3 quick blinks, pause, repeat = Throttle not getting signal.

The third pin on my throttle connector had been pushed back so there was no signal/connection, and the controller must have understood this. Once I pulled it back out the green light went to steady blink = normal.

 

[RTLSHIP]

carlerik, seems like you get a pretty good roll with those 700cc tires. With 26" tires I get up to around 23 mph (no wind).
With 48 v lifepo4 maybe 29 mph.

 

[dogman dan]

Better slow down some though, I think that light comes on at about 25 volts. Its not calibrated to the controller voltage, its in the throttle, so if you see that light on, even on 36v, you are really flogging the batteries. You have a long way to ride for sla's.

 

[carlerik]

Better slow down some though, I think that light comes on at about 25 volts. Its not calibrated to the controller voltage, its in the throttle, so if you see that light on, even on 36v, you are really flogging the batteries. You have a long way to ride for sla's.

So if this is true it's measuring voltage under load, right? (25V would be less than dead for 36V pack) Today I tried a different, longer route- 12.5 miles. Strong wind. The pack was charged to 52V (13.0 ea, perfectly balanced) and started to crap out at mile 8. Then I took it real easy and peddled the rest of the way, using throttle only for tough spots if it could give me anything. The light would come on only when punching to full, not just a light touch. My end pack voltage was 44.7-46.6 after short rest.

So do you think the controller would have cut out if I were using 36V? At 48V the motor is just drawing too much amperage out of my moderate sized 10.5ah SLA's?

I got my 48V charger today at work and am charging away, up to 56.8V with no green light so far. I'm sure I've punched these batteries, apparently not starting with a proper full charge. Sorry, I've been struggling to find the info on full SLA charges for different pack sizes, plus all I had was a car charger until today :wink: .

Do you think that 48V is too much for SLA unless I go to 18ah or so? I went with 48 because I figured I'd get a little more range as long as I don't always go full throttle. Yesterday was a test and I was rushing to work, but 20-25mph is plenty fast for me.
Carl

 

[carlerik]

Oops I just realized that 48V will draw LESS amperage than 36V setup. However, my battery wiring is only 14G right now with crimped push-ons, no solder anywhere. Also, battery-to-controller connection is wire nutted for now, as I´m still waiting on the Andersons (I broke the originals with my bare newbie hands, remember ). The controller wires to the battery look like 12 Gauge, no bigger. Should I match this? And could I be causing a huge voltage drop if the battery wiring is 14G?

I´ve searched the sphere to find that 10G is recommended. Maybe that explains the ¨empty¨ throttle light as Dogman suggests, because 30Volts seems way low when my maxed out pack read 44V at end of trip. Could 14G battery wire be ¨starving¨ the controller of needed amps due to excess wire resistance?

Sorry I´m a little perplexed here. The kit came with no instructions.

My Doc Wattson meter is coming soon, hopefully to elucidate much of this.

 

[Anonymous]

.

 

[Russell]

Oops I just realized that 48V will draw LESS amperage than 36V setup. However, my battery wiring is only 14G right now with crimped push-ons, no solder anywhere. Also, battery-to-controller connection is wire nutted for now, as I´m still waiting on the Andersons (I broke the originals with my bare newbie hands, remember ). The controller wires to the battery look like 12 Gauge, no bigger. Should I match this? And could I be causing a huge voltage drop if the battery wiring is 14G?

I´ve searched the sphere to find that 10G is recommended. Maybe that explains the ¨empty¨ throttle light as Dogman suggests, because 30Volts seems way low when my maxed out pack read 44V at end of trip. Could 14G battery wire be ¨starving¨ the controller of needed amps due to excess wire resistance?

Sorry I´m a little perplexed here. The kit came with no instructions.

My Doc Wattson meter is coming soon, hopefully to elucidate much of this.

A few things to think about;

First 4-10.5Ah SLA batteries won't yield much more than about 5.25Ah if drained in a half-hour. With 5.25Ah at 48V you get about 252Wh. If drained at 20Wh/mile that gives you a range of 12.5 miles. For comparison I drained my 36V/9Ah SLA pack in 12.6 miles however I averaged just 18.5 mph and was using a 15A controller at the time for an energy consumption of just under 13 Wh/mile. So what I'm saying is you are probably doing as expected if you can get 12.5 miles when ridden at 20-25 mph.

Next, if you can't even get that range then you might have one or more weak batteries. All it takes however is one weak battery to die before the others to drop the voltage dramatically. If your batteries weren't purchased together and used together as a series pack then there's much more chance that one could fail before the others. The only way to find out is to test them individually and you have the tool coming to do just that. Charge the batteries up then connect an automobile headlight as a load with the Watts-Up meter in between. When the battery gets to 10.5V stop the test and record the Amp-Hours and Watt-Hours, then repeat for each 12V battery. You want all four batteries to have capacities that are close since your pack is no better than the weakest one.

Finally, 14 gauge wire is rated for up to around 30A in free air, I use it for my wiring but would recommend stepping up to 12G or even 10G if you routinely pull more than 20A have more than a few feet of power cable. However since 14G wire has a resistance of about 2.5 ohms per 1,000 feet you won't get more than a few tenths of a volt drop while pulling 20A and virtually no voltage drop when sitting idle. Therefore if you are experiencing large voltage drops along the line check the most likely place for high resistance, the connections. Solder connections if you don't need to break them and use high quality, high current connectors for power connections you do need or want to break, but still solder the pins.


-R

 

[dogman dan]

It's just good ol voltage sag. The sag gets closer to a low voltage when the batteries are closer to empty. New batteries will need a few cycles to break in too, so if you are still on the first few rides, it should improve. Also you will need some time to learn to ride a bit more efficiently. Even riding full throttle like I do all the time, you still can blow a lot of power in how you get to full throttle. It's not just a matter of pedaling either though that helps, but using a bit less throttle when the motor can't respond to it makes a big difference. Sort of easing into the throttle as you start up, instead of mashing it and making the motor pull real hard saves a lot of watthours. If you hear a lot of grunting from the motor, you are putting too much trottle on for that moment. Riding a bit slower really helps with sla's. Full throttle will deliver a lot less than a lesser amp rate.

Do check your connectors though, one of the more likely bad connections is where the wire meets the battery. They get loose and need to be tightened up regularly with an sla setup.

 

[carlerik]

Thanks for the input nutsandvolts, Dogman, Russell. I figured 14ga should be enough since it handles 15A house wiring @ 110V but wasn't sure. I had put in a 30A fuse on the battery + just as a precaution and nothing's blown, so I assume 23A controller limit reported by others is the most I've drawn.

Got my Andersons and WattsUp today, so I'll try to get the wiring set up properly this weekend. Should I solder the battery terminals and end with Andersons? They are the tabs with a hole, maybe for a screw? I'll at least beef up the battery seeries wires to 12 or 10ga.

Thanks for the load test info Russell- I'll try it, but all the batts were newly purchased together. Now that I have a real charger things should be a bit or a lot better. I never charged to 59V the first two times, so I may have been starting with 80% capacity to begin with. Now they're resting on a proper float charge for a few days.

I know what you mean about the motor groaning. I've been sensitive to this and ease up when I hear it, but I figure I should be able to get a little more out of the batts without peddling so hard all the way. Break-in and proper charging should help. I'll stop blabbering until I get more data :wink:
Carl

 

[Russell]

Thanks for the load test info Russell- I'll try it, but all the batts were newly purchased together. Now that I have a real charger things should be a bit or a lot better. I never charged to 59V the first two times, so I may have been starting with 80% capacity to begin with. Now they're resting on a proper float charge for a few days.

Do remember that fully charged for 12V SLA batteries is 13.2V +/-0.1V so your 48V pack should start out at around 52.8V after it's been off the charger for a few hours. An SLA charger will charge the batteries using up to around 14.8V per 12V battery, or 59.2V for your set of 4, but that's mainly for speed. If the high voltage wasn't used the charge current would be low and they'd take forever to fill up. When the current gets to the a certain setpoint, For my SLA charger it is 0.4A, the charger will go to float mode to maintain the batteries, usually this voltage is 13.5V +/- 0.3V per 12V battery or up to 55.2V for your set. This voltage is still higher than normal to make up for some small self discharge. Once the charger is shut off the batteries will drift down to their normal voltage of 13.2 per 12V battery. This doesn't mean they've lost charge, it's just what their chemistry dictates they should be.


-R

 

[RTLSHIP]

Ok I got back my Aotema controller and it runs fine at 48v lifepo4. I blame myself for my problems as the controller
and wiring were installed onto a front basket. Big mistake. Controller and wiring are now on rear rack. better protection.
At this point, I think, it is erroneous to say controller can't handle 48v. Putting groceries etc on basket on top of wiring & controller may be what caused my problems. Lesson learned.

 

[dogman dan]

Some controllers blow at 48v, some blow at 36v, Who's really to say what was cause and what was effect? You change to 48v, and then the controller blows. If it did it in the first two seconds, it may be caused by 48v. If it happens a day later, who knows what really caused it? I think it sorta comes down to a good one will run fine at 36 or 48v, but a bad one is gonna toast at whatever voltage you are using.