Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Alright you lot, quit pissing in my pocket, this thread isnt waterproof :p
Speaking of one liners, my favourite quote of late is from iron man 3
"is that all you've got, a cheap trick and a cheesy one liner?"
"Honey, that could be the name of my autobiography"
*BOOM*
Heh

Rix I meant to ask you before, how did you find the rear suspension when you swapped over to the moto rim and tyre ?
I haven't touched any settings on mine and it actually feels better than before. I guess it's the heavier weight but it feels less springy than before. Still plush but less rebound type "boingyness". It's especially nice when you belt over speed bumps etc at speed, it feels much more like a motorcyle. Maybe it's actually the stiffer side wall moto tyres ?

In other news I finally kicked my new black and gold commuter to life last night, took it for a spin up the street and back and the motor was slightly louder than I remember and continued to make noise even when I backed off. I thought it was the clutch at first but what ever it was I actually liked it. Not as cool sounding as the zero but it had a scifi kinda quality to it. I then realised it was the rear brake line was ever so slightly rubbing on the fine almost slick edge of the crazy bob tyre causing the noise :lol: Like the old card in the spokes trick but clipping the edge of the tyre actually gave it quite an electric sound. Ah well, you win some, you lose some :p
Also in the losing column it seems my avid code brakes that have only 1 ride on them have shit themselves :x
 
Hyena said:
Alright you lot, quit pissing in my pocket, this thread isnt waterproof :p
Speaking of one liners, my favourite quote of late is from iron man 3
"is that all you've got, a cheap trick and a cheesy one liner?"
"Honey, that could be the name of my autobiography"
*BOOM*
Heh

Rix I meant to ask you before, how did you find the rear suspension when you swapped over to the moto rim and tyre ?
I haven't touched any settings on mine and it actually feels better than before. I guess it's the heavier weight but it feels less springy than before. Still plush but less rebound type "boingyness". It's especially nice when you belt over speed bumps etc at speed, it feels much more like a motorcyle. Maybe it's actually the stiffer side wall moto tyres ?

In other news I finally kicked my new black and gold commuter to life last night, took it for a spin up the street and back and the motor was slightly louder than I remember and continued to make noise even when I backed off. I thought it was the clutch at first but what ever it was I actually liked it. Not as cool sounding as the zero but it had a scifi kinda quality to it. I then realised it was the rear brake line was ever so slightly rubbing on the fine almost slick edge of the crazy bob tyre causing the noise :lol: Like the old card in the spokes trick but clipping the edge of the tyre actually gave it quite an electric sound. Ah well, you win some, you lose some :p
Also in the losing column it seems my avid code brakes that have only 1 ride on them have shit themselves :x
Click to expand...

Bumber about avids. As far as the motor wheel set up, I noticed the same thing. And dialing in a click or to more to slow the rebound will give you even less springy feeling over bigger woops. I would dial in 2 click slower on your rebound, ride it, and if it feels better, leave It there, if it doesn't go back a click or two faster. [quoteMaybe it's actually the stiffer side wall moto tyres ?][/quote] this plays a part, definitely on sharp or steep stutter bumps. Even though the tire is much harder than the MTB counterpart you ran on it before, the rubber whether inflated to the max, or under inflated, will absorb much more harsh impact energy and not transfer as much of that impact energy to the wheel, axle, swingarm. I think that's why it feels less springy, even if you are running the same PSI in your moto tire as your MTB tire.
 
I edited some together but I think I need more footage to make it worth doing properly. Well, to atleast make it look like it's not completely half arsed.

Here's a matrix style test shot I was playing with using my spewcam(tm) and the gopro recording in 240 fps slow mo. I'll probably have a shorter clip of it in the final edit but it didnt turn out too badly IMO

[youtube]87o4brfSDEI [/youtube]
 
Hyena said:
I edited some together but I think I need more footage to make it worth doing properly. Well, to atleast make it look like it's not completely half arsed.
Click to expand...

LOL no worries - good things are worth waiting for!

Hyena said:
Here's a matrix style test shot I was playing with using my spewcam(tm) and the gopro recording in 240 fps slow mo. I'll probably have a shorter clip of it in the final edit but it didnt turn out too badly IMO
Click to expand...

That looks AWESOME! I reckon a bit of spew cam action in the tram shed would be cool also.

On another note, have you ironed out the stuttering issues with your batshit motor?
 
Can't do inside the tram shed, it's too dark and the camera wouldn't bit up the fast motion in the low light - it'd be all blurry. As it was the stuff I reshot in the shed without a torch on came out quite grainy. In full speed the camera is whizzing around in circles really fast!
Aside from that I don't actually put the helmet on until the end of the vid so can't use those shots prior. Unless I make up another bigger rig inside the shed. But again it probably wouldn't turn out anyway.

I'll have to go check it out again this weekend and see if they've started pulling it down yet.

On another note, the last of the parts I was waiting for to finish my new black and gold commuter have arrived. I took it out to the glowworm welcome back party last week and even unfinished it drew alot of attention. I ended up catching the train in and while waiting on the platform I turned around to see half a dozen people on an opposite train with their phones out taking pictures. I guess the gold rims and trimmings negated the subtlety I was trying to achieve in the frame design... :lol:
 
Hyena said:
I ended up catching the train in and while waiting on the platform I turned around to see half a dozen people on an opposite train with their phones out taking pictures. I guess the gold rims and trimmings negated the subtlety I was trying to achieve in the frame design
Click to expand...
Haha, Love it !. 2013 is turning out to be the year of the bling.

How about a pic or 2 so the rest of us can marvel at this new machine mate ?
 
You should go for a gold chain Jay, this bike should probably have some grills on it too :mrgreen:
 
thewmatusmoloki said:
2013 is turning out to be the year of the bling.
How about a pic or 2 so the rest of us can marvel at this new machine mate ?
Click to expand...
Just noticed your build thread, seems we were both working on blinging gold builds!
I'll take some pics shortly, gotta fit the new grips and also tidy up up the wiring. Space inside the frame body is a little too tight to fit the controller and the wiring so I've got it on the back of the seat tube at the moment. Not sure if it'll stary there. I'll atleast trim all the wiring short but I'm thinking of making a custom controller case that houses all the plugs neatly (or terminate them onto a single DB14 or similar) and also incorporate a DC-DC converter for my lighting. The 6 fet controller is tiny so I could probably mount it in a 12 fet case along with the DC-DC converter for a single neat unit. I'm also thinking of mounting cree led stars for the tail light directly to the controller case so A: it uses it as a heat sink and a mount for the lights and B: kills 2 birds with one stone, disguising the controller as a mammoth tail light.

Sam, a gold chain is on the cards. I just didnt want to go too over the top with the gold accessories and make it look like a carnival ride. When I showed my wife yesterday she offered the praise, "nice wheels, ya big wog" :lol:

Architectonic, gopro mounts depend on what you want to do with it - just record your rides or make cool and creative vids.
At the least grab yourself the handlebar hero - it'll mount to both your bars for forward facing shots and also your seat post for rear facing shots if you desire.
If you have a full face helmet the curved mount that comes with it will suit that. I got a chest mount recently which isnt bad either. There's a mountain of non-genuine parts around now which are much cheaper than the genuine gopro stuff, which is good for people like me who break this stuff all the time.
Oh, the tripod mount is useful too if you want to put it tripods or similar. Not the full sized ones obviously but those little gorilla/octopus flexible ones are quite useful. I use one of those alot to hang mine from trees or signs or what ever. Mine is a DIY modded one (of course :p ) but you could replicate similar with just the gopro tripod mount and a flexi-tripod out of the box.
 
Hey, JAy, is there a reason why you make your calostat cut @110 or 120°c ? (I can't find it in older posts...) the datasheets give Hall sensors range up to 150°C but some labels are only factory tested @85°C, SS41 label F is factory tested @150°C...riding limited @110°C is a little frustrating compairing to the way I used to ride before I cooked my motor...as you said :D : the guy said, don't bring me one again I won't do it, first and last time ! , too "tiny fingers" work =), he rewind it because he was curious and said if it work he's a real PRO :D :D
 
dan974 said:
Hey, JAy, is there a reason why you make your calostat cut @110 or 120°c ? (I can't find it in older posts...) the datasheets give Hall sensors range up to 150°C but some labels are only factory tested @85°C, SS41 label F is factory tested @150°C...riding limited @110°C is a little frustrating compairing to the way I used to ride before I cooked my motor...as you said :D : the guy said, don't bring me one again I won't do it, first and last time ! , too "tiny fingers" work =), he rewind it because he was curious and said if it work he's a real PRO :D :D
Click to expand...

I personally have my CA set to start thermal rollback at 90C and have it shut down at 140C. With these setting Im getting a stabalized temp around 120-130C with the power being reduced as I go up in temp. My bike normally does 4500w unrestricted but with the thermal roll back around 125C it does about 2000 which puts it in the area of being able to run this wattage all day. I have a magic pie by the way.
 
Yeah Dan I knew that guy would never want to see you again after rewinding the motor :lol:
I typically run a 120oC thermostat to leave a safety margin. If you get a motor baking hot and then cut power the temp will continue to climb. Sure, they're probably right up to 150 odd but I'd rather wait a few minutes for an overly cautious thermostat to kick back in than be replacing a cooked motor. Plus it's good insurance for noobs who may have no mechanical sympathy and would otherwise thrash a motor up hills until plasma melts through the side covers :p
I also put the thermostat on the stator not directly on the windings so there's a difference in temp from the windings. The windings could get transiently really hot under high load but once the stator gets heatsoaked over 120 it's going to struggle to shed that heat.
I've never had a hall fail from over temperature though I have melted the solder off the hall (and phase) wires a few times.

This is a solution that works on any motor under any situation in the absence of any other hardware. If you have CA V3 like icecube describes then the thermal rollback is a nicer more progressive way to do it.
 
Hyena said:
...I also put the thermostat on the stator not directly on the windings so there's a difference in temp from the windings. The windings could get transiently really hot under high load but once the stator gets heatsoaked over 120 it's going to struggle to shed that heat.
Click to expand...
I found that point beetween 100° and 110°C, but it seems (largely vented) that in like 3 min stops, the windings get down to 85°C while keeping it turn rear wheel up does'nt accelerate the freezing..., but driving it upper than 30km/h allow it to freeze while riding but the fastest is the stop...I don't know about stator, (but I put the CA temp sensor and the controller sensor behind the loops on the hall's side beetween stator and windings...it seems that when 100/110 are reach for a long time, the rotor become saturated too and it seems to me than it's the part who take the longer time to shed,

I've never had a hall fail from over temperature though I have melted the solder off the hall (and phase) wires a few times.
Click to expand...
the basic fusion point is (185 °C) with some lead+tin(pewter) but I discover that in france it is supposed to be forbiden due to environnement stuffs, so there is the ones silver+pewter (225 °C) so I guess using the second one could resolve the melted solder...and that explain why with some it takes a longer time to melt...

If you have CA V3 like icecube describes then the thermal rollback is a nicer more progressive way to do it.
Click to expand...
yes I just using for checking calibration beetween control temp sensor and the CA because I play with the kelly software before playing with the CA...actually I read on the CA and the Kelly cut @ preset sofware temp using a KTY 81/210, I even install an ebay with Big digits ...but I think a buzzer would be so much nicer just a few degrees before it cut or rollback...just to advise...I'm know thinking of a 5000 or CROW to access the unheating world =) I don't know how high I get it but for water to vaporize on the rotor it should have reach 150+...
 
Hyena said:
Yeah Dan I knew that guy would never want to see you again after rewinding the motor :lol:
I typically run a 120oC thermostat to leave a safety margin. If you get a motor baking hot and then cut power the temp will continue to climb. Sure, they're probably right up to 150 odd but I'd rather wait a few minutes for an overly cautious thermostat to kick back in than be replacing a cooked motor. Plus it's good insurance for noobs who may have no mechanical sympathy and would otherwise thrash a motor up hills until plasma melts through the side covers :p
I also put the thermostat on the stator not directly on the windings so there's a difference in temp from the windings. The windings could get transiently really hot under high load but once the stator gets heatsoaked over 120 it's going to struggle to shed that heat.
I've never had a hall fail from over temperature though I have melted the solder off the hall (and phase) wires a few times.

This is a solution that works on any motor under any situation in the absence of any other hardware. If you have CA V3 like icecube describes then the thermal rollback is a nicer more progressive way to do it.
Click to expand...

That heat soak phenomenon comes from probes being placed in the wrong place to far from the heat source. Mines is directly in the winding so there is literally no lag. When I stop or remove power the temps dont climb they start dropping but then again mines is vented. I believe 120 is the super safe cut off. I barely smell the motor at this temp but I also agree with Jay with the max temp probably being closer to 150. I havent seen past 130 with the v3. The limiting kicks in and reduces the watts so instead of me dumping 4500w into the motor and having 1/3 of that going to heat (1500w) it reduces it to 2000w which then it only had (666)w going to heat (estimated figures). You can still move at a pretty good clip but the air cooling actually can stabilize stator temps because the amount its able to cool can counteract the amount of heat thats created.

Not to mention that 2000w is a much more respectable continuous figure that 4500w =P. Im not scientific but 4500 without the CA v3 is certain death but with the Ca v3 with thermal rollback it dials you power down to what the motor can actually take and when you get some damn sense and let it drop back down to 80-90C it will give you full power ... I like that its on a sliding scale also .. so you ur not dead in the water... you can still do some thing... if you manage to max it out and not pay attention to the display then you deserve to be scooting at 100w but you had plenty of warning .... you can feel it overriding your throttle which shouldd give you notice that you need to back off...
 
icecube57 said:
... you had plenty of warning .... you can feel it overriding your throttle which shouldd give you notice that you need to back off...
Click to expand...
I guess it should be ok instead of a buzzer, I think it's time to plug the CAV3 =), how's rated the HS40 continous power/amp ? 1500W/2000W ? 40A ? for the temp to stabilize under 100°C ?
reading Jay I think his strategy is driving it fast for it to cool so I'd like to know how much he think the "cruising average" power is, even if he bring it @ 9000KW :D
 
You'd have to be riding hard to overheat a H40 on the street - I did manage it once but I was late for work and riding full throttle all the way and had just climbed a steep hill and stopped at the lights. That said I had a very conservative 110c themostat then so it would have still been fine.
I think an average cruising power of ~2000w is reasonable to keep them happy with short bursts much more than that being fine. Obviously it depends how much over that you run as to how quickly they'll then heat up. As icecube said the keep to keeping temp in check is to keep the airflow happening. The worst thing you can do is thrash it like it owes you money and then step off.
Stealth now use these motors on the fighter rated at 3kw so that gives you an idea of their power handling. No doubt you could still cook one if you tried to ride it up the side of a volcano and pulled 3kw continuously for 10 minutes but the chances of that happening are unlikely.

In other news I had my first failure but also a win on my black and gold commuter bike yesterday.
After my injuries of late + being a bit lazy over winter I haven't been doing any exercise and with the weather warming up I went to put on a pair of my old shorts on the weekend and found the buttons seem to have moved, making them difficult to do up :p I'm not what you'd call fat but I could do with dropping 3-5kg of flab. So I've decided there'll be no more lazy casual pedalling home after work each day, this is my 5 days per week exercise class.
Starting yesterday I pedalled meaningfully all the way with only very low speed assist (cruise control set to ~24km/hr) and only flicked into high power mode when I had to quickly dispense with busy high traffic areas. I came to a hill and stood up on the pedals to help out the little e-hamsters inside my motor and that's when things went wonky. I stopped to find my pedal half hanging out and all loose. I tried to tighen it up by hand but no dice. So I wiggled it free and found the end 3 threads had stripped and were clogged with the allow from the crank arm. Bugger.
Fortunately there was a mechanic still open just up the road so powered in there and borrowed a spanner to do it up. While talking to him he looked at my bike and said "I haven't ridden a bike since I was a kid, but I remember I used to have a diamondback" (it says diamondback on my saddle, one of the few parts of the original doner bike) He commented that he liked the gold rims, gave me some advice on how to not strip nuts in future (my specialty it seems unfortunately :roll: ), I thanked him for letting me borrow his spanner then went on my way. He didn't even notice the motor or wider tank frame section. Win!

So there you go Sambo, I made up for my week of ghost pedalling a chainless fighter by delivering so much sheer torque to the pedals that I tore the threads from the crank arms :p
I guess I'll probably have to order a gold replacement crankset now...
Pity you can't get just a gold chainwheel. I'd rather have just it gold and the cranks arms black.
 
Ha - those well rested legs must have dished out the Newton Meters!

None of the gold chainrings here would do? Seems to be quite a few...
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/chainrings?f=2258
 
Dang Jay, that just plain super awesome when the bike shop dude doesn't even notice your commuter bike is an Ebike. Goal achieved. To get much more ghost than that, you would have to go Keplers route with his build. Today, I did my 3rd service on the VBoxx. This time, I squirted in 120cc of grease in each hole, about 5 times more than recommended by Sun Tour. Its is super smooth now. Cant even feel the clutches in the odd gears that normally have drag. I am telling you this thing is happy full of Super lube synthetic grease. Anyway what going on with the Bat Shit Crazy Fast Fighter?
 
pendragon8000 said:
Good luck with the fitness mate. Intervals of sprint burn more fat than constant effort but traffic will probly do that anyway.
Click to expand...
Cheers mate,
The weight loss thing isn't really dire, I've put on around 6kg over the last 15 years, half of that being in the last 3 years. I blamed the steroids for a while when I was crook but the truth is I do bugger all exercise these days and eat a bit of junk (which I'd rather not change :p )
I can't do too much sprint / higher intensity stuff either way courtesy of the lasting side effects from my radio and chemotherapy. My eosophagus got pretty badly radiated (which I knew about up front but when the alternative is a pine box who gives a shit) so I get bad reflux style burning now with anything more than moderate exercise. I can pedal away comfortably on the flat but if I get to a hill and drop down gears and put in the extra effort my chest is on fire by the time I get to the top. My heart isn't so good either at higher levels - I get chest pains, dizzy and then tend to fall over (I collapsed last summer when pushing the mower up my sloping front lawn) so not the best when you're riding a bike. :lol:
So yeah, fitness wise I've not got much scope do much anyway, but again, every time I go to complain I'm grateful I can get about, and more specifically that I'm not feeding the worms up at the local cemetary!

No biggy really if I didnt happen across the mechanic. I have plenty of juice to make it home if needs be. If I don't pedal at all and ride flat out I use at most 6ah (10ah battery, I dont bank on more than 9). Riding in to work this morning with casual pedalling I use just shy of 4ah. Riding home yesterday I used just 2.5ah/180whr which works out 11.3 whr/km. I'm going to try and get it down to 10 whr/km neat over the next few days.


Samd said:
Ha - those well rested legs must have dished out the Newton Meters!
Click to expand...
As I tell the befuddled motorbike riders as they pull up along side me and question WTF is powering the bike, I tell them "I am strong, like ox" :p
Speaking of which I applied for my learners bike license yesterday. There's quite a few hoops to jump through these days - there's a 2 day pre-learner course, then you come back and do an exam, then 3-12 months later you do your P license test exam / ride which is 8 hrs. Damn. That's a month away yet but another step closer to operation e-madass :)

None of the gold chainrings here would do? Seems to be quite a few...
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/au/en/chainrings?f=2258
Click to expand...
I should have clarified, there ARE options but most are a bit pricey. haha.
I only want a single speed and want a decent sized chainring (currently Ive only got a 36t, I should be able to fit a 46t) and most of the single rings on CRC and elsewhere are only a low tooth count.

Rix, I know nothing about vboxxes but is there any danger in overfilling them with grease ? I guess it's not like an high powered engine or anything where it can build up too much pressure. I guess worst case it just seeps out or maybe pushes out a seal.

The batshit fighter sits largely unused in the back corner of my garage. If the commuter is my steady girlfriend, the fighter is my secret mistress on the side who likes it rough. Still battered and bruised from our last big fight she's always peering from the shadows in her big high heel boots, a bulging chest full of lithium and ready to rock out :mrgreen:
 
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