In search for an appropriate base motorcycle...

[ekech]

I am quite impressed by some of the builds here and - as a German - I am also a bit envious seeing street legal builds from countries with very soft or almost no regulations.
Currently I have not started any conversion project, but I am evaluating appropriate options that also would have a chance to get approved by our German authorities with reasonable efforts.

First of all: What kind of motorbike do I want to have, what are my basic requirements?
Let's call it a "middleweight electric travel/ADV motorcycle".

• base motorcycle available in Germany
• street legal in Germany
• less than 200kg
• top speed of 120km/h
• capable of doing some gravel and light offroad stuff (more than 160mm suspension travel, 19" or 21" front wheel)
• range of 120+ kilometers when riding smaller backcountry roads at an avg speed of about 60km/h
• chargable at public charging stations ("type 2" chargers)
• comfortable enough to spend a full day in the saddle (OK, we will need some charging breaks)

You may think "just buy yourself a Zero DS/DSR/DSR-X or the new Can-Am Origin", but while ticking most of the above boxes, these are a bit on the expensive side ... (and we are here for a reason!)

So what would be an appropriate base for an electric conversion according to my requirements?

Oh, I have to throw in some more requirements or restrictions:

• no cutting or welding on frame and swing arms (can't do this by myself, also requires lots of efforts to get approved)
• original motor should not be a stressed member of the frame
• not using a hub motor due to the large unsprung mass, gyroscopical force and typically requiring modifications to swing arms and braking system

Any suggestions meeting my requirements are highly welcome

 

[dominik h]

The first thing, find a TüV ingeneer, that knows which rules you have to follow, otherwhise it will probably get to expensive to get it road legal.
Without the TüV ingeneer I would not start to buy any parts. Thinking what you want to build is good, but you need the man that makes it road legal.

The ingeneer I talked to, said the motorcycle has to be before 1990 necause of EMC (EMV) rules, bit I'm not really shure that it has to be that old.

I want to build a SZR660 or an Aprillia SXV or RXV but they are all build after 1990.

 

[ekech]

The first thing, find a TüV ingeneer, that knows which rules you have to follow, otherwhise it will probably get to expensive to get it road legal.

The ingeneer I talked to, said the motorcycle has to be before 1990 necause of EMC (EMV) rules, bit I'm not really shure that it has to be that old.

I want to build a SZR660 or an Aprillia SXV or RXV but they are all build after 1990.

thanks - from what I read, the EMV rules aren't that strict, so the motorcycle can be quite a bit newer. The EMV regulation itself is from 2016 and is "applied" since 2023, so IIRC for anything between 2000 and 2023 it's up to the engineer, if he requests the EMV but it is not strictly necessary (so we are at your "find a good engineer").

As soon as I am leaving this very early stage of evaluation and pre-planning, I will talk to the TÜV and discuss my plans.

So back to my question:
Unfortunately one of my most obvious candidates (the Suzuki XF650 Freewind in my garage) uses its motor as stressed member of the frame :-(

 

[Chalo]

I would have assumed you wouldn't be allowed to drive a motorcycle any place in Germany where you'd need 160mm suspension to get by. Where can you ride that's like that?

 

[ekech]

I would have assumed you wouldn't be allowed to drive a motorcycle any place in Germany where you'd need 160mm suspension to get by. Where can you ride that's like that?

it's not that I am riding only in Germany - I traveled large parts of Europe in the last 3 years. Also there is a difference between "being allowed" and "being able to" (rural areas with a non-suspicious, silent vehicle)

 

[ekech]

Currently it looks like a Suzuki V-Strom (650 or 1000, doesn't matter) would be my best option.
If I sacrifice the (limited) offroad capabilities, I could also think about a Yamaha TDM 850/900 or a Aprilia Shiver/Dorsoduro 750, since they also seem to have a viable, solid frame with plenty of space for a large battery pack...

Speaking of a large battery pack:
I stumbled upon this: Using Volkswagen MEB battery modules - EVcreate
And I can't help myself thinking that 2 of this 12s2p VW MEB modules with a total capacity of about 13kWh would be a good alternative for a DIY battery pack. Although the modules are quite long (about 600mm), they probably could fit into the frame of the mentioned bikes in upright position...

 

[dominik h]

I also thought about the same batteries.
These modules are the easiest way to get a good battery, if you can fit them. 3 of the 12S fit perfectly in a Vectrix scooter.
There do also exist shorter versions with less capacity.

 

[ekech]

Finally I got my hands on some kind of guideline paper for getting electric conversions approved in Germany.
Unfortunately it reflects the image of German engineering (and German authorities) - complicated, over-engineered, over-protecting, and patronizing.
While there is a small chance of finding a "friendly" engineer at the approval with a relaxed point of view, it is too much of a gamble doing just a clean and technical sound electric conversion without adapting every single aspect of the conversion to every f*cking regulation.

 

[bananu7]

How about getting it registered in Poland and then bringing over? I have just read a post on our local e-mobility website of such a vehicle getting officially registered.

AFAIK there are no needs for any certifications of any kind on components for the paperwork to get done. You need paperwork for disassembly of the original vehicle and regular ownership, and then you just need to find a diagnostic station that can put a stamp on the change. Technically speaking, insurance might have issues if anything was to happen to a vehicle with an unhomologated motor. Practically, you can go out and ride, if that's what you're after.

 

[ekech]

How about getting it registered in Poland and then bringing over? I have just read a post on our local e-mobility website of such a vehicle getting officially registered.

AFAIK there are no needs for any certifications of any kind on components for the paperwork to get done. You need paperwork for disassembly of the original vehicle and regular ownership, and then you just need to find a diagnostic station that can put a stamp on the change. Technically speaking, insurance might have issues if anything was to happen to a vehicle with an unhomologated motor. Practically, you can go out and ride, if that's what you're after.

sounds like an interesting idea, but sounds also a bit like another gamble. It will draw some interesting questions in case of an accident or just a police control...

Did a little research:
Although I could register (+insure) a motorbike in Poland as a non-resident and I could bring the motorbike back to Germany, the
German authorities would force me after six months either to justify the Polish registration or re-register the bike in Germany - which then would involve the German TÜV again...

Nevertheless - since I am also busy with some other topics, I won't follow this project any longer.