dan974
1 kW
doesn't it happen when you hit the little gap on the bridge ? doesn't you fork have now a little dead zone about 1cm when going down without any compression ? couldn't be a fork leak ? how far is the last maintenance ?
Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)
- Thread starter Hyena
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Hyena
10 GW
It's shortly after a gap in the bridge but not immediately. I suspect as Joe said it's bordering on voodoodan974 said:
Everything on the bike is new with less than 1000ks on it. Forks are fine with no air leak etc
I did note when riding over the bridge the following day that the surface is not as smooth as it appears and there's some micro ripples and lumps and bumbs in that stretch that combined with the cross wind could have unsettled the bike. Strange that I ride over it every day and have done for the last few years without incident though...
Anyway here's another vid of my batshit fighter vs a 2012 stealth bomber
Drag race first and then a hill climbing test. The bomber is running what I assume is the 5404 and I noted peaks while riding of ~5000w. The CA showed peak current of 100a but I'm guessing this was just a transient spike and it was more like ~70a under load. The battery in my fighter is shagged so only running ~6000w. 100 amps peak but less voltage than the bomber sagging down to ~60v under full throttle.
A bit of instinctive counter balancing at the end which I didnt even realise I was doing until watching the footage back. I was turned around talking while accelerating hard up the hill then clipped the edge of the road. I just managed to hold it but Mark ran off
[youtube]Do7UdnC2JhI[/youtube]
Rix
100 TW
Damn Jay, I watched your vid on 1080p and blew it up to full screen. I love your drivetrain. You got the invisible chain and the invisible rear brake. Where can I get some of those 
Like I said on the Stealth thread, I think you are correct with that Bomber having a 5404. 70KPH is about what I get out of mine. But not for long, I will be dropping to 60KPH as soon as I get the 5405 on which BTW, arrived yesterday. Wont be anytime soon though, got to lace it up, going with an 18 MC wheel since I already tried several 19MC and 17MC rim/tire combos.
Rick
Like I said on the Stealth thread, I think you are correct with that Bomber having a 5404. 70KPH is about what I get out of mine. But not for long, I will be dropping to 60KPH as soon as I get the 5405 on which BTW, arrived yesterday. Wont be anytime soon though, got to lace it up, going with an 18 MC wheel since I already tried several 19MC and 17MC rim/tire combos. Rick
pendragon8000
100 kW
Hey Jay, just watched the "tank slapper" vid.
i had/have the same issue on my scott spark. I took it to the LBS and a guy there said "tank slapper?" i didnt know what he meant. but i got them to true the front wheel cos my guy there is really good and it still did it. really strange. it only started after i accidently went over a small drop in grass at high speed where i almost came off. did you find the cause of your speed wobbles thing? would be interested to know if you fixed it.
i had/have the same issue on my scott spark. I took it to the LBS and a guy there said "tank slapper?" i didnt know what he meant. but i got them to true the front wheel cos my guy there is really good and it still did it. really strange. it only started after i accidently went over a small drop in grass at high speed where i almost came off. did you find the cause of your speed wobbles thing? would be interested to know if you fixed it.
winkinatcha
10 kW
seriously PD, check your headset... with the front wheel off the ground, if there is any hesitation when you turn the handlebars side to side, that may be the problem... stipling (more likely with oldschool ball bearings), and other results from big impact can affect the headset in a way that you don't notice in "normal" operation but due to the harmonics of vibration, weight distribution and other true science but seeming voodoo to this small-brained duck, experience and reading suggests a "slightly off" headset seems to often be the cause of the "tank slap". Slightly off being too lo0se, too tight, or with tight or hesitation spots.
Secondary thing is trying to get the weight more to the front, but with your rig and no change in bike layout, weight distro doesn't seem a likely cause.
joe
Secondary thing is trying to get the weight more to the front, but with your rig and no change in bike layout, weight distro doesn't seem a likely cause.
joe
Hyena
10 GW
Ultra stealth components from the Hyena Industries R&D departmentRix said:I love your drivetrain. You got the invisible chain and the invisible rear brake. Where can I get some of those
Tell the boys and girls watching at home how many MC rims and tyre sets you have now!
I hereby name you, 'Lord of the rims'
Maybe don't go announcing yourself as that down at the local gay bar though...
18" is a good compromise though for a stealth, not much visually smaller than the stock set up or a 19" moto rim but with a tad better mechanical advantage and more tyre options
The bike is fine but every time I hit that exact spot it happens. I will shoot a video this afternoon using my patented teethcam(tm) demonstrating the stability of the bike hands free over an assortment of rough and smooth surfaces up until this exact point.pendragon8000 said:
I have concluded that it's a rift in the time-space continuum at that point on the bridge. At some point in the future an epic event is going to occur in that location resulting in a permanent fracture in the fabric of the universe. Considering I ride that route every day I suspect it probably relates to future-Hyena and the testing of some even sillier batshit prototype
Also on the moto front I found a good madass that I want to buy but the bloke won't come down the extra $100 on price that I want. It's also 300km away which adds to my enthusiasm to commit. Despite only having 4000km on the clock it has a dicky clutch and an oil leak. This wont matter for the electric conversion obviously but it has to last me 3-6 months to get through my Ps test and while I'll be fine with the cluch on the road it'll make life tough for the Ps test.
There's also a suzuki GSF bandit for sale locally which I could probably get for only a few hundred more and it'd be a heap more fun to ride in the mean time.
Supposedly the 4 cyl engine makes 34kw which seems like an aweful lot for a 250... (6 times more power than the madass for only double the capacity)
Reviews describe it as a "hooligans bike" which sounds like just the ticket
Rix
100 TW
Tell the boys and girls watching at home how many MC rims and tyre sets you have now!
I hereby name you, 'Lord of the rims'
Maybe don't go announcing yourself as that down at the local gay bar though...
I have 3 19s, 3 18s, and 2 17s, would have been 3 17s but I gave one away awhile back. Lord of the rims, yah, better stay out the gay bars with that title. That Madass would make a neat Ecycle. what do you plan on doing to it?
Rick
I hereby name you, 'Lord of the rims'
Maybe don't go announcing yourself as that down at the local gay bar though...
I have 3 19s, 3 18s, and 2 17s, would have been 3 17s but I gave one away awhile back. Lord of the rims, yah, better stay out the gay bars with that title. That Madass would make a neat Ecycle. what do you plan on doing to it?
Rick
Hyena
10 GW
I'm in a few minds as to which sort of direction to take it.
I'd like to go to a chain drive but I also like the stealth and simplicity of a hub. Plus offroad handing isnt an issue and I dont even have to pretend it's a bike so I could go a bit stupid with the rear hub if I wanted. You can get epic hub motors that are like 25kg but I probably wouldn't go that overboard. I'll be bursting big power on acceleration but won't be sustaining it for long periods of time so the sort of e-moto/cro-clones with upgrades would probably suffice.
I'm also tossing up whether to keep the steel frame or have something remade in aluminium. Weigh saving wouldn't be significant (if anything it'd come out heavier) but the main reason would be to oversize the frame to house the batteries internally. Either way the controller will probably go under the seat in place of the old exhaust.
At the simplest I could bolt on a battery box to the old engine mounts like so:
Or with minimal extension and modification of the stock frame I could house probably 24S 20ah like below. This would be the ultimate in stealth and cause people at the lights to wonder what sort of acid they accidently poured on their cornflakes that morning
Or go with a bigger tank section on the underside like this. I think if I'm going to the trouble of modding the frame this would be my preference
Or go a bit nuts with huge battery carrying capacity. This could be either a big custom frame or standard sports bike type fairings. If I'm going down this route though I'd just pick this sort of bike to start with and just gutting it all out underneath
I'd like to go to a chain drive but I also like the stealth and simplicity of a hub. Plus offroad handing isnt an issue and I dont even have to pretend it's a bike so I could go a bit stupid with the rear hub if I wanted. You can get epic hub motors that are like 25kg but I probably wouldn't go that overboard. I'll be bursting big power on acceleration but won't be sustaining it for long periods of time so the sort of e-moto/cro-clones with upgrades would probably suffice.
I'm also tossing up whether to keep the steel frame or have something remade in aluminium. Weigh saving wouldn't be significant (if anything it'd come out heavier) but the main reason would be to oversize the frame to house the batteries internally. Either way the controller will probably go under the seat in place of the old exhaust.
At the simplest I could bolt on a battery box to the old engine mounts like so:
Or with minimal extension and modification of the stock frame I could house probably 24S 20ah like below. This would be the ultimate in stealth and cause people at the lights to wonder what sort of acid they accidently poured on their cornflakes that morning
Or go with a bigger tank section on the underside like this. I think if I'm going to the trouble of modding the frame this would be my preference
Or go a bit nuts with huge battery carrying capacity. This could be either a big custom frame or standard sports bike type fairings. If I'm going down this route though I'd just pick this sort of bike to start with and just gutting it all out underneath
Rix
100 TW
Since it will be an E Moto, might as well go as big as you can. A battery with about 4KW of storage capacity should be enough for about 100Km of range at intermittent speeds. I like where you are going with it. Just to bad we aren't independantly wealthy and have the ability to focus solely on e powered home builds. Bought another lottery ticket, crossing my fingers, but not holding my breath.
Rick
Rick
Hyena
10 GW
Yeah more watthrs would be nice and it would be certainly nice to just go out for a long ride without having to plan where you're going and distance etc.Rix said:
But there's 2 main factors with this build - I want to keep it minimalistic and I'm happy with a range of 50km (~30mi) because I'll largely just take it around locally which is never more than a 20km trip in any direction. The other factor is the missing lottery ticket that you mentioned above! Big batteries = big $$. If I use lipo or li-ion I'll probably only get 2 years of use out of the pack but by then lithium tech will be better so I'll be looking to upgrade to the latest hotness, or by then you'll have won that 20 million lotto draw and bought your old buddy Hyena a new Zero SR
Speaking of modded tanked sections on bikes, completely randomly I happened across this bike while googling for a new moto helmet. The angular panel sections look pretty cool IMO and I could go down that line that with obvious joins rather than trying to make it a neat monococque (ie along the lines of stealth bikes etc)
Check out the top of the tank, it even looks like something I'd make!! haha
Rix
100 TW
Looks like someone to an old Trail 70, or even a 90, and added a Desmodromic valved V2 to it. That motor screams vintage Ducati. Yah, the panel where the gas tank would be is something like I would expect from a Hyean creation. Yah, if I a nail the lotto this time, you and I have a career change coming . I will quite my Sanitation Job for sure. I am thinking an EBike and Mirco Brewery shop. Get pissed and take piss while your Ebike gets serviced. :lol:
. I will quite my Sanitation Job for sure. I am thinking an EBike and Mirco Brewery shop. Get pissed and take piss while your Ebike gets serviced. :lol:
Hyena
10 GW
Sounds like a plan! And out the back we have big custom made tracka - a tight twisty dirt single track with a few jumps and a second second kart style street track for racing 8)Rix said:
Here's a vid of that the mystery bridge that causes tank slappers on my bike. As the footage shows it's dead stable otherwise. Bizzare!
[youtube]rjVhXPM95uw[/youtube]
winkinatcha
10 kW
Awsome Vid Jay... The no hands stuff looks ace
here's my take...
the bridge is bitumen over planking (guess, I can hear the regular bumping as the bike proceeds along the bridge)
Those bumps, combined with the right speed, are at just the right frequency to kick the front wheel back and forth... you can see the wheel trying to "slap" in synch with the bumpss.... i'm betting if you took the bridge at 50km/h you wouldn't notice a thing. like wise at 15km/h///
But yeah... I would say deffo tank slapper is set up in this case by the constant and regular bumping of the surface which I suspect is planks (wood or concrete) with bitumen laid on top, which will replicate the inevenness/gap between each plank and at the right speed will stuff up your steering...
Joe
here's my take...
the bridge is bitumen over planking (guess, I can hear the regular bumping as the bike proceeds along the bridge)
Those bumps, combined with the right speed, are at just the right frequency to kick the front wheel back and forth... you can see the wheel trying to "slap" in synch with the bumpss.... i'm betting if you took the bridge at 50km/h you wouldn't notice a thing. like wise at 15km/h///
But yeah... I would say deffo tank slapper is set up in this case by the constant and regular bumping of the surface which I suspect is planks (wood or concrete) with bitumen laid on top, which will replicate the inevenness/gap between each plank and at the right speed will stuff up your steering...
Joe
winkinatcha
10 kW
regular bumps... and tank slappers...
Reminds of a night motorcycle ride, coming back from the skydiving drop zone in rural Vic, heading at high speed, back to the city via badly lit straight line dodgy surfaced country roads, my mate's headlight blown so him taking the inside left of the lane, and me on his right to the rear, tucked up in tight formation, lighting the road for both of us.. whack, three potholes on the shoulder bang bang bang, my mate's 16" wheel 400cc racebike zips straight into a tank slapper of epic proportions and he starts doing some highspeed wobbling all over the place, while I am on the brakes trying to keep out of his way... tank slapper reaches point of no return, bike hi-sides and mate goes flying into the dark, I brake to a stop, can't see a thing, car comes over a crest just as my mate stands up sourrounded by this ghostly cloud of back lit dust, in silhouettte, rasing his hands to the sky...
In the dark, once he'd come off his bike, he couldn't tell what direction he was sliding on, put his hands down on the road surface... was sliding backwards and ripped of both his gloves and a bit of his palms... hence the raising hands to sky once he stopped... He'd also broken his arm, though we didn't realise that 'til the next day... dinked him on the back of my bike to the army base as he was on duty in a couple of hours... failed during exercises, sent to doc... x-rayed with busted arm
Joe
Reminds of a night motorcycle ride, coming back from the skydiving drop zone in rural Vic, heading at high speed, back to the city via badly lit straight line dodgy surfaced country roads, my mate's headlight blown so him taking the inside left of the lane, and me on his right to the rear, tucked up in tight formation, lighting the road for both of us.. whack, three potholes on the shoulder bang bang bang, my mate's 16" wheel 400cc racebike zips straight into a tank slapper of epic proportions and he starts doing some highspeed wobbling all over the place, while I am on the brakes trying to keep out of his way... tank slapper reaches point of no return, bike hi-sides and mate goes flying into the dark, I brake to a stop, can't see a thing, car comes over a crest just as my mate stands up sourrounded by this ghostly cloud of back lit dust, in silhouettte, rasing his hands to the sky...
In the dark, once he'd come off his bike, he couldn't tell what direction he was sliding on, put his hands down on the road surface... was sliding backwards and ripped of both his gloves and a bit of his palms... hence the raising hands to sky once he stopped... He'd also broken his arm, though we didn't realise that 'til the next day... dinked him on the back of my bike to the army base as he was on duty in a couple of hours... failed during exercises, sent to doc... x-rayed with busted arm
Joe
Rix
100 TW
winkinatcha said:Awsome Vid Jay... The no hands stuff looks ace
here's my take...
the bridge is bitumen over planking (guess, I can hear the regular bumping as the bike proceeds along the bridge)
Those bumps, combined with the right speed, are at just the right frequency to kick the front wheel back and forth... you can see the wheel trying to "slap" in synch with the bumpss.... i'm betting if you took the bridge at 50km/h you wouldn't notice a thing. like wise at 15km/h///
But yeah... I would say deffo tank slapper is set up in this case by the constant and regular bumping of the surface which I suspect is planks (wood or concrete) with bitumen laid on top, which will replicate the inevenness/gap between each plank and at the right speed will stuff up your steering...
Joe
I agree with Joe on this, right combo of things happening at the right moment to cause the issue. Probably nothing else within 100 klicks that would do that to your machine.
Rick
Hyena
10 GW
Sounds like a nasty incident with your mate Joe!
Your theory sounds good, though I suspect it's not actually bitumen over planks because leading up to that point and coming in the opposite direction it's fairly smooth. There's just something in that small stretch that as you said, is just the right frequency to set shit off. I still think it could be a tear in space-time
Moral of the story is, don't ride with my arms out like I'm standing on the bow of the titanic (which I have to admit is a friday afternoon ritual in summer)
Here's an unrelated clip from during the week of a guy who seemingly got his license from the bottom of a cheap box of cereal...
[youtube]6XdnHaQOhYE[/youtube]
Your theory sounds good, though I suspect it's not actually bitumen over planks because leading up to that point and coming in the opposite direction it's fairly smooth. There's just something in that small stretch that as you said, is just the right frequency to set shit off. I still think it could be a tear in space-time
Moral of the story is, don't ride with my arms out like I'm standing on the bow of the titanic (which I have to admit is a friday afternoon ritual in summer)
Here's an unrelated clip from during the week of a guy who seemingly got his license from the bottom of a cheap box of cereal...
[youtube]6XdnHaQOhYE[/youtube]
Rix
100 TW
In my line of work Jay, we call drivers like that "Job Security". What a water head.
Rick
Rick
winkinatcha
10 kW
*****In my line of work Jay, we call drivers like that "Job Security"***
Hahaha! Another Rick one liner win!
Joe
Hahaha! Another Rick one liner win!
Joe
Hyena
10 GW
Haha, job security indeed!
I had a chance to pull apart the motor off my specialized that I wrecked the other week. It wasnt the clutch as I suspected by the composite gears. They didn't fail via peanut buttering as many in the past have with higher power but rather it looks as though it was a single or series of high torque launches that probably caused them to fail. Either the metal sun gear has chewed them or just too much plastic on plastic torque.
It actually let go right at the top of a long steep hill after pulling max power for about 2 minutes so I wonder if the gears didnt get heated up and became softer and then the next application of power finished them off. It did initially sound more like a clutch failure when they first let go (roughly freewheeling internally but no wheel movement) but then after cooling down it worked with a rough knock, the cause of which is now evident.
So I should have probably replaced the clutch too but for now I've left the original clutch with just new gears in the interest of R&D. It'll be interesting to see how it holds up with more normal use after torture testing.
I had a chance to pull apart the motor off my specialized that I wrecked the other week. It wasnt the clutch as I suspected by the composite gears. They didn't fail via peanut buttering as many in the past have with higher power but rather it looks as though it was a single or series of high torque launches that probably caused them to fail. Either the metal sun gear has chewed them or just too much plastic on plastic torque.
It actually let go right at the top of a long steep hill after pulling max power for about 2 minutes so I wonder if the gears didnt get heated up and became softer and then the next application of power finished them off. It did initially sound more like a clutch failure when they first let go (roughly freewheeling internally but no wheel movement) but then after cooling down it worked with a rough knock, the cause of which is now evident.
So I should have probably replaced the clutch too but for now I've left the original clutch with just new gears in the interest of R&D. It'll be interesting to see how it holds up with more normal use after torture testing.
Architectonic
10 kW
How do you get the gears off without damaging them?
I've never seen melted gears in 11,000 km of ~2000w, I'm guessing you were running higher power at some stage?
I've never seen melted gears in 11,000 km of ~2000w, I'm guessing you were running higher power at some stage?
Hyena
10 GW
With the clutch assembly removed they're only held on by a small circlip. It's actually smaller than the smallest tip I had to my circlip tool so I just distorted them out with a little jewellers screwdriver. They should then slide right off the shaft with minimal encouragement (1 pretty much fell off, the other 2 came away with just gentle levering underneath with a screw driver.
The hardest part is the grease all over everything in there so it's as slippery as... well, something covered in grease :lol:
If the clutch lets go like I suspect it will I can make a video of the process next time if you like. If I thought the windings could take it I'd fit metal gears and a welded clutch and go for broke, but considering kepler has smoked the windings in 2 or 3 of these that's probably of little use.
And yeah, I suspect I accidently put 4kw through it :lol:
I programmed it for 35A but used an old controller I had laying around that I forgot had double shunts in it, so it was probably more like 70A! Awesome power from such a little package while it lasted though!
The hardest part is the grease all over everything in there so it's as slippery as... well, something covered in grease :lol:
If the clutch lets go like I suspect it will I can make a video of the process next time if you like. If I thought the windings could take it I'd fit metal gears and a welded clutch and go for broke, but considering kepler has smoked the windings in 2 or 3 of these that's probably of little use.
And yeah, I suspect I accidently put 4kw through it :lol:
I programmed it for 35A but used an old controller I had laying around that I forgot had double shunts in it, so it was probably more like 70A! Awesome power from such a little package while it lasted though!
dan974
1 kW
[youtube]rjVhXPM95uw[/youtube][/quote]
it's better your fork than the whole bridge
[youtube]j-zczJXSxnw[/youtube]
it's better your fork than the whole bridge
[youtube]j-zczJXSxnw[/youtube]
Architectonic
10 kW
Hyena said:
Must be the new gear design, because I couldn't force mine off when holding the clutch assembly and pushing hard with the gear on the edge of a table. And yes, I took the circlips off first.
I ended up damaging the gear trying to get mine off (the gear slid against the bearing mechanism). Didn't realise it was a problem until the noise a few rides later.
On a different note, bicycle saddles: I'm guessing you guys have tried a few? The only saddle I have liked was the original Giant branded saddle, which is well and truly worn out now. I'm struggling to find a replacement which is truly comfortable for commuting? I've tried a Clarks 'comfort' saddle and Fizzik mtb saddle and they were both horrible. I'm average when it comes to build, so that helps (5'11", 70-75kg etc).
I'm asking in this thread because all the Aussies regularly read this thread. :wink:
t3sla
10 kW
Fun fact about saddles, harder ones are better for longer trips as they enable blood to keep circulating.
Large soft gel seats = numb ass after a while...which is fine if you're into that :lol:
Large soft gel seats = numb ass after a while...which is fine if you're into that :lol:
Rix
100 TW
Architectonic said:Hyena said:
Must be the new gear design, because I couldn't force mine off when holding the clutch assembly and pushing hard with the gear on the edge of a table. And yes, I took the circlips off first.
I ended up damaging the gear trying to get mine off (the gear slid against the bearing mechanism). Didn't realise it was a problem until the noise a few rides later.
On a different note, bicycle saddles: I'm guessing you guys have tried a few? The only saddle I have liked was the original Giant branded saddle, which is well and truly worn out now. I'm struggling to find a replacement which is truly comfortable for commuting? I've tried a Clarks 'comfort' saddle and Fizzik mtb saddle and they were both horrible. I'm average when it comes to build, so that helps (5'11", 70-75kg etc).
I'm asking in this thread because all the Aussies regularly read this thread. :wink:
Look into a Brooks saddle. Quigley (owner of QMS or Quigley Motor Sports) swears by them and has modded several of his customer bikes with this saddle.
Rick
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