I hate 1X drivetrains

[raylo32]

Just perusing some fat bikes and 29er hardtails looking for potential donors and damn if just about all of them are 1x drivetrains that have room for only a tiny 30 something chainring, set into a little pocket in the chainstay that allows no room for anything larger. That simply isn't enough chainring if one is wanting to build a mid-drive torque sensing pedelc because of cadence issues. I know, there are suitable bikes out there. It's just that the majority of new offerings are these 1x's so the choices are limited. Just venting...

 

[The Toecutter]

Just perusing some fat bikes and 29er hardtails looking for potential donors and damn if just about all of them are 1x drivetrains that have room for only a tiny 30 something chainring, set into a little pocket in the chainstay that allows no room for anything larger. That simply isn't enough chainring if one is wanting to build a mid-drive torque sensing pedelc because of cadence issues. I know, there are suitable bikes out there. It's just that the majority of new offerings are these 1x's so the choices are limited. Just venting...

Another example of planned obsolescence.

The bicycle industry did not like that you used to be able to mix and match components from mountainbikes and road bikes generally without regard to manufacturer and have your choice of speeds.

They're making component ecosystems to lock you into their own proprietary components for each specific make and model of new bike now, rendering most new bikes into disposable commodities. This is especially so with new-fangled electronic shifting, hydraulic disc brakes, and dished wheels on new bikes.

I'm sticking with all the cheap Chinesey 7-speed stuff deliberately, as there is still a wide market for that thanks to the DIY ebike scene as well as the Chinese market. There's still a few inexpensive double and triple cranksets that work well with 7-10 speed components, and you can buy 7-sped freewheels and chains all day long. You just can't get the high-end or even mid-range stuff anymore.

 

[raylo32]

Agree, toecutter. Back in the day if you knew a couple of standard ecosystems you knew just about everything about bikes. Forget about that now. Another reason I hate 1x drivetrains is that I was mostly a roadie and liked the close gear ratios, even on my MTBs. Having 2x or 3x allowed smaller cassettes with closer cogs. The 1x pie plate cassettes have huge jumps between cogs, even in 12 speed.

 

[Axelwik]

Simple fix: take a hammer to the chainstay! Joking - you can use spacers between the motor and the bottom bracket shell. The chain line might still be okay.

 

[raylo32]

Chainline and Q-factor could be challenging. Bottom line is that shopping for a donor bike is difficult because you pretty much need to see one in person and measure the clearance and chainline. Or find someone here who has the bike in question and did the same converison.

Simple fix: take a hammer to the chainstay! Joking - you can use spacers between the motor and the bottom bracket shell. The chain line might still be okay.

 

[Axelwik]

Chainline and Q-factor could be challenging. Bottom line is that shopping for a donor bike is difficult because you pretty much need to see one in person and measure the clearance and chainline. Or find someone here who has the bike in question and did the same converison.

I just put a CYC Photon on a ten year old mountain bike. Biggest chainring was 38 (2x) and with the Photon I installed a 42 (1x). Worked well without any spacers on the drive side, and Q is the same no matter what since the BB axle is a fixed length. Good range of gear ratios with the 42 and 11-36 at the rear.

 

[Chalo]

Your issues are a great reason to use an older frame. Those adapt nicely to one-by gearing if that's what you want, but without the physical limitations to only that. My latest e-bike project is technically a one-by, like most of my bikes since the early 1990s. 56t chainring and 14-38 5-speed freewheel! Plenty enough gears to pedal along with the motor or chug away without it. Those drive components will still be doing it when all y'all's 21st century stuff is recycled.

 

[raylo32]

Yeah, I have had a Photon (used to be TSDZ2) on my 1995 Canondale F1000 hardtail for about 8 months. It has the 42t chainring and that is a pretty good setup for my mostly road use... it might fit a 50t but I haven't tried it yet. Depending on how I feel I may swap the Photon over to my Lynskey GR gravel bike and that will easily take the 50t ring so I could pedal at 30+ MPH on road rides.

If I swap the Photon over I'd put a ToSeven DM-01, a BBS 630 with torque sensor (depending on how that motor shakes out), or CYC Proton if and when that comes onto the Canondale.

I just put a CYC Photon on a ten year old mountain bike. Biggest chainring was 38 (2x) and with the Photon I installed a 42 (1x). Worked well without any spacers on the drive side, and Q is the same no matter what since the BB axle is a fixed length. Good range of gear ratios with the 42 and 11-36 at the rear.

 

[raylo32]

That's exactly what I have been doing so far, using my existing old bikes.

Your issues are a great reason to use an older frame. Those adapt nicely to one-by gearing if that's what you want, but without the physical limitations to only that. My latest e-bike project is technically a one-by, like most of my bikes since the early 1990s. 56t chainring and 14-38 5-speed freewheel! Plenty enough gears to pedal along with the motor or chug away without it. Those drive components will still be doing it when all y'all's 21st century stuff is recycled.

 

[DanGT86]

As someone who rides technical rocky stuff I have to speak up a little bit in defense of the bike industry here. I don't think this is planned obsolescence. I think it's just the physics and geometry at play.

I hit my 32 tooth chainring/bashguard on stuff all the time. For useful ground clearance there is no such thing as too small. I also love bikes with very short chainstays for their playfulness and willingness to lift the front wheel.

If someone designs a 29er with the shortest possible chainstays in the era of 2.5" or wider tires there is just no way to keep the chainstay from being wide close to the bottom bracket.

I know its frustrating for us ebike guys but those frames are perfect for what they are designed for. We can't expect the bike industry to make frames specifically so guys like us can add our own DIY motors.

It would be super cool if they did.

 

[Chalo]

I know its frustrating for us ebike guys but those frames are perfect for what they are designed for.

Wanking?

We can't expect the bike industry to make frames specifically so guys like us can add our own DIY motors.

It would be super cool if they did.

It would also have net value, unlike driving a polluting truck with a toy bike in it out to where you can despoil natural places.

 

[raylo32]

Makes a little sense for high end bikes for people who are actually going to ride the seriously rocky stuff. But they are few and far between. IMO, the cheaper bikes all went this was because of the fad and because of needing fewer parts which means more profit. And I rode plenty of really rocky stuff back in the day on my ole Trek 8000 rigid bike, Canondale F1000 hardtail, and Specialized Stumpjumper, all 3x. Sure, bashed the big ring once in a while but no big deal.

As someone who rides technical rocky stuff I have to speak up a little bit in defense of the bike industry here. I don't think this is planned obsolescence. I think it's just the physics and geometry at play.

I hit my 32 tooth chainring/bashguard on stuff all the time. For useful ground clearance there is no such thing as too small. I also love bikes with very short chainstays for their playfulness and willingness to lift the front wheel.

If someone designs a 29er with the shortest possible chainstays in the era of 2.5" or wider tires there is just no way to keep the chainstay from being wide close to the bottom bracket.

I know its frustrating for us ebike guys but those frames are perfect for what they are designed for. We can't expect the bike industry to make frames specifically so guys like us can add our own DIY motors.

It would be super cool if they did.

 

[DaLanMan]

::gives Chalo a hug and a cup of coffee::

It's ok brother, I have those days too ::winks::

::wanders off whistling::

Ok, just for those feeling confusion. I was diagnosed with Covid 30 odd hours ago and while running a fever kind of sucks, when you get to the full "slightly confused and a bit dizzy" stage, it is a lot like being stoned I am told...

--L

 

[raylo32]

Make lots of coffee and fire up Netflix or whatever and relax. I had covid about a year ago and it wasn't pleasant, but no big deal, probably because I was vaxxed up. Still needed some days at home.

::gives Chalo a hug and a cup of coffee::

It's ok brother, I have those days too ::winks::

::wanders off whistling::

Ok, just for those feeling confusion. I was diagnosed with Covid 30 odd hours ago and while running a fever kind of sucks, when you get to the full "slightly confused and a bit dizzy" stage, it is a lot like being stoned I am told...

--L

 

[DaLanMan]

Yeah, my planned trip to take the boy out to test his new dad-built battery pack (I took the stock POS from Jetson and built out a 30Ah unit bms *might* make me regret that, but another story) Instead yesterday I slept like 20 hours. Which for me is weird, I am usually lucky to get in 6 in a day.
Today I am trying to figure out what I was planning on doing with 3 left doorhandle replacements for my car. I am fairly certain that I only have 1 door on that side that needs repairs. I mean it is nice to have multiple spares... but really? what idiot ordered 3 pieces left driver doorhandle bit and none for the right door (Blinks) ok, maybe I am just fever high...

 

[DanGT86]

It would also have net value, unlike driving a polluting truck with a toy bike in it out to where you can despoil natural places.

If it makes you feel better I do have a bike rack on my Nissan Leaf that I use to get to the places I despoil.

 

[DaLanMan]

if you put a sail on that, does it become a leaf on the wind?

 

[DanGT86]

if you put a sail on that, does it become a leaf on the wind?

Actually the bike is a bit of a sail. I lose 10% of my range on the highway from the air disruption of the bike.

 

[amberwolf]

if you put a sail on that, does it become a leaf on the wind?

You don't want to be a leaf on the w--- .....oof
drip
drip
drip

 

[DaLanMan]

::cheers:: someone got it... I mean besides ...

Know how the reavers clean their spears?

Run em through the Wash.

Ok, i am done.

 

[pwd]

Back to the original post.... I agree that it makes it tough to fit a bigger chainring etc.. on the bike. This makes it even more difficult for the already chunky BBSHD and reduction girth. I had fitted a BBSHD to a Giant Yukon but the chainline wasn't the best, mostly because of the frame. That is why I like a modular mid-drive (external reduction) better but that is a rant for a different thread.

 

[FuzzyWuzzy]

I've spent hours looking for an ISCG 05 front derailleur adapter. You'd think it exists. 1X is dumb, especially when DI2 is just so good.

 

[raylo32]

Even the 2x mech groups work great these days. At least the higher end stuff.

I've spent hours looking for an ISCG 05 front derailleur adapter. You'd think it exists. 1X is dumb, especially when DI2 is just so good.

 

[Chalo]

1X is dumb, especially when DI2 is just so good.

A thousand dollar solution to a fifty dollar problem is "good"?

 

[raylo32]

Here we go... the ultimate retro grouch wakes up from hibernation to stomp around and cause trouble. Chalo delights in giving us grief for spending our $ on things we like. I don't have any electronic shifting but know plenty who do and like it. It's their $. Next he'll be coming for our STI mech shifters. LOL.