Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

Yeah Rix the tyre will be fine on the track as long as it's pumped up nice and hard so the sidewalls down squirm around.
Thanks for the offer to loan me some rubber. I think we learned our lesson on trying to ship tyres from the US last time though!
If I had of gotten my act together sooner I could have organised a 50mm version of my batshit motor to race and lace it to a 16" wheel. That would have been ideal but I couldnt get it here in time now. It'll get the raptor finished off this weekend hopefully and then test it with the new motor (with knobbies for now) and the TC80 and see how they stack up. The bigger motor may not be fast enough anyway for track racing.

Cool Mark. I'll need a pit crew :p
The race is on Sunday. Saturday is qualifiying and more of the EV show with displays and what not but apparently it'll all still be there on Sunday.
 
Jay I have a 24" Schwalbe Big Apple which you are welcome to use. It's only done about 5 laps of the kart track from last year. Pretty flexy sidewalls but I think you can run them up to 80psi.
 
Hyena said:
Funny you should mentioned the madass style headlights, I'm impatient awaiting the delivery of one of these. More to follow if they're good.



They're "only" 30w but given how bright my 18w ones 2 or probably even just 1 of these should be enough to sear the retinas out of any animals (human or otherwise) I encounter at night.
I nearly pulled the trigger on one of those fancy angel eye HID projectors but figured the bouncing around would be as good for the life of the HID globes. I might still buy the 20,000 volt ballast though and wire it to the frame as a security system :twisted:

Hey, russians use that (Andreym) with great success:
20140430_222918_HDR.jpg


It is a bit to narrow for the jungle/city rides he says:
http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=448.msg444591#msg444591
 
Fantastic you're getting involved in the Hunter Valley Thang Jay... been wanting to go for the past couple of years... bit far for me right now... mebbe next year :D
Joe
 
Grinhill said:
Jay I have a 24" Schwalbe Big Apple which you are welcome to use. It's only done about 5 laps of the kart track from last year. Pretty flexy sidewalls but I think you can run them up to 80psi.
Thanks mate, I'll see how I go with what I have here and if I dont have any luck I might chuck them on.

Alex, that's a pretty hardcore focus spot! More so than I was expecting. I ordered mine a month ago and it still hasn't arrived but when it finally does I might wire it up as a high beam, aimed higher to shoot into the distance. In the mean time I've fitted one of the 18w 4 led units the same as what I used on my fighter that gives a nice broad spread.

I made a custom mount yesterday from an old meanwell case and kept the slotted holes as a design feature of the bracket :p
It bolts to the bottom 2 stem bolts and hangs the light low around mid steerer tube level and also extends up higher level with cross brace part of my bars and that's where the CA will mount. This sits the CA slightly forward of the bars which I much prefer the look of and it looks more motorcyclish. And, most importantly it sits centrally! This is something I always meant to do with my fighter but never got around to it. This time around I'm addressing all the little things I learned along the way last time :)
Pics when the paint dries

Joe, this is my first time and the last few years I've been meaning to go as well. I'm sure it'll be good fun and no doubt I'll be back next year. I'd be great if we could get a bit more of an ES contingent up there. I will also have my madass electric by then so will no doubt enter that instead in the moto category.
 
Oh yeah I'll have to get an edit up the first part.
I have to admit I've neglected to film the more recent stuff I've been doing but once the basics of the frame are assembled the rest is just standard bicycle stuff - how to fit brakes, chains etc.

I've been slack on the build and I really need to get cracking. It's winter here and while it's not as cold as a lot of places in winter temps in the low single digits late at night (which is the only time I have to work on it currently) is incentive enough to put it off.
I really must get it sorted this weekend though so it's ready to race the following weekend.

I got a motorcycle disc brake adaptor yesterday (made by Animalector, then passed on to Millzy and now me!) but it's pretty chunky and heavy. It only has a 6" pit bike disc on it currently and I plan to fit a 9" but the steel centre adaptor + disc weight alone is a heap and I'm worried about the potential torque issues that extra braking force will have on the 6 little rotor bolts and the light weight allow hub. It's a good quality 20mm bolt through nukeproof unit, but still it's a bicycle part with a dirty big motorcycle rotor hanging off it and I dont want to find out the hard way how much torque the rotor bolts and bicycle hub can take!
I'm thinking a better option might be to see if I can get the rotor machined down a little thinner (it's around 5mm and bicycle stuff is around 2mm) and try and keep the bicycle calipers. The pads will then become the weak link but atleast i wont warp the rotor. And as far as heat dissipation goes if I just machine down the braking surface and keep the rest of the rotor thicker that should sink a fair bit of heat away. Again though it's all running pretty short on time to sort out and it may be that I just have to go with the bicycle brakes and hope for the best.

I'm also still toying with the idea of running a dual oil and air cooled hub but as above, time is tight.
 
just my thoughts on the motor cycle disc on the DH MTB hub.. front hubs dont tend to break. i know they dont have stress applyed in the torque rotation as much as you will be doing but usually things like the frame holding the steer tube and BB will break b4 a hub, especially a good brand DH MTB one. i tink the other thing is the disc itself may contribute structural integrity to the hub/disc structure by being thicker and and not letting the disc warp or the bolts bend, also less heat. I think the pros and cons should out weigh each other in regard to structural integrity and we all know motor bike brakes shit on MTB ones so if it makes you fear less about an OTB incodent on race day, thats my opinion. good luck. now get out in the lab in a beany and ugg boots and build like a boss!
 
Heh you spotted the uggies in my previous unboxing vid huh ? :lol:
I may not have time to fit up the moto brakes now, I've got a heap of stuff on tomorrow with the family so unless I can get out mid week it and grab something from the local dirt bike place it doesnt leave me much time to be fabbing up brackets and what not.

I wasted a good hour trying to get the stupid motorcycle alarm working but in the end gave up and moved onto the important stuff. 1:30 am now and the controller is programmed. I remember when I used to be out drinking at this time of night :p
Tomorrow I just need to extend the phase wires back inside the frame, throw in the battery and controller and it's test ride time. I'm still waiting on a shunt to be able to connect up the CA so for now I'll have to rely on the 'bum dyno' but I'm looking forward to testing it.
The spin up test showed it to be possibly a little faster than my previous infineon set up. Even without the speed boost / field weakening enabled it was doing 850 rpm which equates to just over 100km/hr.

sabvoton.jpg
 
Quick vid of the sabvoton doing it's automatic hall angle calibration. Pretty cool feature and I could get used to not having to figure out hall and phase combos with different motors and controllers :)
That said the crystalyte hall and phase wires colour for colour did seem to work straight out of the box.

[youtube]odcar_GPXtA[/youtube]
 
eek! Unprotected alligator clips. Too scary for me. Probably because I have horrible luck and the spinning wheel would have made them contact if it was me. :roll:
 
Cool vid. Backwards rotation?

Hey I've been thinking more about fuses after all the safety bizo in my cert ii electrotechnology course.
HRC silicon filled ones are the way to go for significant DC setups. Like this.
http://au.element14.com/cooper-bussmann/100let/fuse-hrc-high-speed-100a/dp/1202322
Have you considered adding fuses to your builds or kits?
 
Fuses slow burn and start fires. Use a proper circuit breaker with tunnels to quench the arc, or a BMS.
 
Allex said:
Is that SineWave...damn the motor sounded loud compared to Adapttos, or you still tuning in?
Yeah sinewave, and I thought the same about the noise. It's not as loud as it sounds in the vid, I was only a foot away from it so the noise was amplified in the vid but there is a little more motor noise than I was expecting. I've had this one for a while, it's one of the earlier versions that isn't quite as silent as the later models. It's quieter than an infineon though.

Mammalian04 said:
eek! Unprotected alligator clips. Too scary for me. Probably because I have horrible luck and the spinning wheel would have made them contact if it was me. :roll:
She'll be right mate! :lol:
The phase wires are pretty stiff and were well spread apart, you'd have to be unluckly for them to move that much to short. That said of course it was only a very temporary setup.

pendragon8000 said:
Cool vid. Backwards rotation?
Lol yeah, I didnt realise at first because I was busy looking at the settings and videoing. After that shot it was just a matter of ticking a box in the settings and reversing the direction.
The software on these is so much nicer than the basic stuff we get with the infineons. And the ability to see everything in real time is nice too. They have an android app that lets you see it from your phone which I'm going to get too. It's a big buggy apparently and crashes which is a shame otherwise you could pretty much use it as a CA / dash replacement as it provides heaps of useful info about temp, voltage, current, etc all in real time.

Re: fuses, I actually have a circuit breaker I'll be using. But yeah, as Sam said the BMS usually takes care of that and I'm not supplying anything without a BMS now.
 
Hyena said:
Mammalian04 said:
eek! Unprotected alligator clips. Too scary for me. Probably because I have horrible luck and the spinning wheel would have made them contact if it was me. :roll:
She'll be right mate! :lol:
The phase wires are pretty stiff and were well spread apart, you'd have to be unluckly for them to move that much to short. That said of course it was only a very temporary setup.

Ok. Murphy's law follows me like a cloud so I'm just looking out. :)

It's lookin' good there! I just got one of my frames so any tips are appreciated! I won't be assembling until next weekend though.
 
Very nice Jay, she will scream for you. I think when the time comes, I going to get a Sabvoton that you have set up and programed for your HEB Croclone. To sweet of a combo to go any other route with.
 
Samd said:
Fuses slow burn and start fires. Use a proper circuit breaker with tunnels to quench the arc, or a BMS.
Yeah the silicon filled ones "high rupture capacity" seal off the inside and stop the arc.

But yeah a circuit breaker rated for 100v DC 100A would be ideal.

Its just all the pics I've seen recently of ppl being blinded by vaporized metal and burns etc. Its serious stuff.
 
This is what I have learnt to use now.
Regular apartment breaker C63A, it angages at about 140 DC Amps for me and you can use whatever battery voltage
And I don't need any precharges anymore.
http://www.abb.com/product/seitp329/49a79353b0194401c12572ab00257544.aspx?tabKey=2&gid=ABB2CDS251001R0634&cid=9AAC100489
 

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pendragon8000 said:
a circuit breaker rated for 100v DC 100A would be ideal.
Not when I'm drawing 170 battery amps :twisted:
I bought one of these - rated at 200A @ 12v - not sure how that extrapolates out to 80v but we'll see . They also make a 300A one so if this trips I'll up it.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201040108474?var=500236070205&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Wow Alex, 63A @ 240v mains is an awful lot of power! Like, 15kw. Who the hell can draw that much power from the mains? Good to know though.

OK so between last night and now I have the bike running! I continue to underestimate how long things take to get done, it took me around 4hrs today and the charger and key etc still isnt wired up. But it's close.

A few pics:
Because I'm running an internal controller and not the intended external spot the wiring exit on the underside of the bike (on the front-bottom side of the part of the frame that encloses the bottom bracket) seemed like a l long way of doing things with teh phase wires looping around under he bottom bracket and back out. So I drilled a hole under the shock and have a neat wiring exit there for the motor leads which are easily disconnected for flats/wheel swaps but also short and pretty neat. Battery and phase wires are 8ga. There's also 12v DC out to the back of the bike for rear lights.

wiring exit.jpg

Headlight and CA bracket I made from a piece of old meanwell case :) A bit black spraypaint on the light bezel and bracket and she looks pretty good IMO

front.jpg

How I've mounted the CA this time. I much prefer this style of mounting, it's more motorcycle-ish, easy to read and keeps the bars uncluttered (I was never that happy with it mounted on the thinner brace part of the bars and then sitting up high like a bird on a perch.

CA.jpg

The internals, good enough for a test ride. With a bit of (essential) foam padding the cavernous internal frame space is quickly gobbled up. The main battery block is 16S 20AH with a DC converter next to it (put there mainly as it perfectly spaces the gap between the end of the controller and the second part of the battery - another 5S 20ah making a total of 21S.
Still to go in there is the big shunt for the CA and later on some other bits and pieces like a usb charger socket.

Internals.jpg
 
Exelent work mate. keep the pics comming. sounds like its going to be a compilation of all the best ideas you've learned allong the way from previos builds. (usb etc)

sorry to harp on about the fuse/ breaker but, if its 12v rated then the arc may not be broken as its what 6x16v=80 so 6 times more EMF making an arc welder from your breaker. amps doesnt make much difference to the voltage capacity AFAIK. It might pull the contact off with more force incase its starting to weld itself shut but if the DC arc occurs the contacts spacing needs to pull away enough for the rated voltage, seeing as its 6 times more the breaker could be on fire before the circut is broken/opened. definately better than nothing though.

the bikes looking frocking sweet man keep it up :)
 
I know this is like ebike 101 stuff, but since you have to run an external shunt for your Sabvoton, is there a calibration process so the CA is accurately reflecting what the controller is getting? Is the Sabvoton set up for a CA to plug into or did you mod that as well? Your build is....as usual, over the top. Neat and bad ass looking ride. Cant wait for the vids!

Rick
 
Hyena said:
Wow Alex, 63A @ 240v mains is an awful lot of power! Like, 15kw. Who the hell can draw that much power from the mains? Good to know though.
Heh, when you spotweld the 18650 cells then it is good to have 15kw or more to the welder or a drying machine down in the washroom :)
 
pendragon8000 said:
sorry to harp on about the fuse/ breaker but, if its 12v rated then the arc may not be broken as its what 6x16v=80 so 6 times more EMF making an arc welder from your breaker.

Listen to this guy, he does a few weeks at tafe and suddenly he's an expert :p
Yeah you're right, and I experienced very early on what happens when you try to use a switch even just a little above it's rating - one of the first bikes I built I used a 24v 30A switch on a 36v 30A controller and it welded shut after 3 actuations. I guess I could test this to destruction to find it's limits but for my application I dont plan to be using it as a switch as such - more of an emergency disconnect if I happen to need it. I think it's unlikely though, especially with everything protected inside the raptor frame. I'm also using heavy duty automotive wire which has much tougher and thicker insulation than the usual soft silicon RC stuff.

My other reasoning for not bothering with fuses is all they're really going to save you from is an accidental short of the discharge leads which in a properly built bike should be essentially impossible. Excessive current draw could then only come from a controller failure causing the main power leads to short, which is pretty unlikely. The huge current delivering ability of big lipo packs usually blows the offending part to pieces resulting in a nice clean open circuit :lol: I'm sure we've all accidentally bumped leads over time. I know when I was building a pack once I accidentally shorted the discharge leads while fitting the connectors. It vaporized a 4mm bullet down to a stub. There's your fuse :p

Rix said:
since you have to run an external shunt for your Sabvoton, is there a calibration process so the CA is accurately reflecting what the controller is getting? Is the Sabvoton set up for a CA to plug into or did you mod that as well?
The sabvoton doesn't use shunts to measure current and has no CADP connector so that's why I need to use an external one. So I'll need to make my own CA connector with the necessary connections - a sense wire at each end of the shunt plus connect up the other wires (battery voltage, speed and throttle) and then it'll work as normal. You just need to enter the correct resistance of the shunt in the CA rshunt value.
I really need to get this sorted quick as I'm blind without it. I only had a brief test ride and it's super smooth and quite rapid but it doesn't have quite the sting I was expecting. With the infineon it was pretty brutal if you grabbed the throttle - this one is nice and smooth but a little too much so - it wouldn't wheelie which I would totally expect at 12kw.
Going by the bum dyno it feels like it's only running around 80A and low (lower than programmed) phase current. I think the controller defaults to 60 or 80A so it may not have flashed properly. It certainly needs more tuning and I need the CA running to properly see the current etc in real time.

I gave it a good flog around the local back streets and though it wasn't a good way to test how hot it would get as it was only about 12 oC the motor and phase wires were cold to the touch (motor measured 20oC) so that's a positive sign! The phase wires on my batshit motor were super hot after such riding, though the controller phase wires were thinner so this may have been causing some upstream resistance and heating. But this further points to it not running as much current as I programmed. Needs moar laptop time :)

It is very quiet though unlike in the video. The first thing as I rolled away was the complete absence of motor noise and once you're moving it's nothing but tyre noise. You do hear it a little as the speed gets up but it's very minor.

Your build is....as usual, over the top. Neat and bad ass looking ride. Cant wait for the vids!
Cheers! I'm looking forward to giving it a proper run and make some vids too! The first opportunity will be the hunter EV festival so that'll be a nice christening for it :)
 
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