Hyperion 1420 charger Now declared officially Junk by me!

[ddk]

And either humans have forgot how to build caps that last or they are making them not to last on purpose.

I don't know how any rc charger could not be built using modern electronics building ways.

nobody has ever made a low esr high-capacity capacitor that can handle the hf/hv current pulses in a switching power circui, for long.

You must be thinking of linear power circuits?

A capacitor that has low esr characteristics, handle high impulse currents at high(er) voltages and survive in a high temperature environment is almost like an oxymoron.
5 years average capacitor life cycle in a switching supply is all anyone's managed to build so far.

 

[etriker]

I have been around tv repair a long time and they had flybacks from the start ?

High voltage flyback circuits are switch mode power supplies ?

I worked on one from 83 just a couple of months ago. The switches needed cleaning. Nice picture too.

I don't see any of the newer tvs lasting that long.

Changing out bad caps in the newer tvs is big business.

A lot of the times they are puffy and sometimes I used this to find them.

http://www.eds-inc.com/cap.html

 

[999zip999]

Tommyl so true about not having good connections my Lyen was frock up it I checked a phase wire and it pulled out cold solder. could be my fault ? And then I put the phase wires together and it run than didn't. What then notice I cut a sense wire ??? I fill Like a frock up. But know ruuning 4500 watts.
The 1420 is starting to work better with just alittle jiggle So ? Just full charged and must test again so.
Still no happy with 1420 yet. 12 months

 

[docnjoj]

Mine is headed back for a refund. I am considering one of the more expensive 14S chargers like from HiTec or Fred Marks. Sometimes you actually get what you pay for when you pay a little more. Even another Thunder for backup is less than $100. So far works fine.
otherDoc

 

[etriker]

Yet as a battery pack building and learning tool it is the most bang for the buck !

A Hyperion 1420, cell logs, Fluke meter and a Weller soldering iron get er done !

 

[docnjoj]

Yet as a battery pack building and learning tool it is the most bang for the buck !

A Hyperion 1420, cell logs, Fluke meter and a Weller soldering iron get er done !

Yep got all the rest (except my meter is an old Knight from when they made electronic kits. Just looking for a high quality 12-14S charger (not Hyperion). FMA (Fred Marks) makes good ones designed in the USA but now probably made in Korea or China. The higher priced Hitecs may be good also. And the higher priced Ichargers seem OK.
As I get older I actually care more about quality than something being a bargain. Ya can't take it with you!
otherDoc

 

[mistercrash]

+1 on connection sensitivity for these chargers, you gotta have good solid connections to get these chargers to work right. But sometimes they just will not work or will be flat out dangerous to use no matter what you do to make them work. I bought a pair of 1420i more than a year ago IIRC and I have one of them I still use. The other was exchanged for a new one and that one was again exchanged for a new one and finally THAT one was returned for a refund. So I'm just guessing that some are of good quality and others are just riddled with problems. Errors on the screen not matter what you do and false reading of the voltage of a cell or two. The charger reads that the cell is at 3.2V when it's actually at 4.3V and keeps on doing that eternal balance cycle to top up that cell. Probably why they are so cheap compared to other Hyperion products.

 

[LSBW]

Who was looking for pics inside?

 

[999zip999]

The only fix I have now is the jiggle. I plug in the charger and charge in balance mode. I first check the balance of the cells befors charging. Sometimes I get a reading I know is ( or hope ) is off and do the jiggle. Can be any set of jiggling and not just one spot. I get a reading like 3.41v and 3.29v per cell and next to each other just do the jiggle and fixed 3.33- 3.34v and start charging.
This dose not make me happy.

 

[dnmun]

can you read the labels on the top of those two rows of transistors on top of the shunt resistors? the one closest to the shunt resistor is the shunt transistor so it would help to know what it says, and if you can read the numbers on the two resistors in series right above that shunt transistor and can you tell how they are connected and does the middle connection between them go over to the "left" leg of that transistor? the single leg coming out in front is the drain or collector, like you would be taking a leak, and the left leg is the base or gate and the right leg would be the emitter or source depending if it was a mosfet or transistor.

i assume the black plug lower left connects to the ribbon cable to the display, like the other plug above?

 

[LSBW]

Sorry, these are not mine Stolen from here: http://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php/topic,17190.0/topicseen.html

 

[dnmun]

what did they say in that thread in russian?

i could tell that the higher row is some kinda gang switch of mosfets across the top that must disconnect all channels at the same time and the lower one is maybe a big pnp transistor or it could be a 431 with those resistors setting the bias on the cathode. that is how ping does it on the old v1 signalab before he went to using the mosfets on the new v2.5 BMS.

 

[docnjoj]

Well the last straw just occurred! AllE R/C has refused my request for a refund stating that the charger works perfectly! Needless to say DO NOT BUY STUFF FROM ALLER/C, SINCE YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE FOR BAD MERCHANDISE.
I'm out of caps mode now. Unless a miracle occured in the shipping box it will not work when it comes back to me.
otherDoc

Even the Chinese would allow you to return defective merchandise.

 

[999zip999]

Hay Docnjoj I talked to the guy at ALLeRC and as he said the 1420 only support 4 in. balance wires to the charger ? 4 in. I need 24 in. I will hack some 6s hyperion female to Hk 6s jst. for 15 in. and see what the balance volt reading is. The cell voltage on the balance screen floats all over the place and the eos hyperion cellmeters are going way off also. I only trust my fluke now. And guess what my 12s pack's are very close in balance when checking with the fluke. I my packs where off, but just the hyperion stuff.

 

[docnjoj]

I don't believe that! You need at least a foot length to make the charger able to sit on a surface next to the bike. That is crazy! In fact it can't be right. One of our members set up that charger with a 24" printer cable (DB25 connector I think) and ran all the wires from the charger. Oh well, I have the Thunder 1220 working fine every day.
otherDoc

 

[999zip999]

Can't sallow that I'm going with 15in. balance wire.

 

[Confusered]

can you read the labels on the top of those two rows of transistors on top of the shunt resistors? the one closest to the shunt resistor is the shunt transistor so it would help to know what it says, and if you can read the numbers on the two resistors in series right above that shunt transistor and can you tell how they are connected and does the middle connection between them go over to the "left" leg of that transistor? the single leg coming out in front is the drain or collector, like you would be taking a leak, and the left leg is the base or gate and the right leg would be the emitter or source depending if it was a mosfet or transistor.

i assume the black plug lower left connects to the ribbon cable to the display, like the other plug above?

Those are labeled "1D". So the order goes from (bottom to top):

Balance connectors -> Shunt resistors -> bleed transistors (Part no: J1Y) -> Resistor (No: 303) -> Resistor (No: 189 (Numbers vary across different columns)) -> Transistor (No: 1D) -> then I think to the PIC controller...

No, they all go to top most leg of the transistors/drain/collector.

Yes the black plug is to the User buttons.

 

[dnmun]

looking at it i could see the gate drive as that long trace running right under the top row of transistors. Q41 Q27 Q29 Q31 and they must all turned on in order to allow the balancing to work by connecting the resistor divider bridge the to the gate of the shunt transistor. so common gate turns on all 14 at the same time it appears.

i just could not see where the connection is from the emitter on that top row.

but what was your problem we needed to solve?

 

[docnjoj]

I just tried out my Hyperion with new battery main leads and new balance wires and it is charging at 5 amps seemingly fine. Since it just started I will report back when it actually finishes without ERROR MESSAGES! Power supply is Meanwell s350 set real conservatively @ 25 volts and 8 amps, where 5 come out at the charger.
otherDoc

 

[Confusered]

looking at it i could see the gate drive as that long trace running right under the top row of transistors. Q41 Q27 Q29 Q31 and they must all turned on in order to allow the balancing to work by connecting the resistor divider bridge the to the gate of the shunt transistor. so common gate turns on all 14 at the same time it appears.

i just could not see where the connection is from the emitter on that top row.

but what was your problem we needed to solve?

I'm not sure about the problem, I think you were trying to help someone and had an unanswered question, so I answered it...

 

[docnjoj]

I just tried out my Hyperion with new battery main leads and new balance wires and it is charging at 5 amps seemingly fine. Since it just started I will report back when it actually finishes without ERROR MESSAGES! Power supply is Meanwell s350 set real conservatively @ 25 volts and 8 amps, where 5 come out at the charger.
otherDoc

Well it almost did it. Unfortunately near the end of the cycle it started the European police siren telling me "balance connector error." so I looked and of course all 12 cells were fine on it's own balance screen. So I unpluged all the balance wires and repluged again and restarted it and it happily finished charging and balancing. Who needs this crap!
otherDoc

 

[ladz]

I've got one of these 1420i units too. I used to get that connection error all the time on one of my 20ah 8s1p a123 packs but after shortening and redoing the balance connections, it seems fine.
It's tough to spot loose connection problems with a typical DMM. Some (all?) DMMs made by Wavetek / Beckman have a mode where the voltage is converted to a series of audible clicks which makes a tone that varies with the input voltage. This way, small or transient variances can be detected. Loose connections end up sounding "scratchy" and are easy to spot with this technique.

 

[dnmun]

didn't the doctor put his balance leads on anderson connectors? i just shorted out a lead on a JST plug with a resistor leg and the plastic melted so much the pin is a little off in the housing. not good.

 

[docnjoj]

didn't the doctor put his balance leads on anderson connectors? i just shorted out a lead on a JST plug with a resistor leg and the plastic melted so much the pin is a little off in the housing. not good.

I think it was ypedal who used the Andersons on one side and the JST's on the other. It is a really good way to ensure good connections. Those standard JST's, even the "good ones" seem to develop connection errors over time. This in no way absolves Hyperion from making a charger way too sensitive for normal use in the field. Thunder 1220 has no such problem, at least for my A123 packs.
otherDoc

 

[sn0wchyld]

Yet as a battery pack building and learning tool it is the most bang for the buck !

A Hyperion 1420, cell logs, Fluke meter and a Weller soldering iron get er done !

Yep got all the rest (except my meter is an old Knight from when they made electronic kits. Just looking for a high quality 12-14S charger (not Hyperion). FMA (Fred Marks) makes good ones designed in the USA but now probably made in Korea or China. The higher priced Hitecs may be good also. And the higher priced Ichargers seem OK.
As I get older I actually care more about quality than something being a bargain. Ya can't take it with you!
otherDoc

Id strongly reccomend the fma stuff. Excellent support, excellent chargers. They even compensate for the length of your charge and balance wires automaticalky, for balancing and ir calculation.