Hub motor noise

[Eastwood]

Oh boy, I was afraid of this. The rub mark now makes me wonder about the bearings. Particularly the one on the side where the rub mark is. Maybe when you energize, the whole stator tilts a hair, causing the rub and the click? But if so, where's the statorade leak? bearing bad but the seal is good?

Something loose on the stator itself, should be grunting like hell when you run it.

That leaves the freewheel. Its going to be close enough to the motor to fool. But I've seen noises seem to come from all over the bike, only to be somewhere else. Sounds like the BB, but its the freewheel. etc.

Yeah the bearing could possibly be the issue. The bearing on the non-rubbing side seems to be good but I haven’t checked the other one yet. And yes there’s no statoraid leaking but I did somewhat flip the bike at a low speed and the rear wheel hit the ground hard so it could’ve bent the bearings but the seals are still good. That happened maybe four months ago. I’m not sure exactly when that clicking noise started but it’s it’s slightly got worse as of lately. Also to note I’m running more current now than I was previously so that would make sense that is causing more rubbing.

Also when I said I flipped the bike I was basically doing an Endo but the weight of the hub motor got past the balance point and I tipped The bike over and it landed on the tire but I’m just speculating that could’ve possibly bent the bearings. Maybe the impact wasn’t hard enough. Most of the impact landed on my butt lol as I flipped with the bike so I didn’t land on my face lol
Sidenote I bought a full face helmet the next day haha

 

[Chalo]

While you have the thing open, it makes sense to replace the bearings (and use retaining compound if they are loose in their bores). Looseness in the bearings or bearing seats would be my first suspect if I found the rotor touching the stator.

 

[Eastwood]

While you have the thing open, it makes sense to replace the bearings (and use retaining compound if they are loose in their bores). Looseness in the bearings or bearing seats would be my first suspect if I found the rotor touching the stator.

Yeah good point Chalo, I’ll get some new bearings. Also I have been eyeing those phase wires too, but that seems quite the job squeezing the wires through the axle. Still contemplating whether I will upgrade the wires or not.

 

[markz]

It is quite the job shoving big wires through the axle, then dealing with the 90 degree bend.
Have to attack it at both ends and whatever works, works.
I've never been able to find wire with thin insulation, I found PTFE Teflon wire that was slick and had to use pliers to hold, shove, push, squeeze do whatever it takes.

I've had some slight rubbing marks like that, but I also had bad bearings and cant remember seeing those marks before or after, on my cooked mxus 45H (3kw) v2. On that I let it go to long, just like my rear bicycle wheel hub I let go for to long with its loose cups, gouging the races up pretty good, its to short O.L.D. anyways.

 

[Eastwood]

I've never been able to find wire with thin insulation,

Yeah I remember watching a YouTube video where a guy actually stripped all the insulation off the wires and heat shrink with a much thinner insulation. Then he was able to fit much thicker gauge wires. Need to find that video again.

But I’m only pushing 80 A right now so it’s not a must. If I had the 150 amp Sabvoton I would definitely upgrade to thicker phase wires.

 

[Eastwood]

it makes sense to replace the bearings (and use retaining compound if they are loose in their bores)

There’s rust around the shaft and on the bearing. The bearing itself seems to move freely and I don’t feel any wiggle. Now under load maybe there could be some play do you think that’s possible? I don’t feel any play with moving the bearing with my finger but under 6.7 kW maybe there is Some wiggle and that’s causing the stator to strike the rotor?

 

[dogman dan]

Ignore that noise long enough, it may become easier to see what the problem is. But that rub mark on the magnets may be an earlier indicator of bearing worn, than you can tell by wiggling it.

I'd be ignoring it awhile myself, by this point.

 

[Eastwood]

So I ordered this bearing, says it will be here tomorrow.
Do you think this is suitable or you guys recommend any better bearings?

Its lacking the last letter which is “V” not sure if that will matter?

uxcell 60/22-2RS Deep Groove Ball Bearings Z2 22mm x 44mm x 12mm Double Sealed Chrome Steel https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082PSB2HG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_M2WY7NJ5WKPSN0JJEDBY

 

[Eastwood]

Ignore that noise long enough, it may become easier to see what the problem is. But that rub mark on the magnets may be an earlier indicator of bearing worn, than you can tell by wiggling it.

I'd be ignoring it awhile myself, by this point.

Yeah I considered ignoring it but the clicking sound was so distinct I didn’t want to make it worse or have a malfunction at high speeds you know. At this point I believe the single click noise is the stator touching the magnets when power is first engaged. Whether that’s caused by the bearings or not we’ll find out soon
just ordered both bearings for each side and they’ll be here tomorrow thanks to Amazon! Lol
I’m hoping that this uxcell brand bearing is OK
The other side Is Timken bearing which I’m familiar with that brand they seem good

 

[ZeroEm]

I grew up knowing Timken :wink:

In 1898, Henry Timken obtained a patent for an improved tapered roller bearing

 

[Eastwood]

Look at the stator real good. I don't know can the Laminations come lose?

OK so I did find some damage on the stator
It looks like the lamination has separated at the very edge on a couple of places and it’s actually slightly higher than the rest of the stator. This probably happened when the stator struck the magnets caused by faulty bearing.

So should I try to squeeze the lamination back together and Sand the raised part so it’s even with the rest of the lamination?. I’m assuming this would prevent any of the rubbing and then also with changing the bearings it should rotate evenly now. I’ll post pics

 

[ZeroEm]

I'm out of my depth here. It just needs to clear a .01 may do it or just the new bearings may do it.

 

[Eastwood]

I'm out of my depth here. It just needs to clear a .01 may do it or just the new bearings may do it.

So I used a fine file to cleaned it up a bit and made it level. It didn’t need much, just a few spots that were slightly raised.
But yeah just doing the bearings probably would be sufficient, they’ll be here tomorrow.

 

[markz]

My old mxus 45H had some worse lam's then yours, mine probably scared up the magnets a bit but there was no sound, or I just couldn't hear the sound over the trapezoid controller sound, or tire noise. I still got it as a door jam, nice dark colored windings showing themselves.

 

[Eastwood]

I still got it as a door jam, nice dark colored windings showing themselves.

Nice doorstop! Lol
What’s your current set up? Did you move on from the mxus 3K?

So I’ve decided to upgrade the phase wires to 8 AWG
BUT, only from the controller to the outside of the axle. I needed to shorten my phase wires anyway so I figured I would at least upgrade from the outside of the axle to the controller.

Also had another interesting finding inside my motor, there are no thermal resistors and now I understand why I could never get it to read a temperature lol they just have the white wire going through the axle but it’s cut and there’s no thermal resistors attached near the windings. So yeah I ordered some thermal resistor last night to install and I considered using the one I can’t remember the name but the sensor that works with the CA 3. Maybe I will install both to leave option to get a CA 3 in the future.

Hahaha got that idea from some old Topic on here. Thanks spinningmagnets! I never thought about just upgrading the wires outside the axle so I’ll give it a shot.
Plan to use these connectors and terminals

There is a benefit to squeezing-in the fattest wires that can fit from the inside of the motor to the outside. Then, there is a benefit to making the three phase wires fatter as soon as they exit the motor, all the way up to the controller.

Outside the motor, you can go to a fatter wire of any type, like the affordable hobby king silicone-insulation wire.

 

[Greendog]

Was there any discernable play in bearings hope don't go through trouble of new bearings and wire upgrade and find the side plate is bent from the accident as bearing is probably stronger than sideplate good luck interested to know if filing solved click issue was

 

[Eastwood]

side plate is bent from the accident as bearing is probably stronger than sideplate

Yeah great point. Just checked the side plate and took some measurements and it seems to be still true.

Was there any discernable play in bearings

The old bearing don’t roll smoothly and there feels like there might be the slightest amount of play but it’s hard to tell. I’m hoping this will be the fix but the bearings are pretty cheap so it’s worth a shot.

Also note the hub motor is performing perfectly normal, it’s just that single click right when I first engage the throttle. So worst case scenario I don’t fix the noise I can still use the motor as is and keep scratching my head trying to figure it out :lol:

 

[dogman dan]

Looks like you found it, the bearing is not rolling smooth. Mashed something in there in the crash.

 

[Eastwood]

Looks like you found it, the bearing is not rolling smooth. Mashed something in there in the crash.

Yes I’m hoping that was the issue
Will find out soon and hopefully I’ll have everything put back together tomorrow, waiting for the statoraid to be delivered. I was happy to see grind technology sells there ferrofluid on Amazon

My plan now is to use a little flux on the wire, then crimp, then fill is much solder I can in the open gaps of the terminals. Does this sound like the best connection?
And look at the massive difference compared to the old phase wire connectors :lol: :lol:

 

[Voltron]

My motor got hot enough to melt the solder out into the windings...

And late now, but be ready for the terminals to corrode outdoors, unless you keep them really smeared up with dielectric grease or something.
If it's not too late, they make pre-tinned ones for marine use, and heat shrink with an adhesive inner layer like hot glue, that really keeps everything out weatherwise...

 

[Eastwood]

My motor got hot enough to melt the solder out into the windings...

Yikes!

but be ready for the terminals to corrode outdoors, unless you keep them really smeared up with dielectric grease or something.
If it's not too late, they make pre-tinned ones for marine use

Yeah I considered getting pre-tinned ones but went with the pure copper as this bike is never exposed to moist conditions. Also gotta love the look of the pure copper right? :lol:

hot enough to melt the solder

Yeah considered no solder and just crimping. That being said the old phase wires didn’t get too hot so they should be able to handle some solder. Main goal Is to maximize efficiency and maybe help with voltage sag. But yeah I’m still contemplating whether I should just crimp or crimp plus Solder

 

[Eastwood]

Does this look like a decent spot where I installed the thermal resistor? I figured I would use some high temp gasket/sealant to glue it in place

 

[Eastwood]

OK speak now or forever hold your peace :lol:
Well I glued it on top of the hall sensor wires because it has that little string in place to help hold it down.

Used JB Weld high temp red silicone gasket/sealant. It has a temperature rating of 650° F

 

[m3vuv]

so what was the upshot of this or just another unfinished thread leaving everyone up in the air to know what caused the issue and or cured it???.

 

[Eastwood]

Fixed!! clicking noise is gone 8)

So basically the bearings in the side plate covers were damaged. This resulted in the stator touching the magnets when the throttle was first engaged. Thankfully it didn’t scratch and chip the magnets to bad. Did some test riding today works like new again

The new 8AWG phase wires are a huge difference,
The old phase wires and connections were way too thin for 150phase amps. Also my battery connection was an XT60 which is too small for 80amps so I upgraded to Powerpole Connectors. Now there’s less voltage drop and less heat being built up in the motor. Before this motor I was only pushing 50amps that’s why the old connectors were undersized. Now my set up is running much more efficient.

Put 6 ml of statoraid In this time and previously had almost 8ml and I could slightly feel a drag so I opted for less this time. I was able to seal the side plate covers with high temp gasket so now I know it’s waterproof. Mxus does a horrible job trying to seal these covers. Mine only had glue in some of the places lol this resulted in a lot of statorade leaking out.

Well long story short the hub motor is now working properly with no clicking. I created many extra hours of work doing these extra upgrades lol I figured since I was at it, might as well do it right and I’m glad I did based on the testing. As mentioned above also installed a thermal resistor.