Hubmonster 94% efficient 7kw NO LONGER FOR SALE

[minde28383]

It's so hard to believe that hubs are made worse today than they were ten years ago.
If you after efficiency than use low Kv hub and run it high voltage battery, over 100v. But you won't reach 94%.
According simulator low Kv hub is slightly more efficient compared with high Kv hub.

 

[John in CR]

aw damn. sounds like the monsters were the best. i thought to get one but the cast hub diddnt appeal to me at the time...

All hubmotors have some cast parts. Probably too much focus on weight, though that didn't stop people from thinking crap-lyte were something special. The shell of all 3 Monster models can be trimmed down quite a bit, but the shell isn't where the real weight is. It's primarily in the stator. If you want a powerful low rpm motor that's still capable of rpm greater than 1000, then weight is unavoidable. There was also the MidMonster that has an aluminum shell (only 1 side cover) with the magnet backing ring cast into the aluminum.

Efficiency is king for all of our motors. Low resistance makes high current possible without heat problems, and low no-load current means efficient at cruise. No other hubbie has come remotely close. Probably the best option now is the large diameter QS motors, the 273 that can be a torque beast enabling a larger diameter wheel to get reasonable speed, or their 260 that interests me most due to the lower slot and pole counts which should mean better rpm than the 273. Both of those options are significantly heavier than HubMonster.

The only option now, which was always the cheapest, is to look to the used market like EG did to get his 2, though it baffles me why he's wasting time with proven to be low performing outrunners instead of getting silent reliable fun transportation going first.

 

[Armicb]

Hi everybody,

I have a couple of lectric urban motorcycles which have these motors and I was able to rescue a couple of them from the scrapyard last year. If anybody is interested in getting one of them PM me.

I'm located in Spain, so probably sending them to Europe would not be very expensive.
Cheers

 

[ridethelightning]

pm sent

 

[Armicb]

If the PM was sent to me it didn't reach its destination.

 

[ridethelightning]

sorry. try that it now. diddnt send before somehow

 

[suecy]

@Armicb Pm sent

@John in CR can you give us a rough ballpark for the required license fees for 75 to 150 motors?

 

[Armicb]

Attached some pics of the bikes and the motors

 

[tahitiboob]

me too pm send

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Attached some pics of the bikes and the motors

Hi don't see the pictures, sorry. I am in London UK.

 

[markz]

I would look into either the MXUS 5000W motor or the QS 273 6000W motors.

The MXUS 5000W motor requires a wider dropout of 165mm I do believe.

 

[tahitiboob]

I had to make this choice too and I left on the qs273 in 17 inches 3.5t because impossible to have a return on the mxu 5k
on my bike I had a qs205 a sabvoton speed max 80km / h and I changed the engine qs273 without changing the parameter I am at 100 km / h

 

[John in CR]

My HubMonster powered MadAss based ebike will do over 170kph. How much over I don't even know, maybe even a bit over 180kph if I can get in a good enough tuck, though I may have to redo my kickstand a foot peg assembly as well as install a small fairing to reach 180. FWIW I don't run field weakening or any type of overspeed.

 

[John in CR]

If you after efficiency than use low Kv hub and run it high voltage battery, over 100v. But you won't reach 94%.
According simulator low Kv hub is slightly more efficient compared with high Kv hub.

Wrong. Please don't post nonsense like that in this thread.

 

[Armicb]

Now I´ve done it right: see the pictures. As you can see there is no wear in the discs...

 

[John in CR]

Armicb,

Unless you marked them, you're going to have a tough time figuring out which set of halls go to which set of phases. FWIW, the motor will run either way, but the 3° advance of having them wrong will reduce torque and increase sound and heat. It will get a bit higher kv with them wrong, so that's one way to figure it out. The motor runs fine on just half, so do one controller at a time.

 

[larsb]

My HubMonster powered MadAss based ebike will do over 170kph

Cheesus, what kV are these hubs?
And were the scooters speed restricted originally, they weren't sold with those kinds of speeds? What battery original, what battery do you have John?

 

[minde28383]

If you after efficiency than use low Kv hub and run it high voltage battery, over 100v. But you won't reach 94%.
According simulator low Kv hub is slightly more efficient compared with high Kv hub.

Wrong. Please don't post nonsense like that in this thread.

Not sure what you didn't like so much but it must be something enormously hudge.

 

[larsb]

I guess it was that you recommended something incorrect?

 

[minde28383]

Don't know. Can't answer that.

 

[larsb]

Yes, efficiency is not related to kV or voltage, but it's offtopic in this thread. If you want to then search for "the myth" thread

 

[John in CR]

My HubMonster powered MadAss based ebike will do over 170kph

Cheesus, what kV are these hubs?
And were the scooters speed restricted originally, they weren't sold with those kinds of speeds? What battery original, what battery do you have John?

18rpm/v . The factory scoots were too heavy to run high current and high voltage, so they ran 60V or 72V. I'm running 115V nominal with a 20.5" OD tire. Current is 135A peak from each controller, which requires my air cooling mods that generally keep the stator less than 70°C. When I ride really hard it goes to 90° or so, and as high as 100°C on long really steep mountain ascents.

 

[John in CR]

Yes, efficiency is not related to kV or voltage, but it's offtopic in this thread. If you want to then search for "the myth" thread

Actually, because cogging losses are mostly fixed, increasing voltage commonly increases the peak efficiency of the motor. That doesn't necessarily mean in real use that you can achieve that peak efficiency, but that's because wind resistance increases geometrically, so peak motor efficiency may never be achieved. You can verify this effect playing around with Miles' motor spreadsheet, which demonstrates that HubMonster has a peak efficiency at the voltages I run of almost 96%.

While peak efficiency isn't a very meaningful number in and of itself. It's the best indicator or motor quality, because of what it takes to reach high efficiency. That is a combination of low winding resistance and low no-load losses, which are both required to achieve high torque and high speed. The less heat you make, the higher power you can run.

 

[larsb]

Cogging losses: do you mean the losses due to torque ripple? Should be proportional to torque level?

No load losses (if that's what you mean) are related to rpm, so for a fixed hub kV there is an optimum rpm and voltage, not "higher is better"

Do you mean something else?

 

[John in CR]

Cogging losses: do you mean the losses due to torque ripple? Should be proportional to torque level?

No load losses (if that's what you mean) are related to rpm, so for a fixed hub kV there is an optimum rpm and voltage, not "higher is better"

Do you mean something else?

There's a portion of the iron losses that I think Justin called cogging losses, which start at low rpm and quickly flatten out. Above that point the iron losses increase in a generally linear manner with rpm. I could very well be incorrect in the terminology, but it's something quite noticeable any time you try to pedal through an unpowered DD hubbie. Maybe cogging torque is what he called it. In any event, it's something that plateaus and has to be overcome just to spin a motor. The result in terms of peak efficiency, which is the point where iron losses and copper losses are equal, is that up to a certain point peak efficiency of a motor increases slightly with voltage.