HubMonster hits 107mph on the flats on page 6

[John in CR]

must have scared the crap out of the cyclist going up that hill. awesome.

you are probably going to fast hear the swear words as you zip past.

I was way over in the other lane, so why would that scare them? They're used to getting buzzed by cars less than a foot away. Plus most within a 10 mile radius have seen me plenty, though few have seen those kinds of speeds.

 

[steveo]

Hey john

Do you have any nice photos you can share of how you did your cooling?

I want to cool mine also .. Eventually

Here is a pic of the tire and rim finally mounted.. Not balanced yet..

I wana put it on a bike.. Just have not decided what yet.. Most likley a modified bicycle

Steveo

 

[John in CR]

I've shared it some, but I have a fresh motor that I want to make refinements to the ventilation approach that will make it both easier and better. I'll do a full writeup and lots of pics of the process. I want to avoid sharing something already obsolete. I also have some tricks to improve the one I'm running now.

It looks like you have the biggest 13 they make. What is it, almost 22" in diameter? It gives you a 10-15% load handicap compared to the one I'm running, so keep your build light and sleek through the air. Everyone else so far is putting them on heavy stuff and ending up with a bigger load that fat old me + bike. I'm waiting someone to do a light bike and experience more than the good stuff I get. :lol:

John

Hey john

Do you have any nice photos you can share of how you did your cooling?

I want to cool mine also .. Eventually

Here is a pic of the tire and rim finally mounted.. Not balanced yet..

I wana put it on a bike.. Just have not decided what yet.. Most likley a modified bicycle

Steveo

 

[dan974]

Hi John, do you have a left regen throttle or did you just keep the button on left hand ?

 

[John in CR]

Hi John, do you have a left regen throttle or did you just keep the button on left hand ?

I have 2 regens. Half of the motor regens via an ebrake handle, and the other half is engaged by a horn button I have on the left side. Right now I have them set the same, so I have 2 levels of regen (one or both together). The brake handle activated one gets used more, and that controller runs hotter, so I'll probably lower the regen force setting on that one, which will give me 3 levels of regen braking force....soft via the brake handle, medium via the button only, and stronger via both. Variable would be better, but it's better than single force regen.

John

 

[wojtek]

cool video!
i like especially your cycling shoes

Marzocchi 888 RC3 EVO Titanium

Are you happy with them? i have a chance to get Marzocchi 888 RC3 EVO Titanium 2011, hardly used for 550eur.. Was initially waiting for new dual disc brake DNM but considering those now too...

keep on speeding

 

[d h zehrbach]

john

Good read. Now that you are going so fast you might consider a look at tires. At ZEV (Z Electric Vehicle), when we got going 80 and higher on our production electric scooters we got nervous about the tires and various certification body raised the issue. Normal scooter tires like come on standard Chinese scoots are not good for speed. We have 13 inch tires now that are rated to 94 mph design speed and tested at 150 mph (P) as part of the certification. They have a high load rating also with a rated load capacity index of 60 for 531 lbs of load. The tires are in the parts list available to anyone.

The tires are 130/60-13 gumballs. Some of the Chinese tires are 130/70s for a taller diameter by about an inch. The lower sidewall /60s will take some of the load off as you mentioned.

D H Zehrbach

 

[John in CR]

cool video!
i like especially your cycling shoes

Marzocchi 888 RC3 EVO Titanium

Are you happy with them? i have a chance to get Marzocchi 888 RC3 EVO Titanium 2011, hardly used for 550eur.. Was initially waiting for new dual disc brake DNM but considering those now too...

keep on speeding

Sorry I missed the post. The 888's I have on the bike now isn't the titanium set that I just got in. The 888 RC3 Titanium I have is a huge step up from the plain Jane 888's I have on the bike now. I'm preparing a motorcycle wheel with drum brake to go in the Ti 888's and hope to have it mounted this weekend. Spacers, bearings, and brake anchoring have been a headache, but it looks like it's going to fit nicely. That bike tire on the front has been a real concern for me at high speed, so I'll be glad to get that wheel off. I also look forward to the additional adjustments the new fork has over the limited options on my old 888's.

John

 

[John in CR]

john

Good read. Now that you are going so fast you might consider a look at tires. At ZEV (Z Electric Vehicle), when we got going 80 and higher on our production electric scooters we got nervous about the tires and various certification body raised the issue. Normal scooter tires like come on standard Chinese scoots are not good for speed. We have 13 inch tires now that are rated to 94 mph design speed and tested at 150 mph (P) as part of the certification. They have a high load rating also with a rated load capacity index of 60 for 531 lbs of load. The tires are in the parts list available to anyone.

The tires are 130/60-13 gumballs. Some of the Chinese tires are 130/70s for a taller diameter by about an inch. The lower sidewall /60s will take some of the load off as you mentioned.

D H Zehrbach

Thanks for the info. I don't ride regularly at those high speeds. It's really to show the guys what the motor is capable of. Tire quality is quite variable. I bought a couple of 13's of another brand and both tires were badly out of round and useless for even 50mph. Even with it well balanced it still bounced like mad.

I'm looking forward to putting my 16" wheel in use, which has a more normal motorcycle street tire instead of the heavy scooter tire. Then with a moto tire in front maybe I'll have more confidence for harder riding in video's.

John

edit- I just checked and my tire has an M rating, which is 130kph, 80mph, and a 206kg, 453lb, load rating. I'm sure I'm within the margins since I so rarely exceed the speed rating.

 

[Whiplash]

Lol only the hub monster bikes have to check THE SPEED RATING of their BICYCLE'S tires! I'm DYING to get my lil guy going!! Can anyone tell me where I can buy another day or two each week??

 

[cal3thousand]

Lol only the hub monster bikes have to check THE SPEED RATING of their BICYCLE'S tires! I'm DYING to get my lil guy going!! Can anyone tell me where I can buy another day or two each week??

Check into the stuff Breaking Bad is all about... the blue stuff



^That's a joke... drug are bad... mmmmkay?

 

[Whiplash]

LOL, yeah it might work but it'd be hard to solder or TIG weld SSSSHHHAAAKKIINNNNGGG around! LOL!

 

[h0tr0d]

Congrats John!

 

[John in CR]

I finally got on the highway with little enough traffic to do a speed run. It turns out that I didn't need to increase voltage or tire size to beat a Brammo. With some new batteries in a portion of my pack the voltage was stiffer. Minimum voltage was 105V. At about 30 seconds I think this may be the longest I've held the throttle pegged to WOT.

Sorry about the video. The camera mount is anchored to something with too much flex when wind hits the camera. I'll do another run as soon as I can, and squeeze another 1 or 2 mph or so out of it simply by charging to 4.2V/cell and hauling the bike to the start line instead of riding it there.

[youtube]43RqRBZ1Vro[/youtube]

 

[Whiplash]

Incredible John!

 

[cwah]

Aaaaahhhh.... I want one

 

[liveforphysics]

Awesome! Wow! Hubmonster is the king of hubmotors.

Fantastic, fast, silent, reliable and thrilling vehicle my friend!

 

[steveo]

i still have to figure out what im doing with my motor..

im thinking modified bmx frame.. similar to lfp bike...

something steel i can weld to

steveo

 

[John in CR]

Awesome! Wow! Hubmonster is the king of hubmotors.

Fantastic, fast, silent, reliable and thrilling vehicle my friend!

Thanks. My SuperV bows only to Deathbike. I can't believe I'm the only one to put Hubmonster on a fairly light bike. Everyone is putting them on motorcycle conversions and they end up with heavier total loads that I run with fat me aboard.

I don't know how much longer I can resist the 10s 65-130C Nanotechs listed in the liquidation section. Can you ask you buddy if there's something wrong or did they just overstock the inventory? I'd probably pick up another 5mph due to less sag. I could also really lighten my bike and only put 10ah on the bike permanently, and I could easily shoehorn 10ah of 30s in the swingarm battbox. Then I could get rid of the ugliness up front. I can manhandle it around ok, but I do miss the lightness of when I had nothing in front. Plus I can install the moto wheel with drum that I have ready for the front, and still lose close to 10kg of weight. Then make the other 5ah30s X 2 easy on/off as needed for long rides.

Here's what she looks like now, so you can imagine what going to stock bicycle (other than the solid core main tube) up front would do.

 

[John in CR]

i still have to figure out what im doing with my motor..
im thinking modified bmx frame.. similar to lfp bike...
something steel i can weld to
steveo

I just made a steel swingarm out of angle iron to extend the wheelbase and give me enclosed battery area. You'll need great roads for Hubmonster in a hardtail. She's wound for speed with a Kv of 16rpm/volt, so don't worry about trying to set the COG way forward like LFPs Deathbike. You have other motors for spinning tires with barely controllable launches, and trying to push current to levels to achieve that kind of first wheel rotation performance will give you heat problems.

Where HubMonster excels is in efficiency, speed, and silence. I suggest keeping the total load (bike and rider) below 180kg (400lb) for best performance. Low and long and sleek through the air gives you highway speeds with under 100V.

Consider a pair of air scoops like I put on my swingarm for looks that serve a useful purpose by bringing extra air flow toward the motor. Sure HubMonster is more efficient than other hubbies, but when you start pushing 15-20kw into it or 25-30kw, then there's multiple kw of heat to dissipate from less surface area than typical hubbies. Heat is our enemy and our limitation, and it must be considered and respected. Mine is open with fan blades on the exhaust side, so I pull fresh air through and across the outside of the shell for worry-free thermal operation, but that includes mountains, not hills, and a fat rider.

John

 

[Doctorbass]

Congrat John!

The bike look terrific!

Even if you can find a TRUE camera that will really show the speed you run at... i saw that kind of wobble image due to poor frame rate and compression. it look like you go to max 100kmh with the actual camera but i believe you about the 100+ mph, you have the right setup to acheive that..

Now grab one of these Gopro and show is the true speed your bike reach !!

here is what look like a ebike ride with a gopro!: it,s me on teh front and Bikeraider helmet gopro cam :

jump to 12:45

[youtube]w0hD4PgW-6c[/youtube]

Doc

 

[steveo]

i still have to figure out what im doing with my motor..
im thinking modified bmx frame.. similar to lfp bike...
something steel i can weld to
steveo

I just made a steel swingarm out of angle iron to extend the wheelbase and give me enclosed battery area. You'll need great roads for Hubmonster in a hardtail. She's wound for speed with a Kv of 16rpm/volt, so don't worry about trying to set the COG way forward like LFPs Deathbike. You have other motors for spinning tires with barely controllable launches, and trying to push current to levels to achieve that kind of first wheel rotation performance will give you heat problems.

Where HubMonster excels is in efficiency, speed, and silence. I suggest keeping the total load (bike and rider) below 180kg (400lb) for best performance. Low and long and sleek through the air gives you highway speeds with under 100V.

Consider a pair of air scoops like I put on my swingarm for looks that serve a useful purpose by bringing extra air flow toward the motor. Sure HubMonster is more efficient than other hubbies, but when you start pushing 15-20kw into it or 25-30kw, then there's multiple kw of heat to dissipate from less surface area than typical hubbies. Heat is our enemy and our limitation, and it must be considered and respected. Mine is open with fan blades on the exhaust side, so I pull fresh air through and across the outside of the shell for worry-free thermal operation, but that includes mountains, not hills, and a fat rider.

John

i really like where you have your batteries mounted in the swing arm...

do you have any more photos of how you built that arm..

i'd like to use the ideas for my build

-steveo

 

[Jolly Jumper]

Nice hubmonster bicylcle.
I guess faux pedaling is not needed in the paradise

Hase this hub a drumbrake?
Is the battery in the swing arm more unsprung wight?

 

[John in CR]

JollyJumper,

Believe me, at over 100mph all I think about is keeping that front wheel steady and straight, not something that is sure to cause a slight weight change or probably an even greater effect by changing left/right aerodynamic forces, so no faux pedaling for me.

I never installed a chain because I didn't want the clicking of a freewheel, the risk of a freewheel locking up at speed, or lead anyone looking at the bike to look at it and think it's chain driven. I like leaving them guessing. I built it to retain the option of a pedal line, but the saddle's way too low for anyone but a little kid to pedal. It's classified the same as a bicycle or pedal or push cart even without a chain, so why bother?

HubMonsters are set up for disc brakes. I need to stop procrastinating and install mine, so I can do the awesome climb to the wind turbines on top of the ridge near the house. I went part way up in October and turned back due to threatening weather, but got rained on anyway after walking the bike down 2.5km of solid 20% grade when it turned out I didn't have enough brakes for the task. No way I was going to find out how much regen would keep the speed down on that kind of grade especially with some of the blind curves involved. The road is gorgeous and new, so I need to get a video of the climb and view from the top to share, especially since no one has posted a video of anything even close to a climb like this.


SteveO,
I owe you some ventilation pics too. Now that rainy season is essentially over I'm coming out of my cave and getting back on track. I'll get some good pics of the swingarm inside and out, when I pull the battery to permanently wire it after running some cycles on it to make sure all of the cells are good. I'm still toying with the idea of getting enough of the 65-130C Nanotechs to safely run just 10ah, and fit it all in the swingarm. Either way I'll have it open and bare for pics. You can see the general shape, which is made primarily with angle iron. The sides are thin plywood. The bottom is thick plywood that the battery is bolted solidly to, which is bolted solidly to angle iron. The scoops and front piece are sheet metal that are bolted on. The top is 1mm aluminum sheet backed on the inside with foamcore, and it's held on with wingnuts for easy access to the battery and motor harness.

John

 

[John in CR]

Congrat John!

The bike look terrific!

Even if you can find a TRUE camera that will really show the speed you run at... i saw that kind of wobble image due to poor frame rate and compression. it look like you go to max 100kmh with the actual camera but i believe you about the 100+ mph, you have the right setup to acheive that..

Now grab one of these Gopro and show is the true speed your bike reach !!

here is what look like a ebike ride with a gopro!: it,s me on teh front and Bikeraider helmet gopro cam :

Doc

Thanks Doc,

I have a GoPro Hero2, but lately I've just been clipping on my Midland XTC which does 720p. What resolution do you use for your GoPro, and what do you convert to for loading onto YouTube? What I've done with the GoPro looses too much in the conversions to get it on YouTube, but the Midland I can just record and upload. A big part of the problem was the shaking at the camera mount, and then I tried the anti shaking conversion on youtube which stabilized it pretty well though it makes my fork tubes look like an acid trip.

Better resolution will be great, but sense of speed comes more from motion relative to other objects. eg The guardrail posts and zooming by others in such close proximate in your video is what gives the perception of speed. I'll try my camera closer to the ground, but I'm sticking with wide open space for top speed runs.

FWIW, I think my 172kph may have been wind aided, but I forgot to reset the CA to get the return run speed. I need to move my CA to a position I can view it while doing these runs. Then when I get to max speed I'll immediately brake and see what I can get the highest 0 to max and back to 0 average speed I can get. The run above had an average speed of 93kph over 1.5km, but much of that distance was slowing to partial throttle and then mostly coasting to a stop. I really need to get an Ebikes.ca datalogger, because there's a lot of inprogress data I'd like to get. I really only know peak and average data. I have very little idea what power I consume at any given speed, or at top speed for that matter. I would also be nice to log the data to see the effects of different riding positions, and different aero treatments I want to add.

With improved aero I'll be able to greatly increase top speed. The motor doesn't seem stressed at all on the flats. That 13" scooter rim has a tire that ends up just under 19.25" in diameter, but I have a 16" moto rim that I modded to fit Hubmonster and it's tire puts it at over 22". That would put me close to 200kph with some aero treatments and maybe a bit stiffer battery packs, and while I couldn't run it in the mountains, the motor would be fine on mostly flat roads.

I have another HubMonster itching to run, and I also have the sister rim to the 16" that's a 15", but requires a larger tire, so as long as I address aero and have enough in the way of batteries, I can do a 200kph capable emoto with 2wd and silent hubmotors that won't be afraid of the mountains. Since I'm already past 170kph with 0 aero treatments, 200kph using a larger wheel isn't just talk either.

Now that I'm in the mood for challenges, why you post something for me to top? 8)