Hyena's e-bike builds (now with HD video)

[Hyena]

hahaha totally! I've seen that exact reaction from a number of people test riding my bikes :lol:
Second half was copy of the cow scene from me,myself,irene

 

[Rix]

That speederbike vid was funny stuff, your 2012 year in review was a great watch as well. Good emphasis on the highlights.

 

[Kike Ming]

Excellent video Hyena! Nice bike, You live in some beautiful country. Also good to know about the custom spokes for the Crown motor just in case the bike rim doesn't hold up and I have to switch to a MC rim and tire.

 

[Rix]

Any updates on the TC80? Also, I got some more lace job in the works and want to know if the H40 spoke hole diameter is the same size as the 54xx series, which is 4mm? Got another project in the works and will be lacing a 4080 to 18x1.4 MC rim.

Rick

 

[Hyena]

Thanks Kike. I haven't been making many vids lately, been too busy rebuilding my workshop, general life, etc. Minimal time to ride and even less to make vids. But I have some new stuff on the way so will bust out the camera soon.

Rix, the TC80 is going well. I will measure the spoke hole when I get home tonight. But you know it's not a traditional spoke hole as such, it's open and slotted ?
Ie:

The combination of the extra torque from the TC + the berm masters make for a more tail happy rear end. A few times I've felt it start to break loose powering out of bends which is not always ideal. Looking at my tyre prints in the sand/mud you can see the berm masters have a big fat ole' footprint but it's not gripping terribly hard. You can see my front track and those of other, lighter bikes are digging deeper.



I still haven't had a chance to replace my tired saggy old lipo pack in the fighter but when I do I'm sure the extra 20v odd will really bring it to life. After easter I'll pull it down for a rebuilt, panel beat the dent from my last crash then have it sandblasted and re-powder coated. New crank arms too, new pedals, new grips - she'll be a whole new beast. I was going to go a different colour but then it won't match my newish white helmet Still not sure whether to weld over the CA holes in the frame or just leave it with something else there in place. I'll be running a BMS this time so won't need external balance port.

As per my facebook page here's a shot of the fighter from the weekend.
No trail bikes ? No worries!!

 

[Rix]

Yah, the narrow part of the spoke slit on the TC is 3mm wide, should be good for 11g spokes. I wanted to know what the spoke hole diameter is on your H4065 or 4080. I am hoping they are the same as the 54xx which is 4mm. Yah, I love that pic of the no trail bike sign and the Figther. Sounds like you are going to be giving your Fighter a hell of a face lift this Australian Fall, known as spring in the Northern Hemisphere. So is your lipo sagging 20 volts, or are you going to a 22/24s setup? Sounds like you really like the TC80. How does it compare to your 4080 in terms of power to the ground? Definately sounds like the TC 80 is more efficient. Sounds like your croclone running 12S would be the ticket, any more thoughts on that?

Rick

 

[Hyena]

Currently running 18S but it sags 10v hot off the charge. The most I pull from it these days is around 60% discharge at which point I'm down around 3.2v/cell under load but it bounces straight back up. So I'm essentially running 3C cells now :lol: I'm swapping it out for 21S pack so it should have a fair bit more sting with the combination of 10v higher to start with + minimal sag in a new pack.

The TC80 is certainly more resilient than the H40. I haven't run them back to back but there's probably not much in it. The real benefit of the TC80 is it certainly runs cooler so you can go harder for longer. It's also more efficient, so the extra copper benefits 2 fold - allows it to take the power better and also dissipates more heat (+ the cast stator that soaks it up). I'm keen to try the TC65 on the new pack too. I think the extra voltage will actually make it the perfect offroader.

The croclone is still sitting neglected in the corner. I really must get back around to that soon. I atleast need to pop the side cover and see if I smoked a winding or just a hall.

Oh and the H40s have a 4mm spoke hole, or close to it. If I had to put money on it I'd say it looked closer to 3.5mm but my calipers aren't terribly precise at measuring such a small ID

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Still not sure whether to weld over the CA holes in the frame or just leave it with something else there in place. I'll be running a BMS this time so won't need external balance port.

Hey, if your no longer going to be using that balance port/wire you made, I'll gladly take it off your hands as I'm planning on adding a large screen CAv3 to my Fighter soon and could do with that exact part for balancing. I'm remembering the old parallel printer cable you made - is that still what your referring to? In fact I was planning on making one the same.

Cheers

 

[Rix]

Currently running 18S but it sags 10v hot off the charge. The most I pull from it these days is around 60% discharge at which point I'm down around 3.2v/cell under load but it bounces straight back up. So I'm essentially running 3C cells now :lol: I'm swapping it out for 21S pack so it should have a fair bit more sting with the combination of 10v higher to start with + minimal sag in a new pack.

The TC80 is certainly more resilient than the H40. I haven't run them back to back but there's probably not much in it. The real benefit of the TC80 is it certainly runs cooler so you can go harder for longer. It's also more efficient, so the extra copper benefits 2 fold - allows it to take the power better and also dissipates more heat (+ the cast stator that soaks it up). I'm keen to try the TC65 on the new pack too. I think the extra voltage will actually make it the perfect offroader.

The croclone is still sitting neglected in the corner. I really must get back around to that soon. I atleast need to pop the side cover and see if I smoked a winding or just a hall.

Oh and the H40s have a 4mm spoke hole, or close to it. If I had to put money on it I'd say it looked closer to 3.5mm but my calipers aren't terribly precise at measuring such a small ID

Thanks Jay, hope its 4mm, I got some big ass 3.6mm spokes, may have to drill a little, hope not. They worked on one of my 54xx builds so we will see. As far as the TC goes, do you think it could benefit from being vented? Or is the design adequate for say your 9KW bursts? Yah that TC80 with 88 volts hot off the charger will run like crazy, and to boot any 24cell Lifepo4 charger would handle bulk charging duties in the event you end up not going with a purpose build BMS on you pack. The more I think about your speeds with your croclone, the more I believe it has a 3 turn wind on that 50+mm wide stator. Just a little to fast to have a 4 turn stator like they Greyborg Cromotors do. That would be the perfect 12s 5 to 7 KW motor which would be like 100-150 bat amps into the controller. I bet that would be the best low voltage set up out there. Well, I guess I will hang back and chomp at the bit while you freshen up your Fighter.

Rick

 

[Rodney64]

Any updates on the TC80? Also, I got some more lace job in the works and want to know if the H40 spoke hole diameter is the same size as the 54xx series, which is 4mm? Got another project in the works and will be lacing a 4080 to 18x1.4 MC rim.

Rick

Rick, Interested to see how it performs and the reason why you decided to try the 4080.

 

[Hyena]

Hey, if your no longer going to be using that balance port/wire you made, I'll gladly take it off your hands as I'm planning on adding a large screen CAv3 to my Fighter soon and could do with that exact part for balancing. I'm remembering the old parallel printer cable you made - is that still what your referring to? In fact I was planning on making one the same.

Heh, wishful thinking ducky
I have other bikes running 18S so I'll be hanging onto it. They're not hard to make, just time consuming. That and the bare centronics connectors are becoming increasingly hard to find these days. The ones I got were from some ebay seller clearing old stock from an old tandys/radioshack type place and the phone number on the packaging puts them around the late 80s to early 90s!

I got some big ass 3.6mm spokes, may have to drill a little, hope not.

I think you'll probably be right, it'll be a tight fit but better than the other way around. And a quick touch up with the drill wouldn't take long if you need.

They worked on one of my 54xx builds so we will see.

You know the spoke flange is different on the H series motors to the 5400 series night ? The 5400s are about 10mm bigger in diametre so your spokes from that motor will be ~10mm too short for a H40.

As far as the TC goes, do you think it could benefit from being vented?

I think all motors that you're giving a hard time benefit from being vented. The question is whether you ride it hard enough, often enough to make it worth the effort. As usual crystalyte is using that god awful epoxy crap in the side cover threads and cheese alloy screws which strip before the epoxy breaks, making getting the side covers off a real chore. I think it's adequate for the occasional 9kw burst but if you were running a TC100 at high speed continuously (eg commuting along an uphill highway or something) I reckon it could get a bit hot and bothered. I'm speccing all my motors with a 10k NTC thermistor now so drilled or not you can keep things under control with the CAV3.
If you're running a H40 with a heavy mx rim and tyre I'd definitely recommend venting it on anything over 48v

The more I think about your speeds with your croclone, the more I believe it has a 3 turn wind on that 50+mm wide stator.

Yeah quite likely. It actually turned out to be a 45mm stator in the end so actually somewhere between a cromotor and a H40/TC. What ever the wind it'd be the same as the TC100. As you say, that wind on 48v would perform well and it's a good solution for running lower voltage, higher current

 

[Rix]

Any updates on the TC80? Also, I got some more lace job in the works and want to know if the H40 spoke hole diameter is the same size as the 54xx series, which is 4mm? Got another project in the works and will be lacing a 4080 to 18x1.4 MC rim.

Rick

Rick, Interested to see how it performs and the reason why you decided to try the 4080.

Just broadening my horizons with the 4080, its appealing because they are 200 bucks cheaper than the 54xx and I got enough of those laying around now, just experimenting with a lighter weight set up.

[quoteYou know the spoke flange is different on the H series motors to the 5400 series night ? The 5400s are about 10mm bigger in diametre so your spokes from that motor will be ~10mm too short for a H40.
]

[/quote]

Very true Jay, that why I have 119mm long spokes instead of the 115m I used when I laced the 5405 up to the 18"MC rim. Damn man, you should know that I know I am aware of that :lol: :?

Rick

 

[Hyena]

Just broadening my horizons with the 4080, its appealing because they are 200 bucks cheaper than the 54xx and I got enough of those laying around now, just experimenting with a lighter weight set up.

You bought it yet ? You got a local supplier for crowns ? They'd be my pic for now, and if you're used to punishing a 5400 the H40s are lighter duty.

Very true Jay, that why I have 119mm long spokes instead of the 115m I used when I laced the 5405 up to the 18"MC rim. Damn man, you should know that I know I am aware of that :lol: :?

Heh all good mate. When you said they worked on your 5400 build I thought you were talking about the same actual spokes rather than just that size. I know this aint your first rodeo

 

[Hyena]

Rix your comments on the croclone prompted me to dust it off last night and try and get to the bottom of the issues with it.
My first port of call when testing a failed motor is to hook it up throw with a sensorless controller. If it runs OK you know the windings/phase wires are OK and it's likely a crook hall wire/sensor. I did this and the motor just stuttered when I gave it throttle. Bummer!
I popped it open expecting to see burnt windings or phase wires but to my surprise it was pristine inside with not even any discolouration of the windings (impressive considering the power I'd been shoving through the sealed motor). I also forgot that I'd fitted a 110oC themostat that never tripped on me so that's another testament to the motor.
So, what gives you say ?
Checking the bullets on the end the phase wires were all good another nothing looked untoward. Then I noticed a hall wire was clean broken where the outer sheath of insulation was stripped back. I must have either slightly nicked the hall insulation when stripping back the outer layer or the it just broke from the weight of the relatively heavy mini xlr plug flexing around and leveraging it against the fat wall of the outer insulation.
But that still doesn't explain why it didn't work sensorless. And then I realised this is the fastest wind motor I've ever tested and many sensorless controllers spit the dummy with high speeds. I know in early testing of crystaylte HS3540s on 72v they would start stuttering and carrying on with crystalyte sensorless controllers above around 50km/hr. I was only running 48v on this test sensorless controller but it turned out due to the higher speed winding of the motor it had the same effect, essentially hitting an unhappy rpm it couldn't keep up with. When I gave the motor a spin by hand and eased the throttle on ever so gently it ran fine. Anything more than 20% throttle once happily running resulted it it abruptly stuttering and stopping, and any amount of throttle from a dead stop gave instant stuttering.
To verify I threw a TC65 on the same controller and it instantly spun straight up from dead stop and 3/4 throttle.

So there's a hot tip for those of you playing at home who might be inclined to use sensorless controllers on very high speed motors. Computer says no.

Now Rix, I gotta find a low voltage sensored controller I can put on this thing to test on 12S!

 

[Rix]

Wow, thats impressive about the condition of the stator looking shiny, nice, and new. Not even vented and it looks that good. Also, your thermasistor never engaged on the sealed motor, another very impressive detail. Yah, its funny how problems with the motors sometimes turn out to be the most over looked obvious issue. With my 5404, I had some problems in the begining, turn out my disk rotor had worn through the heat shrink and through the Sensor wire housing and into one of the actual sensor wires. Some times it would run fine, then for no reason, would fall on its face and stutter vibrate like a 9.9 ritcher scale quake. I had that stator apart and back together a few times trying to figure that out. And like I said, adding to the confusion was that sometime it ran well, and sometimes it didn't. What I think was happening was when the rear disk actually contacted the sensor wire, it caused it to short, then the wire would move through pedaling or what ever and seperate allowing normal function. What ever the reason it was, when I removed the housing, put some heat shring on the wire, then used a super big thick 3/4 to 1/4 super heavy duty heat shrink tube that took a blow torch to shrivel up around the wires, my problem was solved. That and an extra zip tie on the axle keeping the phase and sensor wires pushed away from the disk, never had that problem again. Then the bullet on the green phase wire coming out of the controller, once again the last thing I checked. Of course we don't keep trying to fix shit and searching after we find the problem, but I had the 5405 apart, took comparion photos with the 5403 and 5404, and emailed Kenny trying to understand why it wasn't do anything as good as the 5404. Oh well, working on my ebike is making me a better and knowledgible enthusiast. Yah, back to your cro clone, definately need to get yourself a sensored controller and run that motor on 12s at 110 batt amps input. Figure a top speed between 34mph to 37MPH and pulling like a diesel doing it. I really believe this will be the best low volt set up there is. Call it an educated hunch based on your high speed expirementation.

Rick

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I've found my Fighter with it's HS4080 running 12S6P lately has been great. More than enough top end for me. On 100% throttle it still makes it up to 60kmh fine. I even tried 120% throttle and it was pushing 70kmh+...and all on 12S, 44V nominal

I've found this setup to also be more economical, using less overall battery capacity to go the same distance. My work commute on 18S was using 600-750Wh, where as it now only uses 550-650Wh. 8)

Cheers

 

[Rix]

I've found my Fighter with it's HS4080 running 12S6P lately has been great. More than enough top end for me. On 100% throttle it still makes it up to 60kmh fine. I even tried 120% throttle and it was pushing 70kmh+...and all on 12S, 44V nominal

I've found this setup to also be more economical, using less overall battery capacity to go the same distance. My work commute on 18S was using 600-750Wh, where as it now only uses 550-650Wh. 8)

Cheers

Damn Cd, thats really quite quick for a 12s set up As I commented above, Jays croclone running 12s and 110amp would be the cats meow for low voltage set ups. I wonder what that thing would do with a advanced re-programed controller running north of 100%? Could be as fast as 42MPH set up on 12s. BTW, thats quite a decrease in WH consumption. Again, very impressive.

Jay, no rush, but some time later this year, I need to buy a HEB cro-clone and a controller to go with it from you. I think when I start fabricating my build later on this year, your croclone and controller are going on it. Can I get that with Honeywell sensors, and quality halls and 11g teflon wires? Also, do you know the bearings size for that, I will be pressing in SKF RS2 units when the time comes.

Rick

Rick

 

[Kike Ming]

Very, very cool. Great video! You guys are putting out really good stuff. I thank you!

 

[Hyena]

So it seems it's not just pendragon that has attracted the attention of the police recently.
I ducked out from work early this afternoon on my stealth fighter, accidently knocked it out of 200w mode and may have gotten the throttle stuck wide open for a few seconds. Evidently a not so friendly police officer clocked me at 78km/hr in a 40 zone and I'm now sitting in the local lockup. Not sure where my bike is now. I guess that 'you get one call' thing is just for the movies as they didn't take my phone.
More later...

 

[Allex]

Whoa!
But you could prolly keep the phone because of the speeding on the bike and not killing someone.
Keep us posted.

 

[Gregory]

That must be why the yanks call them CELL phones.

 

[Architectonic]

OG really! :lol:

edit - see you on Friday when you make bail.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Interesting date to be posting such things Jay.

 

[pendragon8000]

So it seems it's not just pendragon that has attracted the attention of the police recently.
I ducked out from work early this afternoon on my stealth fighter, accidently knocked it out of 200w mode and may have gotten the throttle stuck wide open for a few seconds. Evidently a not so friendly police officer clocked me at 78km/hr in a 40 zone and I'm now sitting in the local lockup. Not sure where my bike is now. I guess that 'you get one call' thing is just for the movies as they didn't take my phone.
More later...

I'm hoping this is an aprilfools. but if not i hope you get minimal penalties. that would be instant loss of licence in SA i think. i guess having your bike licence is one less thing. good luck mate. no doubt your wife will grill you.
how did they transport your bike?

 

[Hyena]

heheh, ducky got wise


Y'all should know me better than that, I know doing silly things in public will not only get me in hot water but could bring us all down so I keep the high speed stuff for the bush.
I'm a responsible ebiker and strict(ish) follower of the law!