KiwiEVs next project fast EV

[galderdi]

I am catching up with a suplier next week he can get a AC 250hp 237 ft lb motor at 56 kg.

Just checking this out.

I also was thinking of making a solar panel rear tub lid measures 1500mm x 1900mm do you think its worth it?
I could get 5 pannels at 24 volt 5 amp, has anyone plug these straight to a battery with out regulator?

Cheers Kiwi

I'll take 4. Should be enough to get 500kg moving.

 

[kiwiev]

I am catching up with a suplier next week he can get a AC 250hp 237 ft lb motor at 56 kg.

Just checking this out.

I also was thinking of making a solar panel rear tub lid measures 1500mm x 1900mm do you think its worth it?
I could get 5 pannels at 24 volt 5 amp, has anyone plug these straight to a battery with out regulator?

Cheers Kiwi

I'll take 4. Should be enough to get 500kg moving.

Yes mate I had an up close look yesterday they are compacted.

Cheers Kiwi

 

[kiwiev]

So I went and checked out the Parker motors yesterday with the Rinehart controller they look good but :?


PROs:

-light 56 Kg compact
-power I want maybe 186Kw
-Controller is set up for racing can get 650 Amps at 350 volts

CONs:

-expensive with controller double the price of an HPEV motor controller package
-they have a spline shaft so need a different adapter
-don't mount I think to the adapter plate I have ordered
-don't have a dual output shaft so I cant run Aircon pump
-they are 350 volt so getting a 12 volt DC-DC converter is rare

I guess reality is this a Toyota Hilux ute and spending $20K on the motor and controller is hard to swallow

I did how ever find something good I can get these cells for around 50 cents a Watt hour

Any thoughts would be appreciated Toecutter Hillhater Galderdi Oatnet CD ?????

Cheers Kiwi

 

[Hillhater]

Kokam have a reputation for producing high quality, high performance cells.
At 5/10C discharge, those are not the most powerful cells they make, but it depends on what you need from your pack.
Are they new , ? Or "salvaged" ?
At $0.5 /Whr they are priced similar to the 20Ahr A123 pouches.

 

[kiwiev]

Kokam have a reputation for producing high quality, high performance cells.
At 5/10C discharge, those are not the most powerful cells they make, but it depends on what you need from your pack.
Are they new , ? Or "salvaged" ?
At $0.5 /Whr they are priced similar to the 20Ahr A123 pouches.

Yes mate they are new

they should suit both motors but I really don't know what way to go

Any thoughts

Cheers Kiwi

 

[oatnet]

I don't have direct experience with Kokham cells but I have read good things about them and don't recall any horror stories. I think these are NMC which is supposed to be stable, do they have any tests on overcharge/overdischarge/puncture-crush?

Energy density and volume looks good, as does 4,000 cycles and 5C/8C discharge. How many cells would you run in parallel, how many AH do you want your pack to have?

On the stats document you linked to, there is an Icon titled "Excellent Satety" :lol:

 

[kiwiev]

So another option is take the motor, controllers and batteries out of the sonic and use in the ute and then give the Sonic 7 the treatment

A wee video of Sonic 7

[youtube]kaqrUI_AUCc [/youtube]

 

[kiwiev]

So if I go with Kokam cells

Has anyone had experience or recommend a good BMS

Cheers kiwi

 

[oatnet]

So if I go with Kokam cells

Has anyone had experience or recommend a good BMS

Cheers kiwi

I'm sure BMS have improved since I developed an aversion to them in '06/'07/'08 - but I had a few cells killed by faulty BMS, and had them confound a few builds, occasionally failing and stranding me, or tripping well below rated loads until I bypassed them for discharge. I ditched the typical BMS and never looked back.

Instead, I use banks of single-cell chargers for periodic balancing after a regular bulk charge. On eBikes a monitoring at the pack level with a CycleAnalyst is enough for me.

For general monitoring on my dune buggy, I use an array of (6) CellLogs, which could monitor up to 48 cells with bar-graph and numeric displays of individual cell voltages. The CellLogs come with an alarm output that can from a cell level can trigger pack HVC or LVC, and the "s" version will allow you to store and download performance data. On the downside, you can power them off by interrupting current to pin 1, but they still have a microvoltage drain. Not a problem on high-AH cells or frequently used vehicles, but a problem on ebike sized packs that sit idle for a year.

Electricporsche developed an elegant breakout board for an array of 4 CellLogs: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/cell-log-8-breakout-module-70186.html

Anyhow, that is what works for me, but probably not what you or many others are looking for.

-JD

 

[oatnet]

So another option is take the motor, controllers and batteries out of the sonic and use in the ute and then give the Sonic 7 the treatment

A wee video of Sonic 7

Fun video, thanks for posting. Your driveway is almost big enough a freeway/highway! :lol:

I keep hoping you'll go brushed for the ultimate torque... Dual 8" Warp motors on a the same shaft, powered by a Zilla 2k with automatic parallel/series shifting, has served White Zombie well. Probably go through a lot of tires that way though. :lol:

-JD

 

[kiwiev]

So another option is take the motor, controllers and batteries out of the sonic and use in the ute and then give the Sonic 7 the treatment

A wee video of Sonic 7

Fun video, thanks for posting. Your driveway is almost big enough a freeway/highway! :lol:

I keep hoping you'll go brushed for the ultimate torque... Dual 8" Warp motors on a the same shaft, powered by a Zilla 2k with automatic parallel/series shifting, has served White Zombie well. Probably go through a lot of tires that way though. :lol:

-JD

Hey JD Thanks

I know the DC has torque but they don't like continuous revs and power I had the sonic down a back road today had had it doing 100 mph for about 5 minutes on a long straight that is flat out btw due to direct drive and gearing but the motor only got to 88 Deg C and the controller 45 Deg C doing 7850 rpm I don't know if a DC motor would handle that

Cheers Kiwi

PS I am slowly working on the director of finance and she is coming around on the EV ute

Cheers Kiwi

 

[riba2233]

So another option is take the motor, controllers and batteries out of the sonic and use in the ute and then give the Sonic 7 the treatment

A wee video of Sonic 7

Fun video, thanks for posting. Your driveway is almost big enough a freeway/highway! :lol:

I keep hoping you'll go brushed for the ultimate torque... Dual 8" Warp motors on a the same shaft, powered by a Zilla 2k with automatic parallel/series shifting, has served White Zombie well. Probably go through a lot of tires that way though. :lol:

-JD

Hey JD Thanks

I know the DC has torque but they don't like continuous revs and power I had the sonic down a back road today had had it doing 100 mph for about 5 minutes on a long straight that is flat out btw due to direct drive and gearing but the motor only got to 88 Deg C and the controller 45 Deg C doing 7850 rpm I don't know if a DC motor would handle that

Cheers Kiwi

PS I am slowly working on the director of finance and she is coming around on the EV ute

Cheers Kiwi

Try Kostov motors

 

[kiwiev]

Thanks Riba

But I really like the AC Regen.


Nissan leaft module
Number of Cells
4
Structure
2 parallel, 2 series
Exterior Dimensions
Length
303 mm
Width
223mm
Height
35mm
Weight
3.8 kg

So I have been researching the Nissan Leaf modules and jack from EVTV thinks they can do 300 Amps so I need 1300 for the HPEV 2x35 motor if I can get a wreck they have 48 modules I can use 45 modules in 3P 15S to give 126 volts hot off the charger and just under 22Kwh and 900 Amps peak so I need 400 amps more
I could get 4 Tesla modules that would give me another 300Amp peak and 12 more KWh but not enough Amps.
Or I go CALB Cam 72 with 144 cells and a 3P 36S pack would give 33Kwh and over 1600Amps peak or go the Kokams as JD states I am concerned about the tabs as I live on a dirt road and a manufactured pack sounds great

So on the ute I have enough room up front for the motor is 611mm and see picture below I have over 800mm
the rear underneath where the fuel tank and muffler have 2 areas 380mm wide and nearly 1000mm long and 400mm deep
So I could squeeze 4 Tesla modules one side and 30 Nissan leaf modules the other side that would leave 15 leaf modules for the front which I would like for weight as the motor and controllers only weigh 75Kg and the ICE motor is approx. 180 Kg

I know mixing batteries isn't the best situation but Jehu has done this on his electric Samba bus really well. The above as always is to make the most reliable and cheapest build and still have range and power I don't want much do I :lol:

Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated

Cheers Kiwi

 

[oatnet]

I wasn't really sure how you were talking about combining them. Mixing chemistries in SERIES is OK if they have similar AH and peak voltage, but PARALLEL can be dangerous, as they will have different discharge curves which can lead to massive current flowing from the chemistry at higher resting voltage to the other one.

You have all that great space in the truck bed... You probably are sold on the underneath mounting for aesthetics, but it can be a pain to have a difficult to access battery box. One of my fears for the towd is a battery fire, which I would have to remove the body to get at, so if I were to do it over I'd cut the trunk out and mount them accessibly. It only takes about an hour to lift the body to get access to the 28s module for maintenance, but getting to the 7s modules in the "legs" of the battery box would be a pain. I wouldn't have built this way if it wasn't a safety chemistry like a123, and I took great pains to make the power wiring path as durable as possIble, but...

-JD

 

[kiwiev]

I wasn't really sure how you were talking about combining them. Mixing chemistries in SERIES is OK if they have similar AH and peak voltage, but PARALLEL can be dangerous, as they will have different discharge curves which can lead to massive current flowing from the chemistry at higher resting voltage to the other one.

You have all that great space in the truck bed... You probably are sold on the underneath mounting for aesthetics, but it can be a pain to have a difficult to access battery box. One of my fears for the towd is a battery fire, which I would have to remove the body to get at, so if I were to do it over I'd cut the trunk out and mount them accessibly. It only takes about an hour to lift the body to get access to the 28s module for maintenance, but getting to the 7s modules in the "legs" of the battery box would be a pain. I wouldn't have built this way if it wasn't a safety chemistry like a123, and I took great pains to make the power wiring path as durable as possIble, but...

-JD

Hey JD someone beat me to the leaf pack bugger and they are like rocking horse shit over here so back to plan B and take the 160Ah Winston out of the Sonic and get 26 more that will give me a 2S 36P 36Kwh pack heavy I know 412Kg but I like your idea of putting battery in the tub nice and simple in one Aluminum box and can insulate against the snow.

So there will be no problems supplying the Amps . The Sonic will loose 190 Kg and 8 Kwh hopefully still 80 to 90 km range with a 85 Kg Kokam pack that will bring the car down to 650Kg.

Will interesting to see what the performance will be.

Cheers Kiwi

 

[Hillhater]

Kiwiev, sorry, for the delayin reply to you question on the Leaf battery specs
I dug this out of the long Leaf cell thread...

Nissan Leaf Battery Specs

Type Laminated lithium-ion battery
Voltage 403.2V [1]
Nominal voltage 360V [2]
Total capacity 24 kWh [2] (16 kWh available, 67% DoD [3], 21 kWh declared [4])
Power output Over 90 kW
Energy density 140 Wh/kg [5]
]Power density 2.5 kW/kg [5]
Dimensions 61.8 x 46.8 x 10.4 in. (1570.5 x 1188 x 264.9 mm) [1]
Weight 648 lbs [6]
Number of modules 48, each with four cells (total 192 cells) [7][2]
Battery pack contents:
Positive electrodes: lithium manganate
Negative electrodes: carbon
Cells
Modules
Assembly parts
Charging times:
Quick charger DC50kW (0 to 80%): approx. 30 min (Level 3 charging)
Home-use AC240V charging dock (0-100%): 8 hrs (Level 2 charging) [8]
Regular 110/120V 15-amp outlet: 22 hours (Level 1 charging) [9]
Battery layout Under seat & floor

Battery module specs[2]

Number of cells 4
Construction 2 in-series pairs in parallel
Length 11.9291" (303 mm)
Width 8.7795" (223 mm)
Thickness 1.3779" (35 mm)
Weight 8.3775 lbs (3.8 kgs)
Output terminal M6 nut
Voltage sensing terminal M4 nut
Module fixing hole diameter 0.3582" (9.1 mm)

Cell specs[2]

Cell type Laminate type
Cathode material LiMn2O4 with LiNiO2
Anode material Graphite
Rated capacity (0.3C) 33.1 Ah
Average voltage 3.8 V
Length 11.417" (290 mm)
Width 8.504" (216 mm)
Thickness 0.2795" (7.1mm)
Weight 1.7624 lbs (799 g)

Note the POWER DENSITY figure of 2.5kW/kg.
Using that together with the cell weight of 799gms, gives a possible max (burst ?) amp figure of 525 amps /cell. = 16C....
Continuous output would be the 90kw rating , which would imply 250 amps from the pack or 125amps per cell.
So that would represent a 4+ C rating.
I believe all this data is for the "generation 1" cells.

 

[kiwiev]

Cheers Hilly

Its a Bugger I missed out could have worked for me.

Cheers Kiwi

Has anyone got any weight to acceleration charts so I can see if 200Kg extra is going to kill it.

 

[Hillhater]

......
Has anyone got any weight to acceleration charts so I can see if 200Kg extra is going to kill it.

Have a look at this..
I have not used it, but its getting good feedback over on DIYEVCar
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AfWEe8Cri6zMAHklCGVWhXjerbBkRirHuTsJvG6j_pA/htmlview?pli=1

 

[kiwiev]

Thanks Hilly

I'm not sure how to use it either do you have log on to Google access and change parameters?

Great info thou

Cheers Kiwi

 

[Hillhater]

Have a quick read thro' this thread.
It gives afew tips etc..
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/google-sheets-ev-calculator-172002.html

 

[kiwiev]

Thanks hilly

Had a look still can't get it to work, I scored a 5 speed gearbox clutch brake peddle box and master and slaves to do auto to manual box conversion 165000 km on it for $550

The plan is to mount up motor and box make sure it all fits.

Had another meassure under ute I can get 2 sets of 100 Ah CALB 36 cells under tray for around 215kg.

Cheers Kiwi

 

[kiwiev]

So I cleaned up the gearbox which took an afternoon of hard elbow grease bolted up adapter plate and wouldn't you know it fits :lol:

I need to source a flywheel to copy to machine up a alloy one and a clutch kit that can take 260 ft/lb which seams to be a problem anyone know if a supra clutch will fit the spline on a R22 gearbox ???? or any other clutch.

All I need to do now is win lotto to fund my motor and EV addiction


Cheers Kiwi

 

[oatnet]

That cleaned up nice. Where did you source the adaptor plate from?

-JD

 

[kiwiev]

That cleaned up nice. Where did you source the adaptor plate from?

-JD

Thanks JD

The adapter is made at Canadian EV but I bought it at EV West.

Im slowly buying bits and trying to keep under the director finance radar

Cheers Kiwi

 

[galderdi]

Lets hope all our finance directors never work out they can log on here and work out how much we are spending.

If I ever add a post from Ireland it means mine caught on and forced me to by her a holiday to Ireland as compensation.