I received a 1500 dollar grant to build an ebike. Advice re

[BLUESTREAK]

I am with RON on the trike,if you have a use for atrike its the best thing you can find and the MERIDIAN has the best style that I have seen. Now I love trikes so I guess I am partial toward them. I have 2 MERIDIANS, 1 has a 9c 6x10 at 60volts and good for 25mph and 1 with a x5306 at 72volts and 30mph and both climb really good, Now I only use the fast speeds when I need to ride in the street but most of my time I am on the sidewalk at about 12-15mph. Thay are not for everyone but for a large part of the population its perfect especially if you ride using good common sense and not try to do tricks or show off your riding skills, thats left to the young and tough skin lad's. I will be 67 next month and I ride my trike almost everday for the fun of it, also where I live here in NORTH TAMPA it has some small hills along the river. Now for what dogman said about the wheel bending he's right. The first thing you need to do is get good rims for the rear and get better spokes as well,I collapsed my rear rims the first thing trying to make a sharp turn going too fast with a lot of lead acid in the rear. But I slowly learned, I streached the rear out on 1 trike about 12in and lowered the saddle tractor typ seat back and down to about 26in from the ground turned the stem around and used a highrise handelbar to reach back very comfortable in the seat and used the backs of some old wicker chairs to make backrests out of. I made the trike that is streached out 12in into a rear suspension and this made all the differance in the world (I will add this to the other trike later on). I know you guys want pictures and thay will come pretty soon I promise. I just have too many projects to work on at any one time, this way I seem to never completely finish everthing. Also I have a VECTRIX electric scooter that I am making into a TRIKE. Anyway thanks for listening COOPER.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah. the 6x10 front hub,( not for sale anymore) is just about ideal for the meridian trike. I got two 6x10's when avaliable, and wish now I'd gotten 4-5.

Front hub vs rear begins with your forks. If you have good solid steel ones, fronties have advantages. Primarily allowing a rear carried battery to balance out.

But most bikes do better, with the motor in the rear and the battery in the frame up front.

 

[Uncle Ron]

Well stated Uncle Ron, and you did a great job of showing the advantageous side of choosing a trike.
I agree with everything that you wrote there, and I think the strongest point is stability on ice, which is hell to ride on for a bicycle, and if I lived in an icy area, I would likely be on 3 wheels as well (but tadpole).

I also enjoyed your videos and you builds. (it would be hard not to! you did such a nice job. )

Physics,

Blimey, I'm gonna have a real job being as gracious as you are. (g)

 

[Uncle Ron]

The Schwinn meridian is a good bargain on a trike, but fwiw, the rear wheels are crap. After 3 years use, even the ones at work that never ran more than 10 mph are bent to hell, despite many retruings. We do have speed bumps there at work though. So put 100 pounds in the basket, and rims get bent. A worksman trike, at three times the cost, has much stouter wheels. So maybe figure on needing to relace the rims on a meridian at some time.

Dogman,

"The wheels are crap." Truer words were never spoken, the Achilles Heel of the Meridian. So have you replaced the rims on one and were you able to get at least slightly heavier spokes on the hubs?

BTW, Dogman, You are either e-bike God or have an army of copywriters in your employ. I like to write but it is exquisite work that takes me lots of time to craft and fix. Lordy, I'd be dead before I could even read all of your nearly 9k posts here. When do you find time to ride. (g)

 

[dogman dan]

I have a trashed lower back, and spend a lot of time in bed, typing on ES. I have two speeds, full throttle and off. So my typical workday is 4 hours full throttle, then the bed. On a good day a few hours in the afternoon I'll get up and build bikes or ride.

I talk waaaaay too much.

 

[Uncle Ron]

I have a trashed lower back, and spend a lot of time in bed, typing on ES. I have two speeds, full throttle and off. So my typical workday is 4 hours full throttle, then the bed. On a good day a few hours in the afternoon I'll get up and build bikes or ride.]

That's a bitch, but you sure seem to make the best use of what fate has gifted you with.

I talk waaaaay too much.

LOL, not this time. Back to my question. Have you replaced the rims on a meridian (with double wall?) and were you able to use larger spokes on the stock hubs?

 

[Uncle Ron]

Lots of good advice.

I think I'm pretty convinced that I'm going to go with a bike instead of trike, and one of the reasons is the hills.

Mike,

I've got your number, dude. Try and convince yourself of the above when the real reason is that if you do an e-bike rather than an e-trike, wifey will be stuck with doing the groceries with the golf cart. (g)

Kidding aside, since this build will not stay with you beyond 6 months or so and is liable to be used by lots of different folks during and after your possession, you're better off with an e-bike for safety reason. As I've said several times around these parts, some folks have trouble taking to an e-trike from the git-go, and will be all over the lot until their body discovers that some bike balance rules don't apply. Anyone who can ride a 2 wheeler can ride an e-bike immediately.

 

[slimbeau]

e-bike kit rear on your bike
i,ve beat mine hard - plug and play
buy a trailer later if you need it

 

[wheelbender6]

Ditto. Two wheelers are easier to haul and store. The bike is easer to take down the side walk (than a trike) if your route includes high speed vehicle traffic and narrow roads.

 

[dogman dan]

I have some rims for the really bent wheels, but haven't laced them, or aquired new spokes. For now the 3rd meridian is just another frame in the garage.

 

[Uncle Ron]

I have some rims for the really bent wheels, but haven't laced them, or aquired new spokes. For now the 3rd meridian is just another frame in the garage.

Dogman,

Thanks! For now my rims and spokes are OK, but when you get around to the fix, let us know about the spoke situation (increasing diameter and strength.) I had some broken spokes on one wheel and when I replaced them I seem to remember that it looked like I might be able to go up (down in #) at least one spoke size, but I could be fooling myself.

 

[spinningmagnets]

A front wheel friction-drive can be made to easily swap between a 3-season bicycle, and the 3-wheeled "Ice-Master 3000"

Zibby and Snath both had a "pop-off" FWD RC-friction-drive. Just a thought...

 

[Uncle Ron]

A front wheel friction-drive can be made to easily swap between a 3-season bicycle, and the 3-wheeled "Ice-Master 3000"

Zibby and Snath both had a "pop-off" FWD RC-friction-drive. Just a thought...

spinningmagnets,

Thanks! Googling "Ice-Master 3000" got me a very nice kitchen blender, but I doubt that's what you meant. I didn't have the heart to try "Zibby and Snath."

I'm guessing you're talking about some sort of tracked front wheel drive replacement. My Winter needs are for getting groceries, going to the library, visiting a friend. If there's enough snow on the streets to hide the pot holes, I wait a day or two. However you might want to include a link for those interested in bike fun in the snow.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Loved your video, Ron. I just meant in regards to the discussion about a bicycle vs a trike, I was implying that it wouldn't be too expensive to get a trike now for the wet and icy weather...then in the spring you could acquire a bicycle as a second vehicle for those times you want to ride "narrow style".

As for Zibby and Snath...this past year there has been a dozen or so friction-drives developed. Each with its own peculiar benefit and drawback. Also this past year, there have been MANY projects developed with the small RC motors and LiPo batteries. Zib and Snath are the two projects that are both friction-drive and RC, with the added feature of being mounted on the front tire, and specifically being easily removable (for storage or security?), and/or swappable to another bike. Here's the link and pics:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14403

 

[MikeFairbanks]

The problem with friction drive is that when you go through a puddle, the friction not longer works, and when it does work, it grinds your tire.

 

[Uncle Ron]

I just meant in regards to the discussion about a bicycle vs a trike, I was implying that it wouldn't be too expensive to get a trike now for the wet and icy weather...then in the spring you could acquire a bicycle as a second vehicle for those times you want to ride "narrow style".

I'd love to have both but don't have the resources just now. Most of the time that I'm e-biking on the trike, I'm doing it for a reason and not simply for fun and most of those reasons involve moderate to heavier hauling. Still it would be awfully nice to have a 2 wheeler for fun.

As for Zibby and Snath...this past year there has been a dozen or so friction-drives developed. Each with its own peculiar benefit and drawback. Also this past year, there have been MANY projects developed with the small RC motors and LiPo batteries. Zib and Snath are the two projects that are both friction-drive and RC, with the added feature of being mounted on the front tire, and specifically being easily removable (for storage or security?), and/or swappable to another bike. Here's the link and pics:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14403

Thanks for the heads up. Is the main reason for these friction drives to be able to remove them almost completely, quickly? Otherwise it seems to me on the surface, that it's a lot of rigamaroll for little or slightly negative advantage? Or is because "I want to and can have fun doing it?" (g) Please don't anyone feel offended. I'm just trying to understand the whys and wherefores. Are these designed so that they can operate one way for torque and another for speed?

 

[Uncle Ron]

The problem with friction drive is that when you go through a puddle, the friction not longer works, and when it does work, it grinds your tire.

Mike,

I don't have an answer for this just an observation. On my regular bike with steel rims, the rim brakes are next to worthless in the wet. On my e-trike with aluminum rims, the falloff in stopping power in the wet is very moderate. If the friction drive has an aluminum friction cog, I'd guess that it still works quite well in the wet. If anyone knows the physics behind this, it'd be interesting to know?

 

[MikeFairbanks]

Hey, man, there's still a part of me thinking "tricycle".

But I wonder if I'd blow a motor going up hill.

Check out this bad boy:

http://www.industrialbicycles.com/Worker_%20Trike.htm

 

[Uncle Ron]

But I wonder if I'd blow a motor going up hill.

Why? The trike would be only 25-35lbs more. Besides these motors don't blow out in a proper system, they shut down if pushed too hard, but with the right system a hill isn't going to do that. Maybe a mountain? You might lose a few mph at the top of the hill with a trike rather than a bike, but the difference isn't going to be that dramatic.

http://www.industrialbicycles.com/Worker_%20Trike.htm

Yeah, I've seen all the standard upright trike suspects. If I needed a real hauler, I'd go with Worksman for a 500 lb. max load. There are others, but this one's an interesting semi-recumbant, but out of your budget.

http://worksmancycles.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/indtrikes.html

 

[spinningmagnets]

I collect all the info I can about friction-drives, as I am developing one for myself. They are not the ultimate solution for everyone, or even for 'most' E-bikes, but they do have some benefits.

There is still no definitive guide, but I am noticing trends in the various performance reports. Very low amp-draw on acceleration and cruise.

If you only use electric power for hills, you can "gear it" for low speed, which will help torque. A 250-kV motor at 6S (22V-24V) on a one-inch roller 'should' do about 13-MPH, I think that configuration will do well on hills with no heat issues (or...a fully-loaded cargo-bike?). Also, it should be very light for the entire system (for when you are only pedaling).

A one-inch diameter roller on a 26" wheel "should" have the same performance as a one-inch pulley turning a 26" pulley. a 26:1 reduction is pretty big, and the RC motors have a very wide RPM band. Hub motors have better efficiency, heat concerns, and hill-climbing torque on smaller wheels (24", 20", etc), and friction-drives have better performance on fat tires and bigger wheels (26"?), and bigger wheels have the benefit of doing well going over unavoidable potholes (we have lots of those here).

I fully expect to experience occasional slippage in the wet and more rapid tire wear, but for my particular situation, I feel it works for me. My comparison kit would be about $850 (minus the bike). A 9C hubmotor (many successful builds with this, and also the Aotema), plus a large Ping battery. Though the larger battery does provide better range, the reason for a large battery is to have an adequate C-rate to prevent voltage-sag, causing LVC tripping.

Jeremy Harris has had good success weather-proofing the insides of RC-motors (for his RC boats), though I'm sure his methods would also apply to hub-motors.

Granpa Chas over at VisforVoltage used a 24V TNC motor at 36V, and ran it through a 3-speed hub as a jackshaft/transmission (on a cargo-trike). Good hill-climbing, low heat, good range on a smallish battery

 

[spinningmagnets]

If you want a very reliable system that is pretty much plug-and-play in order to gather data to compare against a car commute; From reading, I recommend the 9C direct-drive hub-motor (not a geared hub, non-hub, or friction-drive). It has a high pole-count and large diameter, so its as efficient as any hub could be, thats readily available. Plus the direct-drive hubs are dead simple and very reliable.

 

[auraslip]

You can get a 9c kit from DRASP in the for sale section for $250 =) http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=14731

It's been a hell of a deal for me. I've put 3000 miles on mine already!