OptimusPrime
10 W
Reading the forum gives me the impression that putting the controller in a bag is a no no. Given that, what do you do about the rats nest of wires? I want a clean look but need some ideas on how to achieve that. Thanks!
How to mount the darn controller!
- Thread starter OptimusPrime
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Chalo
100 TW
Hiding wires only makes sense if you don't want to get to them. Hiding things that are a functional part of your machine, that have to be there, that must be accessed now and then, in the service of some arbitrary sense of tidiness seems backwards to me. It's what car manufacturers do to obscure the true characteristics of a car. But we don't need to hide our own handiwork from ourselves, do we?
If you carefully crop and terminate all your cables to the correct lengths so they don't have to be looped or scrunched up, the harness looks much better. Multiple wires can be bundled together with a helical or mesh wrap before being tied in place. I favor helical wrap because it's easy to get out of the way for troubleshooting and component replacement. I usually cover unused connectors with heat shrink tubing to keep them clean and insulated.
If you carefully crop and terminate all your cables to the correct lengths so they don't have to be looped or scrunched up, the harness looks much better. Multiple wires can be bundled together with a helical or mesh wrap before being tied in place. I favor helical wrap because it's easy to get out of the way for troubleshooting and component replacement. I usually cover unused connectors with heat shrink tubing to keep them clean and insulated.
80for20
10 W
In the past I've had success "hiding" connections in seatpost bags that I've punched holes in. People expect to see seatpost bags on bikes so I don't think it detracts from the aesthetics.
Chalo / Dogman / others probably think I'm bowing to fashion/the establishment : )
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Chalo / Dogman / others probably think I'm bowing to fashion/the establishment : )
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
teslanv
1 MW
I agree with Chalo, but would add that if feasible, and you have the connectors, shortening the wires to be "just long enough" makes the install a LOT more tidy. A chunk of "lizard Skin" like what's used on DH chain stays, makes a clean covering at the controller's wiring as well.
https://www.amazon.com/Lizard-Skins-Neoprene-Chainstay-Protector/dp/B0186OOBFG/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1493567658&sr=1-1&keywords=Lizard+Skins+neoprene
https://www.amazon.com/Lizard-Skins-Neoprene-Chainstay-Protector/dp/B0186OOBFG/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1493567658&sr=1-1&keywords=Lizard+Skins+neoprene
nutnspecial
10 MW
They have cheapy knockoffs on ebay too. Or an old innertube can be useful too. Op there's a million ways to pull of a clean look, and likely you'll improve on things with each build/ rebuild. Having the wires the correct length is the best way to go, but you'll pickup tricks (like best routing, best place for connections, and best place for a slack loop) along the way. A mistake I've made was opting to reroute my wires or mountings AFTER I shortened the cables lol, so that's the best tip I can give to hopefully avoid the double pita haha.
Last build I moved the controller up for going thru creeks etc, and actually lengthened most control side wires up to the bars where they're more easily waterproofed and hidden imo (and where they're all going anyway). A good collection of heatshrink, jst's, and bullets can do alot, along with a cheap 80w solder gun, a torch and crimpers &strippers. 100$ invested properly will set you up for alot of customizing. Otherwise, yep, just find an accessory bag to hide all the excess stock wiring and big connections. My controller is just mounted with big zip ties btw, tite as a drum. rest perfectly against a set of cable stops under the toptube.
Last build I moved the controller up for going thru creeks etc, and actually lengthened most control side wires up to the bars where they're more easily waterproofed and hidden imo (and where they're all going anyway). A good collection of heatshrink, jst's, and bullets can do alot, along with a cheap 80w solder gun, a torch and crimpers &strippers. 100$ invested properly will set you up for alot of customizing. Otherwise, yep, just find an accessory bag to hide all the excess stock wiring and big connections. My controller is just mounted with big zip ties btw, tite as a drum. rest perfectly against a set of cable stops under the toptube.
hypertoric_amplituhedron
100 W
I didn't make it to the hardware store for some u-bolts, and I had to come up with something to get my controller out of the bag. I wasn't about to fry another controller and leave myself stranded in the middle of the night. So, I came up with this on-the-spot solution, which has worked out pretty well :
I mounted the controller using what I had at the moment: velcro straps from the frame bag. They hold it very securely. I also have it upside down, so I can check the temp any time. It gets a lot of airflow, stays cool, and protected from splashes and sprinklers (but not rain).
Bag zipped up to the wires. You can't see much of any wires anywhere. Looks rather clean, in a retro-fitted kind of way. I love that industrial, electro-punk, retro-fitted look of these custom kits.
I mounted the controller using what I had at the moment: velcro straps from the frame bag. They hold it very securely. I also have it upside down, so I can check the temp any time. It gets a lot of airflow, stays cool, and protected from splashes and sprinklers (but not rain).
Bag zipped up to the wires. You can't see much of any wires anywhere. Looks rather clean, in a retro-fitted kind of way. I love that industrial, electro-punk, retro-fitted look of these custom kits.
MadRhino
100 GW
Yep. Under the top tube is a very good place. I would add: use rubber spacers between the tube and controller body, and a small connection box to keep all connectors dry and discreet.
Chalo
100 TW
I'll add that to my eyes, using all black dual conductor wires, like the stuff made for buried low voltage landscape lighting, looks nicer than red/black or single conductor wires.
The frame bag solution makes me think of Surly's size specific frame bags. They'd be useful for a stealth conversion.
The frame bag solution makes me think of Surly's size specific frame bags. They'd be useful for a stealth conversion.
Wolfeman
1 kW
Grin Tech sells kits for tidying up wires with stretch sleeve, zipties, etc., for black, red, blue, or yellow, IIRC.
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/wiring-accessories/wireroutekit.html
There's also a few threads about hiding the wires, but I didn't see them in a quick title search, so they'd probably take some digging. :/
On my trike I used a single large cable with many conductors (in twisted pairs) to replace all the bajillion little wires for everything, including all my lighting stuff, for the handlebar-to-"hairball" cable, then individual sets of wires spliced to that at the bar/tiller clamp, from the various controls, lights etc.
Wherever I could run a lenght of larger multiconductor cable to replace multiple smaller cables with fewer conductors, I did, and it greatly neatened up the wiring.
However, this kind of combining of wires in one cable can run a risk of failures like fire that probably wouldn't happen with separate cables, in the event of a short at the far end of a cable that connects a high voltage source with a lower voltage one, or like teh case with my 12v lighting system, a short across 12v to ground (or a lower-voltage signal wire, etc) could cause the wires to heat enough to melt all the wires in a cable together, causing all sorts of damage, fire, etc. (assuming no fuses...I've already experienced this once, so I now have fuses in appropriate places at teh power sources).
(there is one case where such shorts do happen, though probably not in teh cable, but rather connector or throttle housing: where the battery voltage meter is inside the throttle housing, so there's battery voltage and 5v and throttle signal (and ground) all together in one wire...there have been multiple reports of system failure, controller / throttle destruction, etc., with this type of setup).
But it can keep the system "tidy".
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/wiring-accessories/wireroutekit.html
There's also a few threads about hiding the wires, but I didn't see them in a quick title search, so they'd probably take some digging. :/
On my trike I used a single large cable with many conductors (in twisted pairs) to replace all the bajillion little wires for everything, including all my lighting stuff, for the handlebar-to-"hairball" cable, then individual sets of wires spliced to that at the bar/tiller clamp, from the various controls, lights etc.
Wherever I could run a lenght of larger multiconductor cable to replace multiple smaller cables with fewer conductors, I did, and it greatly neatened up the wiring.
However, this kind of combining of wires in one cable can run a risk of failures like fire that probably wouldn't happen with separate cables, in the event of a short at the far end of a cable that connects a high voltage source with a lower voltage one, or like teh case with my 12v lighting system, a short across 12v to ground (or a lower-voltage signal wire, etc) could cause the wires to heat enough to melt all the wires in a cable together, causing all sorts of damage, fire, etc. (assuming no fuses...I've already experienced this once, so I now have fuses in appropriate places at teh power sources).
(there is one case where such shorts do happen, though probably not in teh cable, but rather connector or throttle housing: where the battery voltage meter is inside the throttle housing, so there's battery voltage and 5v and throttle signal (and ground) all together in one wire...there have been multiple reports of system failure, controller / throttle destruction, etc., with this type of setup).
But it can keep the system "tidy".
markz
100 TW
TBH Right now I got my controller zip tied on top of the rear rack.
I have a basket made for handle bars, zip tied to the side of the rack. It needed a dozen to hold the battery, 5 did not work originally, yes I was riding when it fell off.
My wires are looped around the handle bars, and the top tube, then zip tied to the rack with the wiring having slack loops.
My other bike, which has the frame area for the battery (crank to head) has my controller metal hose clamped with a bolt through it, just above the front wheel, on the same tube (crank to head). Works well but I need a fender for the front tire, or zip tie controller to top of rear rack.
I have a basket made for handle bars, zip tied to the side of the rack. It needed a dozen to hold the battery, 5 did not work originally, yes I was riding when it fell off.
My wires are looped around the handle bars, and the top tube, then zip tied to the rack with the wiring having slack loops.
My other bike, which has the frame area for the battery (crank to head) has my controller metal hose clamped with a bolt through it, just above the front wheel, on the same tube (crank to head). Works well but I need a fender for the front tire, or zip tie controller to top of rear rack.
OptimusPrime
10 W
Thanks guys! You have all given me ideas and a good starting point to figure out something for my particular set up. I will definitely mount the controller in free air stream but at the same time I wonder how makers like Bafang and Golden Motor can get away with putting their controllers inside the hot motor itself, I would think it's a lot hotter in there than in a bag on the frame.
puregsr
100 W
I'm interested in what everyone dose. There's just no good place to put a large controller and all the wires hanging off of it, especially if you want to ride in the rain.
Johne-bike
10 W
I also like a neat look, yet wanted the Controller out in the air.. Essential in Thailand as the temperature rarely drops below 30c.
The Controller fits neatly behind my battery box, tie wrapped to the side of the seat tube, and on the opposite side I have a large sunglasses case, covered in Carbon Fibre effect vinyl wrap, that acts as the perfect weatherproof terminal box for all the Controller connectors.
On my bike, the frame triangle is very small, so there was no room to include all the connectors from the controller.. There is just room for the batteries inside..
The Controller fits neatly behind my battery box, tie wrapped to the side of the seat tube, and on the opposite side I have a large sunglasses case, covered in Carbon Fibre effect vinyl wrap, that acts as the perfect weatherproof terminal box for all the Controller connectors.
On my bike, the frame triangle is very small, so there was no room to include all the connectors from the controller.. There is just room for the batteries inside..
docw009
10 MW
Very nice build, John.
I'm using the round 9 wire motor connection on my last builds. BMSbattery uses it on their motors anyway, and they give me an extension with the three phase bullets and Hall connector. I run the extension inside the controller. Cleans up the space hogging phase/hall connectors. I also remove any learning, regen, cruise, and light wires that I don't use. No need for two brake connectors. I parallel the brake sensors by the handlebars and run only one line.
Haven't done it yet, but I currently run brake sensor, throttle, and LCD display as three separate cables inside an ugly wire loom back to the controller. They can be put inside one 8 or 9 wire cable, no thicker than a brake housing cable for a clean look. I have not found a suitable weatherproof, small connector yet, so first iteration will use the existing JST type. Granted, if I break something, I have to splice the harness to replace it. I don't mind soldering in the garage during summer. In the winter, I bring the bike indoors and leave burn marks in the flooring.
I'm using the round 9 wire motor connection on my last builds. BMSbattery uses it on their motors anyway, and they give me an extension with the three phase bullets and Hall connector. I run the extension inside the controller. Cleans up the space hogging phase/hall connectors. I also remove any learning, regen, cruise, and light wires that I don't use. No need for two brake connectors. I parallel the brake sensors by the handlebars and run only one line.
Haven't done it yet, but I currently run brake sensor, throttle, and LCD display as three separate cables inside an ugly wire loom back to the controller. They can be put inside one 8 or 9 wire cable, no thicker than a brake housing cable for a clean look. I have not found a suitable weatherproof, small connector yet, so first iteration will use the existing JST type. Granted, if I break something, I have to splice the harness to replace it. I don't mind soldering in the garage during summer. In the winter, I bring the bike indoors and leave burn marks in the flooring.
Chalo
100 TW
OptimusPrime said:
The electronics are mounted in direct contact with an aluminum case, which is in turn exposed to free air. Even if the housing is warm, it can move waste heat out without allowing it to build up to a damaging level (when operated within spec). Remember it's not what's happening most of the time that causes a problem, but occasional peak heating conditions that will damage your controller. Under those conditions, your controller and the air layer around it can become very hot for short periods, without making the bag hot enough to alert you to the problem.
motomech
10 MW
I have been putting my controllers in bags for years and I live in Arizona.
I use controllers that are large for their out-put and have lot's of fin area.
For example, here I use two 9-FET controllers, where for the bike power level, I could have used two 6-FET's;
I have also found that, if one is concerned about controller temp., unzipping the bag part way, even if the opening is out of the direct airstream, will quickly allow the controller to cool down.
I use controllers that are large for their out-put and have lot's of fin area.
For example, here I use two 9-FET controllers, where for the bike power level, I could have used two 6-FET's;
I have also found that, if one is concerned about controller temp., unzipping the bag part way, even if the opening is out of the direct airstream, will quickly allow the controller to cool down.
I mounted my controller under the rear rack. Plenty of air and also conducts heat to the frame. To deal with the giant hairball of wires, I used a plastic project box next to the controller and all the connections are inside. The box is enclosed on the top but has openings on the bottom to allow water to escape.
Attachments
dogman dan
1 PW
My fave is on top of a rear rack, tight up under your ass. connections can often be hid under the seat, a drier place. Seal up the controller if needed, for the rain from above. In motion, your controller will be in the wind shadow of your ass, and water from the wheel will be deflected if you have some kind of fender.
OptimusPrime
10 W
markz
100 TW
Small controllers are great to hide.
If I were you, having a black rack and a silver controller - paint the cont black!!!!
That is what I am going to do.
If I were you, having a black rack and a silver controller - paint the cont black!!!!
That is what I am going to do.
paint one half of a sheet of metal silver or white and the other half black,put in sun for half hour then compare :lol: :lol:
Johne-bike
10 W
On my Fatbike, I have found the KT 45amp Sinewave Controller fits perfectly in the space between the battery box and the rear Fender, mounted to the Seat tube with Heavy duty black cable ties. I specifically ordered it in black Anodised finish to blend in with my bike.
For all the Controller connections and plugs, I haven't room inside the battery box, so I found an unused, reasonably large metal sunglasses case, which covered in black carbon fibre vinyl wrap, fits to the opposite side of the seat tube to the Controller, and neatly swallows all my connections. Also very easy to open the lid to reach the connectors for servicing.
For all the Controller connections and plugs, I haven't room inside the battery box, so I found an unused, reasonably large metal sunglasses case, which covered in black carbon fibre vinyl wrap, fits to the opposite side of the seat tube to the Controller, and neatly swallows all my connections. Also very easy to open the lid to reach the connectors for servicing.
If you think hiding a controller on a bike is fun, try it on a tadpole trike.
Begins with every cable is the wrong length. And every LBS in America will choose to put the battery in the worst possible place, above the rear tire.
I use the Phaserunner which is a small package, and its attached to the battery tray which is mounted under the Boom.
Currently developing an under-boom mount for a Shark case battery that also has a mount for the display (CA3), and a small enclosure as an "interconnect cabinet". No pics yet, its still only in SolidWorks at this point.
Begins with every cable is the wrong length. And every LBS in America will choose to put the battery in the worst possible place, above the rear tire.
I use the Phaserunner which is a small package, and its attached to the battery tray which is mounted under the Boom.
Currently developing an under-boom mount for a Shark case battery that also has a mount for the display (CA3), and a small enclosure as an "interconnect cabinet". No pics yet, its still only in SolidWorks at this point.
molybdenum
1 kW
Well, if it isn't getting hot, then why not...
And the top compartment makes handy storage for allen keys, patch kit, etc..
And the top compartment makes handy storage for allen keys, patch kit, etc..
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