Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

[Rodney64]

I haven't purchased brakes yet either. How are they connected up and I have t used cruise before.

 

[Hyena]

Good feedback about the MT2s Rick. I should post over in the stealth thread for what others have found vs the MT4.
I know they have to be decent if they're standard on the bomber considering they used to use 6 pot gatorbrakes.
I guess I'm subscribing to the 'bigger / more pistons is better' theory but I know you can pay a fortune for little twin piston brakes (like $400 per end) that look essentially the same as cheaper ones that can be had for around $60 per end. You'd think for a relatively simple device of the same size they'd perform fairly similarly but apparently that's not the case! (brand snobbery aside).
I like my 9" rotors and being lighter than you they're probably not working as hard but even so I've had trouble with them warping after a few hard braking incidents. If they made a larger floating rotor I reckon they'd be better in this sense. Maybe that's a job for the hyena industries R&D dept - hmmm, 10" floating rotors 8)

I haven't purchased brakes yet either. How are they connected up and I have t used cruise before.

I imagine they're just a simple on off pressure switch (though if the had a linear output that'd be awesome for controllers that support proportional regen) that you connect up to your controllers ebrake line. If you have regen enabled this activates regen braking and automatically cuts the throttle and disables cruise control. If no regen is enabled it just cuts the throttle and disables the cruise. I dont personally see a role for cruise control on a dedicated offroader but it is good on a commuter.

 

[morati]

10" floating rotors sounds good to me. I'd buy them now!

 

[Rix]

I guess I'm subscribing to the 'bigger / more pistons is better' theory

I know some will disagree, but as you said, bigger rotors and more pistons are better for stopping. One thing I liked about the gators, they felt like motorcycle brakes. I mean they modulated easy because then needed a little more lever force to lock up. The MT2 by comparison are sensitive as hell. I addapted to only using my pointer finger on the levers because they very sensitive, until they fade. I am really thinking my 9" rotor on the front will solve this problem.

@Morati

10" floating rotors sounds good to me. I'd buy them now!

Damn that would be overkill . There is a company that sells 255mm rotors, I cant remember who, but thats what you would like.

 

[pendragon8000]

I guess I'm subscribing to the 'bigger / more pistons is better' theory

I know some will disagree, but as you said, bigger rotors and more pistons are better for stopping. One thing I liked about the gators, they felt like motorcycle brakes. I mean they modulated easy because then needed a little more lever force to lock up. The MT2 by comparison are sensitive as hell. I addapted to only using my pointer finger on the levers because they very sensitive, until they fade. I am really thinking my 9" rotor on the front will solve this problem.

@Morati

10" floating rotors sounds good to me. I'd buy them now!

Damn that would be overkill . There is a company that sells 255mm rotors, I cant remember who, but thats what you would like.

What about dual front. One of the cromotor boys had one. Its super rare but surely better and less rare than some custom disc bizo

 

[Rix]

Definitely an option Ken. I think it was Greyborg USA that was selling a DNM front fork with dual disk front hub for 500-600 bucks. Smoking deal if the fork turns out to be good. I patiently await Jay's findings on the DNM shod Raptor.

 

[Hyena]

Check out this for retro cool, a Sinclair C5 from 1985!
Electric bike... err.. car... errr... thing...



The owner is a friend of mine who bought it recently in less than perfect running condition.
I'm trying to convince him to turn up the power but he wants to keep it all standard for now.
At the very least we've trimmed the weight right down, replacing the big heavy car battery with a tiny light lipo unit.

View attachment 1

It's only 3S, I recommend 4S but he was worried about wrecking the existing electronics and wanted the knight rider style LED 'dash' to still work.
I took it for a spin, it goes OK for something you can technically and legally ride to work in the bike lane as a 250w pedal assist recumbent bicycle. I think you'd be promptly run over in city traffic these days but from marketing material at the time it seems that was Sir Clive Sinclair's vision!

I'm tempted to hunt one down myself (though they're pretty few and far between these days) but really, what would I do with it ? Well, you all know what I'd do with it but where would I actually use it ? There's certainly a few design elements I'd address if I do happen across one to Hyena-ise.
I did nearly roll it putting it through it's paces :lol:
Good thing I was dressed appropriately for the white knuckle ride

 

[Samd]

Nice to see the raptor build complete fella. What's the head tube angle - is it me or does it seem a bit slacker than a stealth?

SD

 

[Hyena]

The raptor is still not quite finished yet. Needs the chain put on and at least 1 brake before I can test ride. I've started work on the battery but as expected it's a very time consuming process to do properly/neatly. Hopefully I'll put in some more late night hours through the week and have it ready to run this weekend. I blame the kids for holding me up, in further parallels between myself and GCinDC I've been tied up building them a treehouse the last few weekends. So many projects, so little time.

Re: the head angle, it's probably a combination of me using a shorter (222mm) shock and the 19" moto tyre on the back. BB height is only just over 12" so could be a little low for really chucking around on the narrow rocky single track but we'll see. I'm going to experiment with different shocks and see what I come up with.

 

[lawsie]

Hi Jay
My email account has been down over the last week for some unknown reason.

Did you end up hearing anything from your battery supplier regarding the battery for my 165 raptor?

Your raptor is coming along nicely. It looks like it was meant to have the moto rim fitted

Cheers

 

[Samd]

Needs the chain put on and at least 1 brake before I can test ride.

You've started pedalling?
I need to go lie down

 

[Rix]

Needs the chain put on and at least 1 brake before I can test ride.

You've started pedalling?
I need to go lie down

Yah Sam, I was thinking the same thing. When Jay first tried the cro clone on the fighter, no rear brakes and no chain. I figured Jay was trying to keep the weight down as much as possible :lol: :lol:

 

[Hyena]

You've started pedalling?
I need to go lie down

Die in a fire, I pedal my ring off on my commuter bike
Granted the pedals on such an offroad beast are somewhat, shall we say, ornamental... :lol:
With this motor they are anyway, but I forsee I may end up swapping a TC80 or maybe even H40 back onto it and run an 8 speed freewheel on the back. For long exploratory rides I think it'll be quite bicyclish.
Rix, you know the lack of rear brakes and chain was just just extreme ebike weight reduction mods

Back to the talk of brakes:
I just heard back from Magura that they're about to start production on a run of the MT5s. I'm going to order a batch but they will take around a month before they're ready to ship out. A few people have PMd me keen to get a set of these, if you're still happy to proceed given the ~1 month lead time let me know and I'll grab a deposit and put your name on the list.

 

[Drunkskunk]

That Sinclair needs an Angi.

How are those Magura at heat dissipation? Think you could ride hard enough to boil them if you tried?

 

[Hyena]

haha an Agni would see you dead in short order. It has an huge turning circle though so being able to flick the tail around under power for increased manoeuvrability would be handy

I haven't tested the Maguras myself yet and it looks like a month before I'll get my hands on a set but I imagine they'd be at least comparable to other similar 4 pot offerings.

It is worth noting that the MT7s come with separate pads for better heat dissipation where the MT5s are joined. I would have thought that little gap would be trivial but it must make a difference. Nearly double the price difference ? I think not!
Magura did say that they recommend using their more solid storm rotors with these for better head dissipation rather than the SL which is less 'solid' (ie less overall metal and more holes) They also "utilize technology and design that came from development of our Motard motorcycle brakes"

If you believe this supplied graph they look like an impressive boost over the MT2s (standard on the stealth bikes now and Rix has a good opinion of them) While the deceleration axis doesn't have a scale the MT2 is 2.5 units and the MT5 4.5 units suggesting they pull up 80% quicker. This is almost too good to be true for the price point but either way they sound like they'll be decent performers.

 

[Architectonic]

LOL, the above graph is pure marketing. That said, I'm sure they're good when properly set up!

 

[Samd]

Those looks like good pads, the brass is a giveaway that it's not cheap NAO crap. The hand grinding shows a bit of a leading edge shape on one pad I think.

 

[Kepler]

Cant complain about my MT2's. Great bang buck. I personally have never had any fade issues with them and the modulation is great. Have found they chew through pads though. Jay, you have ridden MT2's when you rode my Fighter last.

Lately I have been fitting Shimano XT M785 to my builds. Also good value for money with great stopping power and finned brake pads for fade resistance.

 

[Hyena]

Ah, I didnt take that much notice of your brakes Kepler! I remember the bomber brakes, with the extra weight and high speed and acceleration capabilities you notice if you're then struggling to stop but on your the fighter I was never pushing it hard enough to notice. I think they're perfectly matched for the fighters weight and power. Maybe a little at the limit as Rix pointed out if you're doing a long downhill with a fair bit of weight on board.

Yeah the XTs have a good wrap. I'm using SLX on raptor for now and will upgrade to the MT5s when they arrive. I can't wait another month to get this going!
I think the XTs are largely just a lighter version of the SLX for the weight weenies who want to pay the premium. They're use the same finned pads and are cheaper again at around $90/end if you get them on sale which makes them great bang for buck.

 

[Rix]

Cant complain about my MT2's. Great bang buck. I personally have never had any fade issues with them and the modulation is great. Have found they chew through pads though. Jay, you have ridden MT2's when you rode my Fighter last.

Lately I have been fitting Shimano XT M785 to my builds. Also good value for money with great stopping power and finned brake pads for fade resistance.

Kepler, I don't think you have the physical dimension required to experience brake fade with the MT2, I did with over 1300 feet descent in a matter of about 1.5 miles. And even then the front just started to fade on me. I still had brake, just had to use the lever a little harder. My rotor is discolored as result of the heat, so I swapped out front and rear rotors. I will take a pic so you can see what I am talking about. But the MT2 are a great brake overall, even though the MT5 will no doubt prove better, I will eventually put one of the 9" (224mm) rotors on the front and I am betting that solve the problem completely.

Rick

 

[Hyena]

So as per this thread here I just posted: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=62067
I'm off the the hunter EV festival in a few weeks. Time to get cracking on finishing the raptor build and getting it race ready!
I'll be in the 1500 motorcycle category which I don't expect to be terribly competitive in but it'll be good fun regardless.
It's 10 laps of a gokart track with only 1500whrs of battery. For a proper high powered motorcycle this isn't a great deal but for something more bicycle orientated it's pretty decent. That works out at 150whrs per lap and at a total guess of 2 minutes per lap that's 4500w continuous I can use. That should be spot on considering I'll burst higher power than that but under brakes I'll be using none at all.

This should make for some good photo and videos so stay tuned. And anyone in the region come say g'day!
First order of business, pulling off those big knobbies!
I dont actually have any moto slicks and I'm not sure I want to run out and buy any just for 10 minutes of race time. My big cro-clone is the sensible choice but I still have a TC80 laced to a 24" bicycle rim and one last 24" hookworm here I've been saving for a rainy day so I could fit that up on the rear and see how it goes. I suspect I could well smoke it by pushing it to the limit in a race setting like this. Oh well, only one way to find out

 

[Rix]

The TC 80 on bike rim for road race will be fine. Have your GP rolling when you do. Can't wait to see it.

Rick

 

[Hyena]

The TC 80 on bike rim for road race will be fine

I dunno, I reckon it'll be pushing it. We're talking 10+ minutes of continuous flat out acceleration at 5-10kw, heavy regen then back on the juice again. It's almost the perfect way to smoke a motor (at least I'll have continuous airflow though) Either way I'll need to bust out the drill. Ideally I'd give regen the flick to save heating up the motor but in the race situation I'll need to pull up hard at the end of the main straight from ~80km/hr which could be tough on bicycle brakes over and over. I guess it depends on traffic and how much of the track I have to use. I suspect I'll have to sacrifice perfect race lines and possibly run wide or brake too early if I start getting fade.

I just remembed I also have that crystalyte 5403 laced to a 3" wide cruiser wheel with a nirve fatass tyre. I wonder how that'd hold up leaning it into corners ? The tread seems to run out fairly abruptly so stretching out a hookworm might be a better option for more sidewall tread

Have your GP rolling when you do.

Bitch please :lol:
I'll actually need to borrow another so I have one forward and rear facing. Or I'll just pinch the dashcam from my car and mount it on the back. It records in astoundingly good 1080p quality for a $50 camera.

 

[Rix]

The TC 80 on bike rim for road race will be fine

I dunno, I reckon it'll be pushing it. We're talking 10+ minutes of continuous flat out acceleration at 5-10kw, heavy regen then back on the juice again. It's almost the perfect way to smoke a motor (at least I'll have continuous airflow though) Either way I'll need to bust out the drill. Ideally I'd give regen the flick to save heating up the motor but in the race situation I'll need to pull up hard at the end of the main straight from ~80km/hr which could be tough on bicycle brakes over and over. I guess it depends on traffic and how much of the track I have to use. I suspect I'll have to sacrifice perfect race lines and possibly run wide or brake too early if I start getting fade.

I just remembed I also have that crystalyte 5403 laced to a 3" wide cruiser wheel with a nirve fatass tyre. I wonder how that'd hold up leaning it into corners ? The tread seems to run out fairly abruptly so stretching out a hookworm might be a better option for more sidewall tread

Have your GP rolling when you do.

Bitch please :lol:
I'll actually need to borrow another so I have one forward and rear facing. Or I'll just pinch the dashcam from my car and mount it on the back. It records in astoundingly good 1080p quality for a $50 camera.

What I meant was the TC80 on road race, I was referring more to the tires you will be running with it. Should have clarified. :? I have never pinch flatted any wheel on smooth pavement. Soo, did you vent the TC80? I have a 5403 lace to a 17 I could have sent you for the race, could have put a Gazzele M62 3.00-17 on it, you would be happy to the end . I don't think you will get brake fade, yah they will heat up on you braking hard, but the air flow blowing by them will help. Yah, my go pro comment, just stating the obvious, I guess it would be like Albert Einstein telling Steven Hawking "Damn you're smart".

 

[Sigmacom]

Phil and I will be there to take plenty of video of you smoking your motor

Nah you'll be fine - which day is the race on?