How many of us carry mace or A MACE while E-Biking?

[LI-ghtcycle]

I would never live there but I certainly don't hate the United States, far from it, I really admire your 'can-do' and many achievements. I am definitely not into nationalism either. However, I maintain it is a sad indictment if you have to carry a gun to feel safe and by that criteria, the notion that a place is unsafe to live in, the U.S. is a failed country.

If you created a list of similar countries where people feel it necessary to carry guns. You would see what I am talking about. Jamaica, Mexico, Somalia, South Africa, Congo, and lesser known places like Turkmenistan. It's hard to argue that those places are successful.

This notion that individuals are in control of their own destiny is completely illusory.

My mistake, friend, I took the "failed nation" statement to be resentment towards the USA.

I think you may misunderstand my reason for carrying a gun from time to time depending on where I have worked and where I have had to live.

I wouldn't say that I would carry the weapon for purposes of "just to feel safe" as much as a "just in case" in most instances. The one time that I was in fear of either myself or a neighbor being attacked by the ex-con, I simply had the pistol in my house, I didn't carry it with me everywhere, at that time, I didn't know about the laws concerning concealed carry, but unfortunately this guy had just gotten out of jail for breaking into the house of a young girl and attempting to rape her, and though the cops were watching his every move, he had served his sentence, and was out of jail.

He started trying to lure a young girl in the neighborhood into trusting him so he could attempt a similar crime no doubt, but once word got out that I was packing, he never appeared again in the hallway again(not that I was spreading rumors mind you, but in a small town people have a way of finding out).

I simply became educated about the use of firearms at that time, and started feeling it was a responsibility of mine as a citizen to be able to defend myself or someone else if I were to find myself in a bad situation.

I thought very seriously about becoming a police officer, and even pursued that career and took armed security jobs for a while (BIG mistake to get paid little over minimum wage and have that kind of potential liability because when it hits the fan, the low man on the totem pole takes the blame, and here I was being sent to places that had been robbed at gun point, to walk around in a police like uniform to help prevent it! )

Thank God i have never had a reason to even un-holster a weapon to defend myself or others, but there have been times and places where I have been where I was glad I had the option.

The closest I ever came to having to shoot someone was right after 911 happened, I was in the Air Force, and my squadron was part of the auxiliary Security Police, so we were given a full combat load, stationed on the air field, and with orders to "take out" anyone who appeared to be attempting to destroy an aircraft. This was poorly coordinated, and I came very close to having to choose whether or not to shoot a bus driving Tech Sergeant who blew my check point AND the guy who issued my weapon mistakenly had done the function check WITH a magazine attached, therefore loading a live round into the chamber!!

It's not really reported much when a lawful citizen uses a firearm to prevent a crime simply by presenting it in a situation where it's use might be warranted, mainly because of general fear of guns, and how people treat you differently simply for knowing that you carry one, but there have been some horrible attacks at schools and churches where in some cases armed citizens, and others armed security have prevented a gun man from going on a rampage.

A good friend of mine who just happened to also be ex-Air Force has a permit to carry in all 50 states (I believe he was in OSI, sort of the Air Force version of FBI) that he has been able to maintain, and has crossed the USA on his bicycle many times, and was very glad to have a permit, when in the middle of the night burglars tried to make off with his and a friend's gear. He chased them off with his .357, and no one was shot, and he did wish he hadn't scared them so bad because they took off in a truck with half their stuff, but there have been instances where just for kicks criminals have done horrible things to people just because they could. I would rather not trust a criminal will just rob me and not do worse to me, I would rather have the option to defend myself.

Not quite sure what you mean about controlling destiny is Illusory? I believe that it should be the right of the citizen to do their best to self-govern, and that the less government is involved in our daily lives the better. Not sure if that is what you are referring too? But I believe there is a very different approach to government in the USA than most in Europe, and I prefer to live here, but I hold nothing against those who live elsewhere.

From where I sit, viewing the border from my house, It's pretty easy to see the difference between a failed country and one that isn't. El Paso, a murder or two a year is just across the river from Juarez with 3000 or more per year. Those are not bullshit hyped statistics. All guns illegal in Mexico BTW. So the mafia has it easy with the populace unarmed. Fortunately the killing is mostly one new cartel killing the other long establised cartel who are the police. But lots of folks end up in the crossfire, like those kids at the 16th birthday party where the wrong dude was invited.

The folks are not being fenced out of the failed country, they are trying their best to get into the USA. Here where everybody can have a gun it's a LOT safer. But mostly, its just the fact that the police are not the mafia that makes it safe. Some bad apples of course, but most cops are not criminals in the USA. That's the main criteria I use to tell the difference.

There is more to it of course, but this "failed country" is not nearly so corrupt as many others. Anywhere you might have to defend yourself against the bullies that exist. I don't belive in concealed carry myself. When I have knowingly gone places that were pretty scketchy, that pistol on the hip always had everybody I encountered treating me with utmost respect. I say you want to pack fine. Pack it right where people can see it.

Now, you wanna say our diplomacy has failed? No argument there, we did pretty much invade and conquer the country where the terrorists weren't present. Only Cheney knows why.

I agree that open carry is a better deterrent, however, even where I have lived in Montana there has grown such a misunderstanding about guns and their use, that although open carry is allowed on the books, (heck by law a woman can have a revolver in her purse and NOT be required to have a CCW in Montana!) it's not practical because so many folks would freak-out in many of the towns now populated with as many transplants from the big cities as native citizens.

There is an older gentleman who is completely harmless, who lives in Hamilton as a "mountain man" and carries a .44 on his hip because he lives in a small trailer on the edge of civilization and protects his horses from predators (mainly cougars and bears) and was banned from a few local restaurants just for open carry.

With some states laws you can actually get charged with "brandishing" or at least cause a lot of trouble for yourself for open-carry. I envy your ability to be able to open carry and have it be a good thing Dogman. Here in Oregon, especially the Portland area, if I were to walk around with a pistol on my hip, I would cause the 911 emergency switchboard to flood, not because I would be threatening anyone, or acting aggressive in anyway, but there isn't any common sense here when it comes to guns, mainly because most people know very little about them, and just have a general idea that they are bad from news, because lets face it, if something good happens, it generally doesn't make the news, only the bad stuff. If my brother wasn't married to a woman who grew up in Montana around people who hunted and used guns in positive ways, he would probably still be opposed to them.

 

[Lemlux]

In 1973 I lived in NYC on 80th Street 1/2 block from Central Park. My daylight exercise was to pedal several laps around the Park on my Schwinn Varsity 10 speed. I'd always be slowed down on hills at the 110th street end where I'd be intently and grimly observed by multiple potential bikejackers hanging near the route . I confess that I eventually started carrying a protective hand-held device in a pocket that would not have pleased the authorities had an incident occurred.

I'm not proud of what I did, and I'm lucky I was never was involved in an incident that would have caused me to be stopped by cops and searched. A felony charge would have kept me out of the jobs I held for the next three decades.

 

[dogman dan]

Happily, in New Mexico you can carry a gun anywhere you want just about, just carry it showing. Much of the west is similar. You can't take a gun into bars or voting areas. But out and about, a rifle on the rack in the window of the pickup is standard.

I really never felt any need to pack to be safe in town once I became an adult. It was out in the wildlands where you had concerns about bears or bikers with manners worse than bears. But they'd start saying sir to ya when they saw the pistol holster.

I lived in a rough neighborhood by most folks standards. One nieghbor had to move out and go do his child molestation time. Another popped her husband in the head with the 22 and set the trailer on fire. We're talking next door neighbor here, not down the block. But I always felt safe in my yard. Perhaps the 4 bloodhounds did that. Huge guys would come by, " Hey, can I have my baseball back?"

On this side of the border, bullets still do fly quite a bit. But nearly always the shooter is a gangbanger under 18. That means illegal to have the gun without parental supervision, like hunting with dad. More often than not, they never even hit anything. They're all high and learned to shoot by watching rambo or something.

Down in Juarez, several times a week, they see somebody they want dead on the street and they just sweep it. The guy they want dead and everybody else in sight too. Seriously, it's worse than Kabul by a long shot.

 

[Reactor]

hi Guys,
Just to right the ship I am another Australian with a very different view point. When I was younger I went for a 5 week trip through the east coast of America. Before I left I was worried about my safety and particularly that of my sister. I couldn't have been more wrong, I found in the main, Americans to be the most generous, hospitable people I have ever met. Nothing was too much trouble and my sister and I were welcomed to stay with complete strangers and then their friends. The MSM has a lot to answer for in my opinion.

If America is a failed state then god help Australia. I believe the American Constitution to be one of the best governing documents, if not the best, in the world. Breaking government up into three distinct sections judicial, executive and legislative and enshrining citizens rights with a bill of rights. Do we have any legislated rights in Australia NO! Each year the government keeps legislating and whittling down what we are free to do. The 200w limit for ebikes being a classic example and just makes good citizens into criminals. Bit by bit, we are losing the fight as bureaucrats relentlessly legislate to protect us! We as a country have lost any notion of personal freedom and responsibility for ones own actions, and because we have never had to fight for our freedoms most people simply don't care; making us easy pickings for our government. It honestly makes me sad to think where we are heading. When people finally wake up and realise that your every action isn't suppose to be watched and vetted by the government for your own safety. What are we going to fight back with?

 

[Pure]

I carry a bag of rocks and an air horn. No need to carry a weapon as I won't ride in place where one might be needed. As for dogs, if a dog is actually trying to get you and not just instinctively chasing "something" then pepper spray will rarely deter them. I simply outrun any dog that may want to chase me. My rocks are for asshole drivers. I'll pelt the shit out of a car that almost slips me or does some other asshole thing that they shouldn't have done. The air horn is for when the rocks would be "too much" I'll creep up to them at a traffic light and blast the horn in their window and hopefully scare the shit out of them.

 

[Hillhater]

On this side of the border, bullets still do fly quite a bit. But nearly always the shooter is a gangbanger under 18. That means illegal to have the gun without parental supervision, like hunting with dad. More often than not, they never even hit anything. They're all high and learned to shoot by watching rambo or something. .

I am just amazed at how you casually accept 18yr olds randomly loosing off rounds !

I think this is the kind of MACE we need to carry ..

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Happily, in New Mexico you can carry a gun anywhere you want just about, just carry it showing. Much of the west is similar. You can't take a gun into bars or voting areas. But out and about, a rifle on the rack in the window of the pickup is standard.

I really never felt any need to pack to be safe in town once I became an adult. It was out in the wildlands where you had concerns about bears or bikers with manners worse than bears. But they'd start saying sir to ya when they saw the pistol holster.

I lived in a rough neighborhood by most folks standards. One nieghbor had to move out and go do his child molestation time. Another popped her husband in the head with the 22 and set the trailer on fire. We're talking next door neighbor here, not down the block. But I always felt safe in my yard. Perhaps the 4 bloodhounds did that. Huge guys would come by, " Hey, can I have my baseball back?"

On this side of the border, bullets still do fly quite a bit. But nearly always the shooter is a gangbanger under 18. That means illegal to have the gun without parental supervision, like hunting with dad. More often than not, they never even hit anything. They're all high and learned to shoot by watching rambo or something.

Down in Juarez, several times a week, they see somebody they want dead on the street and they just sweep it. The guy they want dead and everybody else in sight too. Seriously, it's worse than Kabul by a long shot.

Wow Dogman!

And to think I thought I had a bad experience in The Dalles! Dogs are a great for security. I'm curious, since you have hounds do you ever hunt with them alone? (no firearm)

You know, if the logic that guns cause more problems were to hold true, I think that places like where you live and I have lived in Montana would be War Zones, thankfully they aren't.

In fact, the last time I heard of something crazy happening in Missoula, Montana, there was some pilot program where a couple of feuding families from Russia were immigrated to live near town, and I don't remember the details, but something along the lines of a shooting and a car being set fire on main street (some disagreement between the feuding Russian families) right below the window of the apartment I used to rent when I first moved there in the 90's! :lol: (Think this incident happened in the mid-2000's or something ...)

Having hunted in Montana a bit I sure was glad to have a rifle when confronted by a Brown Bear.

Kind of funny that you mention bears and bikers, "Lions and Tigers and BIKERS oh MY!"

I bet the fact that you had that gun on your hip at times prevented a whole lot more trouble than anything.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I suppose you hate the fact we don't have to pay so many duties and taxes on so many things like E-Bike batteries & motors mailed in from over-seas?

We have a HobbyCity Store in Australia buddy lipo and motors are both cheap, couple bucks more than advertised on there main site, i would likely pay less than you for them seeing the Aussie dollar is above the US dollar things are cheap for us to buy... OH, i also have never paid import duty tax for anything i have bought either

KiM

Sorry KiM, I was thinking of the posts I have seen of complaints of duties and such for shipping into Ireland IIRC, not sure who it was that posted, I should have been more clear on that. :wink:

I'm beginning to think that maybe ordering from China is just an adventure regardless of how it's done.

Still waiting for word that my motor has ACTUALLY shipped from China and the latest is something about "sorry we can't get it through customs we have tried three time!"

 

[DAND214]

You know, if the logic that guns cause more problems were to hold true, I think that places like where you live and I have lived in Montana would be War Zones, thankfully they aren't.

You want a war zone, come to CHICAGO!

It never seems to stop here on the south side.

Here they band the sale of handguns years ago. So now there are more guns than before? Makes a lot of sense, tell them they can't have it and all they do is get more.

As for carrying, I won't tell

Dan

 

[auraslip]

Lets not let this thread devolve into gun politics. No ones opinion is going to change on account of anything you post.

With the variety having 4 legs it's all about the attitude you project, not the weapon you carry, but if I run across one that is bike aggressive, I'll stop and/or turn around and confront it to help break the dog of this dangerous habit.

This is good. I try to do this, but not when there is more than one. Dogs are more of an issue for me than people. When I rode my pedal bike for exercise, I had to start carrying a squirt pistol full of water. That always worked (and if it didn't hot sauce was next)

For people, the first step is a U-lock. I used to have it clipped to the top tube, and could remove it with one hand. Great for wielding while still on the bike. Smashing mirrors for example (never did that!)
Now It's in the trunk, but damn if it doesn't make me feel safer. I have had drivers follow me into parking lots, but they speed off when they see a pissed off dude walking towards them with a giant steel u-lock in their hands. Can't get out of your safety box can you bitch!

I like the idea of a nano-tech stun gun. How much do you think you'd need to incapacitate someone?

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Lets not let this thread devolve into gun politics. No ones opinion is going to change on account of anything you post.

With the variety having 4 legs it's all about the attitude you project, not the weapon you carry, but if I run across one that is bike aggressive, I'll stop and/or turn around and confront it to help break the dog of this dangerous habit.

This is good. I try to do this, but not when there is more than one. Dogs are more of an issue for me than people. When I rode my pedal bike for exercise, I had to start carrying a squirt pistol full of water. That always worked (and if it didn't hot sauce was next)

For people, the first step is a U-lock. I used to have it clipped to the top tube, and could remove it with one hand. Great for wielding while still on the bike. Smashing mirrors for example (never did that!)
Now It's in the trunk, but damn if it doesn't make me feel safer. I have had drivers follow me into parking lots, but they speed off when they see a pissed off dude walking towards them with a giant steel u-lock in their hands. Can't get out of your safety box can you bitch!

I like the idea of a nano-tech stun gun. How much do you think you'd need to incapacitate someone?

Neat! Only problem is it legal in all 50 states? Not sure if they are, but I'd love to have a "ghost busters" style one if they existed!

Imagine the next driver that cuts you off just hit his car with with a big jolt, you maybe an EMP gun would be even better! Just make sure your bike is properly shielded. :wink:

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

On this side of the border, bullets still do fly quite a bit. But nearly always the shooter is a gangbanger under 18. That means illegal to have the gun without parental supervision, like hunting with dad. More often than not, they never even hit anything. They're all high and learned to shoot by watching rambo or something. .

I am just amazed at how you casually accept 18yr olds randomly loosing off rounds !

I think this is the kind of MACE we need to carry ..

Oh, so THAT's what they mean by getting Medieval!

****EDIT In Honor of this post, I am going to re-title it "carry mace, (or A MACE) ..." hehe ****

Man, I think I'd rather be shot than hit by one of those things!

When I rode motorcycles I daydreamed of putting twin paintball barrels hidden inside "ram air" intakes on a fairing and lighting up the offending car with 'em.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

BTW, I'm really glad that no one is getting hot under the collar and flaming each other on this thread, just shows how the people here on ES are unique, I appreciate all the comments, and value all opinions.

 

[mrzed]

For dogs chasing, outrun it, or if you can't, stop and put the bike between you and the dog - use it as a shield/weapon. I never met a dog I couldn't outrun on a pedal bike (though some got close). I would think most folks ebikes on here would easily outrun dogs, unless you Americans need all those guns to protect you from packs of feral greyhounds.

 

[boostjuice]

I carry a bag of rocks and an air horn. No need to carry a weapon as I won't ride in place where one might be needed. As for dogs, if a dog is actually trying to get you and not just instinctively chasing "something" then pepper spray will rarely deter them. I simply outrun any dog that may want to chase me. My rocks are for asshole drivers. I'll pelt the shit out of a car that almost slips me or does some other asshole thing that they shouldn't have done. The air horn is for when the rocks would be "too much" I'll creep up to them at a traffic light and blast the horn in their window and hopefully scare the shit out of them.

+1 :wink:

 

[auraslip]

I never met a dog I couldn't outrun on a pedal bike (though some got close). I would think most folks ebikes on here would easily outrun dogs, unless you Americans need all those guns to protect you from packs of feral greyhounds.

I've had 100lb dogs pace me up to 30mph.
They can't keep up for long, but unless you have a bike with great acceleration they CAN catch you long enough to go all bitey on your leg.

 

[Hillhater]

I've had 100lb dogs pace me up to 30mph.
They can't keep up for long, but unless you have a bike with great acceleration they CAN catch you long enough to go all bitey on your leg.

Ahh, come on. they are just playing "Tag" with you.....dont you recognise a little "your it" peck on the thigh, when you get one ?? :wink: :lol:

 

[dogman dan]

I chase all solitary dogs back to thier house, repeatedly if needed. It's all about letting them know I'm the alpha dog. I'll take on any single dog anytime barehanded since I have the skills to take em down instantly. Ideally the dog goes for your throat, if so you can own em. The low bike is much harder to defend, but in that case they bite a foot that is moving very fast at thier face. In nearly every case, a dog loses 90% of it's will to attack when it sees that you are attacking it. Packs are another story, get your back to a wall FAST. Or outrun if you have enough lead. Good reason to have that 40 mph capable bike in a rural place.

Same attitude of pack leadership can work on people, that is, ones that don't already have the drop on you.

 

[Ykick]

Most lone dogs you can back off by using something to make yourself look bigger. Stick or club obviously but even a rolled up newspaper raised above your head will make many dog wonder WTF is that and how did it get so big? And as our resident experts says, don't back away, lean in, move towards em enough so that they know you're gonna stand your turf.

Riding is a whole other deal. Years ago, poor dog left his tooth in my boot toe while charging my m/c on a country road. Dumb dog hadn't thought about what it was gonna do once it caught me.

 

[Pure]

This thread reminds me of a problem neighbor we had when we were kids. 2 doors down from my house was this white trash redneck neighbor who had 15 dogs and no gate, all of them were pit/chow mixes. These sumbitches would chase us every time we went past his house on foot or on bike. We called animal control many times, but here animal control is kind of useless, because unless the dogs are in the street they can't catch them. Meaning by law as soon as the dogs stepped foot on any private property, animal control could not legally follow them. We tried talking to the owner. He had been fined many times by the city for leash laws and too many dogs. You're only allowed to have X amount of dogs in city limits here. This all boiled to a head the day one of them actually caught my brother and bit him on his leg. I won't say how it was done, but to say the least, every one of those dogs died a couple of days later. This was truly a last resort because every other option had been exhausted. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have pets.

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

The biggest threat I encounter on my bike tends to be dogs. Most of them around here aren't all that mean looking, but they sure do love running after you and barking, right up until they run out of invisible fence. The best way to attack this issue is simply to have some throttle overhead. If something becomes an issue, you simply turn your hand a little more and it goes away.

 

[wineboyrider]

This thread reminds me of a problem neighbor we had when we were kids. 2 doors down from my house was this white trash redneck neighbor who had 15 dogs and no gate, all of them were pit/chow mixes. These sumbitches would chase us every time we went past his house on foot or on bike. We called animal control many times, but here animal control is kind of useless, because unless the dogs are in the street they can't catch them. Meaning by law as soon as the dogs stepped foot on any private property, animal control could not legally follow them. We tried talking to the owner. He had been fined many times by the city for leash laws and too many dogs. You're only allowed to have X amount of dogs in city limits here. This all boiled to a head the day one of them actually caught my brother and bit him on his leg. I won't say how it was done, but to say the least, every one of those dogs died a couple of days later. This was truly a last resort because every other option had been exhausted. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have pets.

In rural NM you can shoot Dogs that are threatening to you or your property/livestock. I still wouldn't recommend it though until you have exhausted all avenues first. The chase the dog home works for most, but dogs can sense fear in humans so the first thing you have to do is show no fear of them. Some people can't do it I usually don't have fear of dogs just respect, but if me and a dog got to fight I am going to kick the She###t out of that pooch! A golf club or stick might be a good deterrent if they don't respect you.....?

 

[nuevomexicano]

This thread reminds me of a problem neighbor we had when we were kids. 2 doors down from my house was this white trash redneck neighbor who had 15 dogs and no gate, all of them were pit/chow mixes. These sumbitches would chase us every time we went past his house on foot or on bike. We called animal control many times, but here animal control is kind of useless, because unless the dogs are in the street they can't catch them. Meaning by law as soon as the dogs stepped foot on any private property, animal control could not legally follow them. We tried talking to the owner. He had been fined many times by the city for leash laws and too many dogs. You're only allowed to have X amount of dogs in city limits here. This all boiled to a head the day one of them actually caught my brother and bit him on his leg. I won't say how it was done, but to say the least, every one of those dogs died a couple of days later. This was truly a last resort because every other option had been exhausted. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to have pets.

In rural NM you can shoot Dogs that are threatening to you or your property/livestock. I still wouldn't recommend it though until you have exhausted all avenues first. The chase the dog home works for most, but dogs can sense fear in humans so the first thing you have to do is show no fear of them. Some people can't do it I usually don't have fear of dogs just respect, but if me and a dog got to fight I am going to kick the She###t out of that pooch! A golf club or stick might be a good deterrent if they don't respect you.....?

A golf club or stick or U-lock is an OK deterrent, but pepper spray is better. Pepper spray can be mounted within quick reach on your bike or bike bag. I was once a Postman and have first hand experience pepper spraying charging dogs. There's a high blood pressure moment when the dog gets it in the eyes and seems like it will continue charging, but then it feels the spray and all comes to a stop. I prefer pepper spray because its so alien to the dog's fighting instinct compared to hitting or kicking.

Plus, I'm not really out to have any fun kicking the dog's ass. The dog is domesticated charge of us people and the owner gets a lesson this way as well. I want the owner to have to wash out it eyes of their howling, squirming dog and just maybe learn something.

 

[Arlo1]

Yup just make your bike faster worked for me!!! I had some frocker chasing me through town in a ford ranger the other day he couldnt catch me. But I pulled off where he couldnt see and I followed him for a while. He was pretty freaked when I showed up at his house!

 

[auraslip]

Good advice dogman. Is there a secret word to tell the dogs so they'll leave me alone?