Idea for custom buggy

[Rcblack]

First off please forgive me for bringing this thread in this room. I'm currently building a custom mini electric on-road vehicle. One idea that I have is to use plane/heli transmitter and receiver with (4)22s 400a plane/heli ESCs and (4)25kw brushless outrunners one for each wheel and geared down for my propulsion system. If I stay within the amp capabilities of the ESCs will it work. Furthermore this build is not for bashing, off road, drifting, and high speeds. I know that there are electronics and equipment on the market for what I'm trying to do and those avenues will be my next option, but in general will it work. Thanks for replies.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

It's difficult to answer as we have no idea what motors and ESC you're talking about.
In theory it might work, but in practice I suppose you will have to try and see for yourself.

The problem I can see is that RC ESCs are not really designed for continuous high loads, and also not really designed for long term durability in harsh environments as well. They are usually small which mean they don't have much thermal mass to absorb high power peaks for too long.
Some, like speedboat ESCs, can be watercooled. I've always been curious how they'd perform but never seen anyone doing a build using them.

It's possible that they might work fine, but that will mostly depend on the load.
In my opinion it worth the try only if you already have the hardware sitting down doing nothing. If you have to purchase stuff then I suggest changing plans and going for more rugged, reputable hardware that is designed for this application.

 

[Rcblack]

It's difficult to answer as we have no idea what motors and ESC you're talking about.
In theory it might work, but in practice I suppose you will have to try and see for yourself.

The problem I can see is that RC ESCs are not really designed for continuous high loads, and also not really designed for long term durability in harsh environments as well. They are usually small which mean they don't have much thermal mass to absorb high power peaks for too long.
Some, like speedboat ESCs, can be watercooled. I've always been curious how they'd perform but never seen anyone doing a build using them.

It's possible that they might work fine, but that will mostly depend on the load.
In my opinion it worth the try only if you already have the hardware sitting down doing nothing. If you have to purchase stuff then I suggest changing plans and going for more rugged, reputable hardware that is designed for this application.

Thanks for the reply, but I found 3 companies that's willing to customize my motors and ESCs. The RC plane ESCs and Motors was just an idea I was pondering. Thanks again

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

Thanks for the reply, but I found 3 companies that's willing to customize my motors and ESCs. The RC plane ESCs and Motors was just an idea I was pondering. Thanks again

Great news,
So what is the final hardware configuration you decided to go for?

Don't hesitate to share pictures and to show us the build here, that would be very cool to follow.

 

[Rcblack]

Great news,
So what is the final hardware configuration you decided to go for?

Don't hesitate to share pictures and to show us the build here, that would be very cool to follow.

I'm in the early stages of building the frame as of now, but I found a company called Freerchobby to build my motors (2)120v 50kw 80Kv brushless outrunners, and Alien power systems are building my speed Controllers (2) 28s 500a car ESCs. 100kw is a lot of power for a micro EV. Will have a few pics in a few weeks or so.

 

[Hillhater]

FYI,.. prior testing of high power RC ESCs has invariably resulted in brief, smokey and dissapointing ending !
Try a search on Alien ESC tests….. some long and frustrating threads !
like this…

Fliermodel ESC 22S 500A 25kW - Photos and Test Results

' I bought this new ESC from Fliermodel http://www.fliermodel.com/en/prc-show.asp?id=694 Mass = 1.52kg (as shown in photos below) L x W x H: 7.8" x 4.3" x 2.0" Many of you will likely want to reply that this thing is crap and will not withstand much power. And that might be so. However...

endless-sphere.com

…. try before you buy ..

 

[Rcblack]

FYI,.. prior testing of high power RC ESCs has invariably resulted in brief, smokey and dissapointing ending !
Try a search on Alien ESC tests….. some long and frustrating threads !
like this…

Fliermodel ESC 22S 500A 25kW - Photos and Test Results

' I bought this new ESC from Fliermodel http://www.fliermodel.com/en/prc-show.asp?id=694 Mass = 1.52kg (as shown in photos below) L x W x H: 7.8" x 4.3" x 2.0" Many of you will likely want to reply that this thing is crap and will not withstand much power. And that might be so. However...

endless-sphere.com

…. try before you buy ..

They have not started building the ESCs yet, I couldn't find test but read a few unsettling reviews about arming and programming APS ESCs

 

[CharlySierraGolf]

You can use kelly controllers. They are good and cheap enough.
Trampaboards ESC are good to. They have high power rated controllers for a fair price and with the VESC tools you can tune it for your application.
I have a freerchobby motor. Dont believe much on their power ratings. They are good for the price but the ratings are very overestimated.

 

[thebes]

First off please forgive me for bringing this thread in this room. I'm currently building a custom mini electric on-road vehicle. One idea that I have is to use plane/heli transmitter and receiver with (4)22s 400a plane/heli ESCs and (4)25kw brushless outrunners one for each wheel and geared down for my propulsion system. If I stay within the amp capabilities of the ESCs will it work. Furthermore this build is not for bashing, off road, drifting, and high speeds. I know that there are electronics and equipment on the market for what I'm trying to do and those avenues will be my next option, but in general will it work. Thanks for replies.

Out of curiosity why not go with more conventional motors more intended for these types of use cases? Something like the motenergy me1616 and paired with, as was mentioned by another user, one of the higher voltage kellys, or perhaps a cl1400 if you want something based on vesc.

 

[Rcblack]

I found a solution. I like being different, montenergy, Kelly and Curtis I've considered they are good companies. I will be using VESC based controllers I just have to wait before I can order the Trampa STR500 have not been released yet and I'm getting 2 of them. I have read many good reviews about Trampa boards more good than bad and from what I've read they are very reliable. Thanks everyone for suggestions and responding.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

Sounds like a very high cost just for the sake of being different.
For half the prince you could get a Fardriver 841800, which is a whole lot more powerful (up to 1300A battery and 1800A phase), surely a whole lot more reliable and already tested and validated by many users all around the world.

Don't get me wrong, I'd really like to see you try RC ESCs for my own curiosity's sake, but I just don't think this is the wisest thing to do for you and I wouldn't feel great seeing you throw away so much money in the very likely scenario that it'll blow up.

Otherwise if you're really stuck with VESC for some reason, I heard that the 3shul controllers aren't bad.

 

[Rcblack]

Sounds like a very high cost just for the sake of being different.
For half the prince you could get a Fardriver 841800, which is a whole lot more powerful (up to 1300A battery and 1800A phase), surely a whole lot more reliable and already tested and validated by many users all around the world.

Don't get me wrong, I'd really like to see you try RC ESCs for my own curiosity's sake, but I just don't think this is the wisest thing to do for you and I wouldn't feel great seeing you throw away so much money in the very likely scenario that it'll blow up.

Otherwise if you're really stuck with VESC for some reason, I heard that the 3shul controllers aren't bad.

The hobby grade ESCs and Motors was just an idea, even though (4) Hobbywing Max4s and (4) tTP power 5870s will give me 60kw burst total. The route I've chosen is Trampa boards. I will be using (4) 100v/250a VESCs and (4) 120/100 80kv 25kw brushless outrunners (1) motor driving each wheel geared down 9.1:1 This set up will give around 130hp and around 130lb/ft of torque for less than 50lbs in motor weigh equivalent. One big motor and one huge speed controller is the traditional way but I try to avoid tradition. The buggy I'm building will be less that 600lbs max fully loaded and 130hp is more than enough, I also want it to be AWD hince the (4) motors. I'm not an engineer, but I do have a A.S in Electrical Technology. I have done the math and ran the numbers and this set up will yield a lighter vehicle vs 1 big motor.

 

[Rcblack]

Sounds like a very high cost just for the sake of being different.
For half the prince you could get a Fardriver 841800, which is a whole lot more powerful (up to 1300A battery and 1800A phase), surely a whole lot more reliable and already tested and validated by many users all around the world.

Don't get me wrong, I'd really like to see you try RC ESCs for my own curiosity's sake, but I just don't think this is the wisest thing to do for you and I wouldn't feel great seeing you throw away so much money in the very likely scenario that it'll blow up.

Otherwise if you're really stuck with VESC for some reason, I heard that the 3shul controllers aren't bad.

expand...The hobby grade ESCs and Motors was just an idea, even though (4) Hobbywing Max4s and (4) tTP power 5870s will give me 60kw burst total. The route I've chosen is Trampa boards. I will be using (4) 100v/250a VESCs and (4) 120/100 80kv 25kw brushless outrunners (1) motor driving each wheel geared down 9.1:1 This set up will give around 130hp and around 130lb/ft of torque for less than 50lbs in motor weigh equivalent. One big motor and one huge speed controller is the traditional way but I try to avoid tradition. The buggy I'm building will be less that 600lbs max fully loaded and 130hp is more than enough, I also want it to be AWD hince the (4) motors. I'm not an engineer, but I do have a A.S in Electrical Technology. I have done the math and ran the numbers and this set up will yield a lighter vehicle vs 1 big motor.

 

[rcnonstop]

Sounds like a very high cost just for the sake of being different.
For half the prince you could get a Fardriver 841800, which is a whole lot more powerful (up to 1300A battery and 1800A phase), surely a whole lot more reliable and already tested and validated by many users all around the world.

Don't get me wrong, I'd really like to see you try RC ESCs for my own curiosity's sake, but I just don't think this is the wisest thing to do for you and I wouldn't feel great seeing you throw away so much money in the very likely scenario that it'll blow up.

Otherwise if you're really stuck with VESC for some reason, I heard that the 3shul controllers aren't bad.

On the contrary, I would be absolutely happy to replace VESC with Fardriver in my heavy water "RC" projects ) 72450 would be enough to be absolutely confident in the reliability and get the most out of my extremely cheap sensorless motors. But unfortunately, there is no reason to believe that they will be compatible. I think there is no way Fardriver can handle sensorless mode.
As for VESCs, the bulk of them are still too weak for large constant loads for several hours, they all burn sooner or later when used like that. Trampa is certainly much better if you don't look at the price.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

But unfortunately, there is no reason to believe that they will be compatible. I think there is no way Fardriver can handle sensorless mode.

Indeed, there is no sensorless mode available on the fardrivers as far as I know, only hall sensors or encoders.
I don't know what your motors are, but hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to add sensors to it.

 

[rcnonstop]

Indeed, there is no sensorless mode available on the fardrivers as far as I know, only hall sensors or encoders.
I don't know what your motors are, but hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to add sensors to it.

It's 6384 outrunner. Hall versions is widely available, but when it's used underwater there is some pain to protect it. But the main doubts are that on the entire Internet there is not a single mention of the use of these motors with Fardriver.

 

[Rcblack]

60,000 Watts just came in today. I order (4) TP power 58122 15kw Bldc motors sensored. (4) Trampa 100/250s will be in next month. I'll have pics of the build soon.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

These look very small, how much RPM do they need to reach the 15KW? The internet tells me they run at 40 000rpm but I guess the KV can be customised.
How do you plan on connecting them to the wheels?

 

[Rcblack]

They are the size of coke cans and 100% custom built, 40k rpm is correct. I chose 750kv because I need to gear this build down significantly. When it comes to Bldc inrunners these are top notch. All motors will be spinning the same shaft through compound gearing, 17t/120t motor pinion/spur gear and 9t/72t counter driven/drive gear for a final gear ratio of around 56:1 give or take because my wheels are 26" diameter. 60kw is still a hell of a lot of power no matter the form it comes in 1 motor or 4.

 

[stan.distortion]

Have you built or converted anything before? You're probably a bit far into this build to reconsider at this stage but it would probably have been worth trying things out on something smaller first, one of those motors and controllers on a cart for example. My first build was a chainsaw and it used similar hardware, a 12s 50a VESC and 4290 1/5th RC motor and it was an education, estimated gearing was way too high (changed from 3/1 to 6/1 iirc), cooling was a major issue and the low down torque from electric has to be felt to be believed. Turned out a frickin awesome saw in the end but it was a way bigger learning experience than expected.

You're going to have similar issues. Motor heat will likely be a problem, especially at low speeds. Decent heatsinks or maybe water cooling may be needed, getting the gearing low enough will help a lot with that but the sweet spot for light load and a decent top speed could prove elusive, if the motors don't have temperature sensors then I'd strongly suggest fitting them. Did you mention batteries? Sry if I missed it, I'm guessing lipo's because there's not a lot else you can use that will give you the amps while keeping the weight down but careful selection should find something that doesn't tip the scales too much and has decent range/lifespan/not burning the house down characteristics.

Subbed, looking forward to how this turns out.

 

[Rcblack]

I've been doing things like this since 1988 I'm now 45yrs. These hobby grade motor will give me what I'm looking for. Heat is always an issue in any Electrical system. Each motor has is own heat sink with triple 40mmx10mm 28000rpm fans, also the motors will be housed in a air tight compartment with additional high volocity cooling fans blowing air in and suck air out for additional cooling. I've considered water cooling but that will add extra weight. This vehicle is not for off road, long drives, drifting, speeding, racing, burning rubber or popping wheelies just cruising at traffic speeds(45-55mph). I'll be building my own 12s50p lipo packs 2 of them. I want to give you an example. say if I'm building a vehicle that's 600lbs fully loaded with batteries and I'm using these 4 motors. At 1:1 gearing each motor will have to do 150lbs of work which is a lot for these motors, but that 150lbs gets divided by the 56:1 final drive ratio which means that each motors will only have to do about about 2.7ish lbs of work and that is nothing for these motors, all bearings are racing ceramic bearings to help with rolling resistance. What I'm building will not be 600lbs not even close that was just a example. I will have all sensors needed, motor temp, rpm and battery temp.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

Pretty much everything you said sounds like a succession of giant red flags to me, but I have zero experience with RC grade stuff so I'll follow with great interest and sincerely hope you'll prove my assumptions were completely wrong.
I'd love to be able to replace my giant and super heavy QS273 motor with one (or several) of these tiny little things, so I really hope you'l succeed, even though right now I wouldn't bet my life savings on it haha.

I think we all would love to see some pics of the frame of the buggy as well!