Patriot4
100 mW
LiPo charging caused fire in garage-
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25069
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=25069
House Burned down from RC LiPo Fire
- Thread starter Patriot4
- Start date
TylerDurden
100 GW
He describes his charging setup, but it would be nice to see a picture of it. :?
Ypedal
100 TW
that totally sucks for the dude.... loosing everything you own can be nothing but devastating.
But let's not loose track of reality here... houses burn down on this earth every single day and it happens for all sorts of reasons, lipo fires are not at the top of the list of causes.
Charging at night while sleeping... un-attended... not cool.. the time it takes to charge these things you can do it while awake and near by. Not to prevent a fire, but to take action right away if such a thing was to happen, as un-likely as it is.
But let's not loose track of reality here... houses burn down on this earth every single day and it happens for all sorts of reasons, lipo fires are not at the top of the list of causes.
Charging at night while sleeping... un-attended... not cool.. the time it takes to charge these things you can do it while awake and near by. Not to prevent a fire, but to take action right away if such a thing was to happen, as un-likely as it is.
el_walto
10 kW
Well he said he had 55 RC planes. My guess would be it was a lipo that was not in his charging station that went up in flame.
ohzee
100 kW
Yea still why would you be balancing lipo and in bed even if you had a safe setup.
The alarms on your charger are worthless if you are not around to hear them.
Someone made a good analogy "charging lipo is like cooking with oil, you don't walk away from it"
The alarms on your charger are worthless if you are not around to hear them.
Someone made a good analogy "charging lipo is like cooking with oil, you don't walk away from it"
cassschr1
10 kW
Damn moderator closed the thread cause of double post, now I can't read more about it. That was a post everybody should be able to see from any link.
Take a brand new untested pack of the most dangerous battery chemistry available, stick it on a brand new untested charger, and go to bed.
...my sympathy is at sub-optimal levels here.
If you look through the video, there is a crapton of flammable objects in his garage. I have a feeling there was a pretty big chain reaction.
This guy has had lipo fires before, and got lazy. Don't get lazy. There's your wakeup call.
...my sympathy is at sub-optimal levels here.
If you look through the video, there is a crapton of flammable objects in his garage. I have a feeling there was a pretty big chain reaction.
This guy has had lipo fires before, and got lazy. Don't get lazy. There's your wakeup call.
Hornet dave
10 mW
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 27
Unfortunately this is not terribly uncommon in the RC world. Lousy chargers, bad batteries, folks using the wrong charge settings, they all add up to kaboom!
Ykick
1 GW
Unfortunate for somebody who should know better. But I can practically guarantee you'll find more garage fires caused by gasoline storage than Lipo...
dingoEsride
100 kW
like Ypedal wrote, if it looks like it could ignite then it might, don't leave it unattended!
kfong
100 kW
Most lipo fires happen during charging. Leaving them unattended is not a good idea. His equipment was of good quality, but even the best can have defects. Shit happens, so take as much caution as possible. Our big ebike packs will be nearly impossible to put out and most likely will continue burning until the contents have burned off. If you are charging them on your bike, I would look into a large fire blanket to throw over it. Ideally they should be changing in a container large enough to handle the fire, but I doubt this is the case for most of us using them for ebikes. Smothering the fire is the only effective way to control it from spreading. A bucket of sand, or fire extinguisher specified for such fires should be nearby. An out of control fire can be your worst nightmare.
E-bike4life
100 W
[youtube]1OkUuvhp-rg[/youtube]
Patriot4
100 mW
From his set up for containing, in case something happens, has what I think might be flaw? Doesn't LiPos when they puff and eventually popp spew hydrogen gas? If so, mixing with air creats an air bomb which very few enclosers could with-stand. Either have a low volume containment or some sort of positive ventilation, like a fan, to vent?
John in CR
100 TW
kfong said:
My problem is with the word most, because it is accurate. I realize that most of the remainder occur during some kind of mistreatment, but I know first hand that a pack can go into thermal runaway just sitting on a shelf unused and undisturbed. My answer is to keep them outside away from anything flammable so worst case is relatively non-eventful other than at most a total loss of one bike.
Hornet dave
10 mW
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 27
From the description he wrote, it sounds like there was nothing that would contain the blaze. When lipos blaze, they shoot out fire in a quite phenominal manner. The battery bunkers come in three varieties, one is a cloth bag (im guessing nomex?) that would simply keep the flames from shooting as far as they normally would. The next variety is a box enclosure of some sort, like an ammo box or flower pot, which would simply redirect the flame. The next bunker i actually attempts to smother the flame with sand, you use something like a cinder block that you drop the lipo into for charging, and you put a sandbag on top of the cinder block. When the lipo catches on fire, the sandbag melts, and sand then surrounds the lipo and hopefully smothers the flame. Ive seen videos on this system and it seems to work the best.
Of course the best system is to charge your batteries outside in a spot where they can do no harm.
Of course the best system is to charge your batteries outside in a spot where they can do no harm.
John in CR
100 TW
Hornet dave said:
Charge and store. People have this false impression that they're safe to store indoors. That's only true with a concrete floor, significant distance from anything flammable, and good ventilation. With a bike size pack that probably means the room needs a concrete floor, walls, and ceiling.
The sandbag approach sounds promising. Will it terminate the reaction or just contain it until it's done and eliminate open flame in the meantime? What would happen using that method to store an 8-12 pack block of the RC lipo packs? Assuming the thermal runaway has to run its course and flames are successfully smothered by sand, how much energy are we looking at being released?.....Just what the battery has stored, eg 1kwh, or is there a chemical change that adds to the energy total even if open flames are prevented? Over what time period?...2kw for 30 minutes is a different animal to deal with than 30kw for 2 minutes.
Whiplash
1 MW
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 2,906
I have a question, will a steel box made of thin sheet metal, aprox. 20ga. Thick help to contain such a fire? I was thinking a box tightly hugging the batteries, but not totally sealed would do a nice job of containing it based on the fires I have seen on yoitube. What are your thoughts? Will halon or similar extinguishers put it out?
Hornet dave
10 mW
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
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http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719116&highlight=lipo+bunker&page=20
Dont forget that the fumes from a lipo fire are nasty, you dont want them in your house and nothing will really contain them. Also, for the size batteries you guys are using on ebikes, you will need to do some fire tests to find a good bunker design. Save those old packs and blow some of them up in a safe area with different bunker designs.
Dont forget that the fumes from a lipo fire are nasty, you dont want them in your house and nothing will really contain them. Also, for the size batteries you guys are using on ebikes, you will need to do some fire tests to find a good bunker design. Save those old packs and blow some of them up in a safe area with different bunker designs.
Alan B
100 GW
See the videos from the ebike battery fire at Grange racetrack last summer. Expect flames about six feet tall. So if there's nothing flammable within say ten feet of your ebike the fire might not spread. A good smoke alarm right there that you can hear throughout the house would help also. Keep the garage clean, especially with regard to flammable items. Perhaps a sprinkler system in the garage is a good idea.
FastDemise
100 W
From my experience in the NAVY Halon works to displace the oxygen. It's pricey if I remember correctly and being replaced as it's all bad for the environment and such. It works on ships for engineering rooms that are low and sealed but there can't be a living creature in the space as it will kill them once sprayed. It settles in the lungs do to it being heavier than air. I like the ammo box idea. If things go bad the handles make it easy to quickly carry off to safer area or your kids sandbox.
Lipo does make me nervous and I am being a very bad example with having about 2kw
of old laptop batteries sitting in my room right now. I'm paranoid enough to not even go downstairs while I'm charging or discharging the batteries.
Lipo does make me nervous and I am being a very bad example with having about 2kw
of old laptop batteries sitting in my room right now. I'm paranoid enough to not even go downstairs while I'm charging or discharging the batteries.
Alan B
100 GW
Halon no longer produced, only available recycled. Very expensive. There are alternatives. Not sure it works on Lipo anyway. Water, CO2 work on Lithium Ion.
Hornet dave
10 mW
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2011
- Messages
- 27
I just checked out a bunch of lipo fire videos on youtube. Interesting for sure!
One was an ammo box that was sealed pretty well. It exploded in a quite spectacular manner.
Of the lipo bags, some seemed to contain the flames pretty well, others seemed to shoot flames out of the flap. Perhaps lipo size is an influence?
Boxes with loose fitting lids seemed to contain the flames quite well.
They all spewed out a ton of smoke.
Also, i read that the sandbag on top of the cinder block did not do so well with a bigger lipo, the fire simply blasted the sand upwards and out of the way.
One was an ammo box that was sealed pretty well. It exploded in a quite spectacular manner.
Of the lipo bags, some seemed to contain the flames pretty well, others seemed to shoot flames out of the flap. Perhaps lipo size is an influence?
Boxes with loose fitting lids seemed to contain the flames quite well.
They all spewed out a ton of smoke.
Also, i read that the sandbag on top of the cinder block did not do so well with a bigger lipo, the fire simply blasted the sand upwards and out of the way.
kfong
100 kW
One idea I was thinking was to wrap the lipos in a fiberglass weave used for making laminates. The lipo bags seem to be using this material. An open weave cloth would allow gasses to escape while being still fine enough to smother the fire. This along with a container to direct the gasses might be a good solution. Need to be tested though. I plan to use this approach on my current BMC build where the lipos will be mounted permanently in the frame, so I trying to come up with as much safety precautions as possible. I plan to make a new battery cover out of nomex and have a loose inner liner out of fiberglass mat. Vent holes to direct the gasses. The idea is a lipo type sack that is part of the bike.
Alan B
100 GW
The fire occurs in the gases away from the batteries. Hydrogen and solvent gases are combusting over a large volume. The entire volume must be kept away from flammable material to avoid spreading the fire.
LockH
1 PW
Homeowner, fire officials suspect lithium ion batteries caused Ewa Townhouse fire
Read more: http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/homeowner-fire-officials-suspect-lithium-ion-batteries-caused-ewa-townhouse-fire/24445618
Just goes ta show ya. Always charge on somebuddy elses island. Nice vid opening shot:
Read more: http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/homeowner-fire-officials-suspect-lithium-ion-batteries-caused-ewa-townhouse-fire/24445618
Just goes ta show ya. Always charge on somebuddy elses island. Nice vid opening shot:
