iCharger 208B 350W 8s Balance/Charger power supply

[Hardcarve1]

Does the iCharger P350 AC Adapter 100~240V 23A 350W power supply http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9047&Product_Name=iCharger_P350_AC_Adapter_100~240V_23A_350W
give the iCharger 208B 350W http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9005&Product_Name=iCharger_208B_350W_8s_Balance/Charger#
the full 350w charge capability. In the manual it says it needs 18v at 20amp.
I have found a power supply rated at 24v at 15 amp, would this give the full charge 350w charge.
I want to charge my A123's as fast as posible.

Thanks

 

[monster]

well if the manual says 20a then 15a might be only 262w

 

[liveforphysics]

http://cgi.ebay.com/D-C-POWER-SUPPLY-MODULAR-24-VDC-25AMPS-OUTPUT_W0QQitemZ260292051822QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3c9a9d836e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

You're welcome

-Luke

 

[Fishmasterdan]

I went to my local PC recycle store and purchased (3) 250 watt power supplies for 10 bucks each. I wired the 5 volt outputs in series and ended up with a 15 volt output (I have pulled 30 amps out of it so far during testing).

You could do 4 power supplies and make 20v and have a beast of a power supply.

If you are curious I could snap some pictures for you.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Spec.
Input voltage range: 4.5 – 32.0VDC
Charge current range: 0.05 – 20.0A
Discharge current range: 0.05 – 20.0A
Maximum charge power capacity: 350W @ input voltage > 18V
Maximum discharge power capacity: 30W
Maximum extern discharge power capacity: 600W @ 30V/20A

No idea what the 30W max discharge means.

I think to get 600W output you need a 30V PS. To maximize the output you need a 32V PS.

 

[BatteryMooch]

No idea what the 30W max discharge means.

The unit will only discharge up to a 30W level with its internal load. IMHO, you shouldn't exceed 20W...it gets hot. To go higher than that you need to connect an external load.

 

[liveforphysics]

Hi,

Spec.
Input voltage range: 4.5 – 32.0VDC
Charge current range: 0.05 – 20.0A
Discharge current range: 0.05 – 20.0A
Maximum charge power capacity: 350W @ input voltage > 18V
Maximum discharge power capacity: 30W
Maximum extern discharge power capacity: 600W @ 30V/20A

No idea what the 30W max discharge means.

I think to get 600W output you need a 30V PS. To maximize the output you need a 32V PS.

Mitch- I get maximum output at 18v. Any higher doesn't increase the output. However, it would sure be nice if it did, because that would enable lower amp higher voltage supplies.

To discharge, you actaully don't require a power supply at all. It runs on the voltage source it's dischargeing. You connect a loadbank resistance if you wish to discharge at 600w. The resistance of the loadbank can actaully very non-liniar and variable, and it uses it's switching voltage current supplies to always keep things constant during discharge. Very slick! That means just a cheap bundle of 500w halogen work light bulbs is all the load bank you need to dissapate that 600w as IR radiated energy.

No idea what the 30W max discharge means.

The unit will only discharge up to a 30W level with its internal load. IMHO, you shouldn't exceed 20W...it gets hot. To go higher than that you need to connect an external load.

CamLight- When you try it out, you will disagree. It has a powerful fan inside it, and it effectively discharged 30w while only running the fan about 20% of the time. It gets warm, but never too hot, and it's good that it gets warm, since it needs a delta-T to be transfering the energy to the air moving through itself. I think it could do 60w or more but they de-rated the figure to ensure no problems for the people who install them in air-flow limited areas.

It will calculate Ri and do neat capacity measurements and you can even set it to graph/record the temp of the cell along with the testing. You can also set it to cycle a pack and record the data from each cycle, so you can watch a pack improve when you break it in.

No reason to be critical of the little guy, he is cheap, and a pretty slick value IMO.

 

[BatteryMooch]

CamLight- When you try it out, you will disagree. It has a powerful fan inside it, and it effectively discharged 30w while only running the fan about 20% of the time. It gets warm, but never too hot, and it's good that it gets warm, since it needs a delta-T to be transfering the energy to the air moving through itself. I think it could do 60w or more but they de-rated the figure to ensure no problems for the people who install them in air-flow limited areas.

It will calculate Ri and do neat capacity measurements and you can even set it to graph/record the temp of the cell along with the testing. You can also set it to cycle a pack and record the data from each cycle, so you can watch a pack improve when you break it in.

No reason to be critical of the little guy, he is cheap, and a pretty slick value IMO.

Critical? That wasn't my intention at all. I own an iCharger 1010B and think it's an incredible deal!

Just pointing out some of my own experiences. My 1010B, and several other iChargers I've heard about, have all run uncomfortably hot IMHO at levels above 60%-70% of their internal discharge rating. The outside temperature is much. MUCH lower than the junction temperature of the devices acting as the load and I like to see them run cooler than they are. But, I tend to talk about other devices as if I was designing them. I should have made that clear in my post.

I highly recommend iChargers to anyone considering a good value for the dollar. i just felt that the units I've seen, and heard about from other owners, were running hot when discharging at their rating. I guess there's no way to know without measuring the case temepratures of the discharge devices but it would be great to hear that the 208B ran cooler than earlier iChargers. Heck, I need another charger and the 208B would be a nice addition to the closet-o-toys.

 

[liveforphysics]

I'm sorry Camlight, I mis-interpreted the tone of your post. Sorry!


The 10b and 20b both run 10 indivdual little switching power supplies. The cool thing is the 20b runs 10 indivdual power supplies that are each rated for 2x the current.

I'm glad you like your 10b. I have 4 of them, and I love them all.

The 20b is like taking a charger that was all ready extremely good, and something that I had no complaints about, and doubleing it's output. Tough not to like that

 

[BatteryMooch]

LOL, I was actually going to post again that I thought you had a good point, and that I was being a bit critical. Especially since I hadn't really talked about why I was saying what I was saying.

Good news about the increased current handling of the 20b!

 

[Auhydride]

This charger looks excellent, are there any shops that have it in stock? Hobbycity shows -6

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Luke,

Hi,

Spec.
Input voltage range: 4.5 – 32.0VDC
Charge current range: 0.05 – 20.0A
Discharge current range: 0.05 – 20.0A
Maximum charge power capacity: 350W @ input voltage > 18V
Maximum discharge power capacity: 30W
Maximum extern discharge power capacity: 600W @ 30V/20A

No idea what the 30W max discharge means.

I think to get 600W output you need a 30V PS. To maximize the output you need a 32V PS.

Mitch- I get maximum output at 18v. Any higher doesn't increase the output. However, it would sure be nice if it did, because that would enable lower amp higher voltage supplies.

Then what does the "Maximum extern discharge power capacity: 600W @ 30V/20A" mean?

The reasons I ask are:
The Cellpro 10 can accept 12v to 15.7v. It draws 20a regardless so to get the highest charge rate requires a 15.7v power supply.

You posted that your 1010b has the highest charge rate at a higher voltage.

So I assumed that many or most RC chargers have a constant amp draw with the wattage varying with input voltage. That would mean that the line in bold in the quote above means that the 208b would draw 20a at 4.5 – 30.0VDC which would be 600W at 30v. That would be almost 20a for 8s lipo!

I'm not saying you are incorrect. I'm trying to understand how this works and if the 208b can charge 8s lipo at or close to 20a.

 

[dscline]

I went to my local PC recycle store and purchased (3) 250 watt power supplies for 10 bucks each. I wired the 5 volt outputs in series and ended up with a 15 volt output (I have pulled 30 amps out of it so far during testing).

I am planning on getting a 208b, and was also planning on powering it with PC power supplies, since I have spares/leftovers sitting around. But I'm curious... why did you use the 5v outputs? The 12v outputs typically have much more power. I just wasn't sure if it was OK to series them. I even wondered about putting two 12v rails of a dual-rail power supply in series to get 24v out of one PS.

 

[liveforphysics]

30w max discharge means that the charger itself when set to be discharging a cell, for capacity measuring purposes, or to cycle or break-in a pack, it can discharge the pack at a peak of 30w.

If you connect an external load (like bundles of 500w halogen light bulbs), then the charger is able to discharge a pack at 600w, because the energy is being dissipated externally to the charger, so the charger doesn't overheat.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Luke,

Hi,

Spec.
Input voltage range: 4.5 – 32.0VDC
Charge current range: 0.05 – 20.0A
Discharge current range: 0.05 – 20.0A
Maximum charge power capacity: 350W @ input voltage > 18V
Maximum discharge power capacity: 30W
Maximum extern discharge power capacity: 600W @ 30V/20A

I think to get 600W output you need a 30V PS. To maximize the output you need a 32V PS.

Mitch - I get maximum output at 18v. Any higher doesn't increase the output. However, it would sure be nice if it did, because that would enable lower amp higher voltage supplies.

The 20b is like taking a charger that was all ready extremely good, and something that I had no complaints about, and doubling it's output. Tough not to like that

I'm probably missing something but if the max input is 18v/350W (about 20 amps), for 8s LiPo, that works out to about a 10.7A charge rate. Your 1010b does 10s at about 8.5A and should do 8s at about 10.5A. So I don't understand how is output of the 208b doubled if the wattage doesn't go up above 350W at higher voltages?

 

[liveforphysics]

I know the spec sheet lists 20amps max draw, which it may be off a 12v supply, but it will draw about 28amps at 18v

The 20b will pull about 28amps at 18v. This would be 504w input power. I don't know why the spec sheet is so conservative.

It's just a 10b that uses 10 independent little switching power supplies each rated for twice the current of the 10b supplies. Other than that, it's like it's identical. If you aren't looking to charge faster, go with a 10b. Either way, you are getting an absolutely fantastic charger.

Best Wishes,
-Luke

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Luke,

Spec.
Input voltage range: 4.5 – 32.0VDC

Mitch- I get maximum output at 18v. Any higher doesn't increase the output. However, it would sure be nice if it did, because that would enable lower amp higher voltage supplies.

I know the spec sheet lists 20amps max draw, which it may be off a 12v supply, but it will draw about 28amps at 18v

The 20b will pull about 28amps at 18v. This would be 504w input power. I don't know why the spec sheet is so conservative.

Best Wishes,
-Luke

Unless I'm missing something (please let me know) it either has to:
1. Limit the amp draw at higher voltages (which would enable "lower amp higher voltage supplies").
2. Increase the input power which should increase the charge rate.

The fact that it can pull 28A at 18V suggests (to me at least) that it might be able to pull 20A at 32v which would be pretty close to 20A charging for 8s.

It has a special setup menu in it. You set where you want the LVC and HVC, and what rate you wish to charge and discharge, and how many cycles you want it to do. Then you can set it to either balance continously, or start balancing only when the first cell reaches HVC. I personally like it to balance continously. Everything can be dialed-in just how you want it to be

So (for example) if you want to maximize cell life you could set it to charge Lipo to 4.1 or 4.0 or A123 to 3.6?

 

[liveforphysics]

I've never tried it at 32v input, so your guess is as good as mine there.

As far as setting the HVC and LVC, you have complete range on where you want to set it to charge. If you only want to charge the packs up to 4.1v, no problem. I have mine set to charge to 4.12v. I just picked that number because on a LiPoly lifecycle chart, it was the charge point that indicated a life cycle increase of 10x compared with charging to 4.25v.

Likewise, with LiFePO4, you have complete charging control as well. You can make it set the max charge point to be anywhere you want, and with 1/100th volt resolution.

You should just get one of these things Mitch. If you are disappointed by it, I will paypal you the price of it, and you can mail it to me. I can always use another one of these bad ass chargers.

 

[Fishmasterdan]

I went to my local PC recycle store and purchased (3) 250 watt power supplies for 10 bucks each. I wired the 5 volt outputs in series and ended up with a 15 volt output (I have pulled 30 amps out of it so far during testing).

I am planning on getting a 208b, and was also planning on powering it with PC power supplies, since I have spares/leftovers sitting around. But I'm curious... why did you use the 5v outputs? The 12v outputs typically have much more power. I just wasn't sure if it was OK to series them. I even wondered about putting two 12v rails of a dual-rail power supply in series to get 24v out of one PS.

Sorry for the late reply. I forgot about this thread.

The reason is to get the voltage up so the charger will get up to full power. Most good chargers will limit there output based on input voltage.

Also I have 2 other chargers I plug into the 12v inputs.

So far I have pushed the (3) power supplies pretty hard. 1010b 7s 10amps on the 15v input (that would be roughly 27 amps) and an astro 109 pushing a 5s pack at 5 amps (roughly 8 amps) and it held up just fine.

I was having troubles getting everything to work together. Through trail an error I found out you need to float 2 power supplies and us the common off of 1 case. I thought about parallel 12v but I wasnt sure of what size diode I needed to keep the PS from fighting each other.

I will get some pics if you are intrested.
Dan

 

[dscline]

I was having troubles getting everything to work together. Through trail an error I found out you need to float 2 power supplies and us the common off of 1 case. I thought about parallel 12v but I wasnt sure of what size diode I needed to keep the PS from fighting each other.

But wouldn't the same thing work with the 12v rails (in series) as you've done with the 5v rails? I assume you could only use two supplies in that case to keep from exceeding the max 32v input. But most of the supplies I have have quite a bit more power on the 12v rails than the 5v rails, so it seems like you'd still have more power available to the charger, even though you'd be using one fewer supplies (which would be cleaner to me). Maybe I'm just missing something. :?

 

[Fishmasterdan]

In theory that sounds good. Give it a try and see what happens, and let us know. I am no means an electronic's expert.

For me my target voltage was closer to 15v than 32v I have the 1010b not the 208b.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

But wouldn't the same thing work with the 12v rails (in series) as you've done with the 5v rails? I assume you could only use two supplies in that case to keep from exceeding the max 32v input. But most of the supplies I have have quite a bit more power on the 12v rails than the 5v rails, so it seems like you'd still have more power available to the charger, even though you'd be using one fewer supplies (which would be cleaner to me). Maybe I'm just missing something. :?

I think he was using them with chargers limited to about 15v input.

I was having troubles getting everything to work together. Through trail an error I found out you need to float 2 power supplies and us the common off of 1 case.

Using multiple cheap or free PC power supplies is a great idea! Would you mind a more detailed explanation for the electronically challenged?

I will get some pics if you are interested.
Dan

If its not too much trouble.

 

[dscline]

For me my target voltage was closer to 15v than 32v I have the 1010b not the 208b.

Oh, my bad, I assumed you had the 208b.

I was having troubles getting everything to work together. Through trail an error I found out you need to float 2 power supplies and us the common off of 1 case.

How did you float the other two? Did you open up the power supplies and untie the "common" from earth ground, or did you just idolate ground earth from the other two supplies (like with a cheater plug)? I also wonder if you had a power supply where the rated amperage for the 5v and 12v rails was similar, if it would be practical to wire the 5v and 12v in series to get 17v out of one supply? I assume that would work if you untied their common?

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Dan,

For me my target voltage was closer to 15v than 32v I have the 1010b not the 208b.

Spec.
Input voltage range : 10.0¨C18.0V DC

Since the 1010b supports up to 18v why don't you connect the 12v output of one PS serially with the 5v of a second?

That combo should give you more power and less complexity.

 

[Fishmasterdan]

Hi Dan,

For me my target voltage was closer to 15v than 32v I have the 1010b not the 208b.

Spec.
Input voltage range : 10.0¨C18.0V DC

Since the 1010b supports up to 18v why don't you connect the 12v output of one PS serially with the 5v of a second?

That combo should give you more power and less complexity.

I suppose I could of went several ways but I wanted to use the 12v stuff for my 3 other chargers.

I have a few pictures I will post up in the next post.....

For me my target voltage was closer to 15v than 32v I have the 1010b not the 208b.

Oh, my bad, I assumed you had the 208b.

I was having troubles getting everything to work together. Through trail an error I found out you need to float 2 power supplies and us the common off of 1 case.

How did you float the other two? Did you open up the power supplies and untie the "common" from earth ground, or did you just idolate ground earth from the other two supplies (like with a cheater plug)? I also wonder if you had a power supply where the rated amperage for the 5v and 12v rails was similar, if it would be practical to wire the 5v and 12v in series to get 17v out of one supply? I assume that would work if you untied their common?

I took them out of the case. To float the output side (12v 5v 3.3v) so there was no refernece to earth ground.
I dont think you can tie the 5v and 12v together due to there being a common to both or them but I cannot say for sure.

I mostly did it trial and error. I am an electrician (not an electronics expert) so I had a little knowledge going into the project.