KMX Trike with TDCM IGH & Phaserunner

[calfeetwenty]

I bought a KMX frame kit from Utah Trikes last summer and I am finally starting to work on it. The kit was more complete than I thought it would be. You need to supply the rear wheel, derailleurs and shifting controls. A crankset and brake components are also needed. Tires of course but the rest is there including pedals and chain brake levers and cables. Actually this is pretty good because you can install the components that you want or that you have.

I may have been a little to quick to buy the kit because the price dropped from $850 to $699. If I had waited to long I might not have gotten one because they are out of them now.

The kit came with 20" front wheels and I installed Big Apple tires on them. Last summer I bought 2 hub motors with thin laminations, an Edge 1500 and a TCDM IGH with the slower 305 winding. The Edge went on a Fat Electra Cruiser so the TCDM will be on the trike. I laced it to an Alec DX32 rim with Sapim Strong spokes.

I installed the front and rear wheels and got the seat where I think I will like it. Oh yeah I installed a Big apple on the back. "Note I have a Big Apple hang up" There will be just enough room in the rear fork to squeeze a fender in.





Here it is as it sits now.

 

[adam333]

Glad to see you started the build thread!

I will follow your developments and results.

 

[calfeetwenty]

This motor has a strange movable torque tab so a custom torque plate had to be fabricated from a piece of steel. I have some 3/8th flat stock laying around so I cut a piece and faced it on both sides with my lathe to a fat 1/4 inch.



The torque plate is the bare metal piece behind the dropout. The torque tab is directly below the axle nut.



You can see the tab a little better from this view. This is probably the worse thing about this motor. The nonstandard torque solution. The rear brake is also setup with a factory Electra caliper

After getting this wheel and brake installed has kind of gotten me a good leg up on this build. Wiring and controls are about all that is left and that should be more straight forward now.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Here is a view from the other side. I will start doing some wiring and control work in the next few days. It will be interesting to see how this hub motor works. I have been looking around on the sphere for info on the TDCM. I found a few threads with installations but no real info on how well they work. I am figuring it will be similar to my Edge 1500 but a little slower.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Well I got the trike finished. From the last photo about all that was left controls and wiring. I mounted a couple of rectangular batteries in Blackburn Outpost bags. I put a 52 volt on one side and a 72 volt on the other.








Here is a closeup of one of the battery bags

 

[calfeetwenty]

The twist shifter for the five speed is on the left along with your typical set of switches mounted in a gang. I am using the headlight on/off button as an additional kill switch and the horn button is now a reverse switch.

I have a Cyclone throttle/ignition switch on the right and a couple of green buttons to change my PAS levels. The controller is an amazingly small Phaserunner mounted on the boom.



I went for a forty mile test ride and used the 52 volt battery on the way out and the 72 volt pak on the way back. I saw very little difference between the voltages as long as the PAS was being used. What I really missed was a luggage rack and my Topeak trunk/bag that goes on every bike.

Sooooooooo





I moved a slimline battery rack from another bike and decided to stick with 52 volt batteries in this rig. I also added a mount for a niterider taillight to the bag so I can have a strobe on any bike that has the bag on it.


The TDCM doesn't have any kind of a hole shot but that may be because of the phaserunner. I won't know until I try a different controller. That won't happen anytime soon because I really like the way this trike runs right now. Once you are going a couple of mph the motor is quite responsive and will pull me up hills with the throttle alone. Bear in mind I live in the flatlands and had to go looking for hills. The ones I did find most people probably would laugh at.


The 5 speed works great. I have the PAS set up for 1500 watts in 10 steps and just leave it at 500 watts. This trike is a coasting machine. Just start off in 1st and the motor kicks in within a quarter turn of the pedals and you are off with 500 watts which seems to be all this needs. It seems all you need are 1st and 4th or fifth. Once you get started it pulls fine in any gear.

I have let a few people ride some of my bikes and for for a new "older" rider the initial hit of a few hundred watts or more can be a little startling. This rig doesn't do that. It just smoothly takes off will bring you right up to twenty plus. I haven't gone faster yet. The trike is very stable but the slightest touch can have you in a different lane. I am going to install a steering damper and see if this will help.

The motor typically runs around 60 degrees C but a few hills and a lot throttle has seen 70 but not 80 yet. This motor has stator aid according to grin and I don't think any senible riding would overheat it. There is an odd very soft grunting noise on starts but then it is totally silent. All I hear is tire noise. I can really sneak up on people on the bike paths, dogs to.


If anyone has any questions about this motor feel free to ask. There is very little info on the Sphere about it. This would be a great motor for just about any bike. The only draw back I see is the torque tab may make installation a little harder. Horizontal dropouts will be a plus here.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Oh I forgot to add this rig s getting me 17 watts per mile! It is the most efficient bike that I have. This is probably due to the recumbent position.

 

[Alan B]

Nice Trike build. Good to see more PhaseRunner builds and Grin's motor with IGH.

 

[adam333]

Nice and Tidy build

This controller is by far the smallest I ever saw. Your power usage is also very good, I am doing 26 Wh/miles on mine.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Speed update.

Ok for all of the speed freaks out there I guess saying 20 + doesn't cut it. I have a 14 amp/hr GA rectangle from Luna that was charged to 90%. I found a flat straight stretch with a slight down hill slope. I got up to 29.7 mph. The motor was in that slow uptick mode but I didn't see any reason to push it more. In the other direction, slight up hill I got to 27.9 mph. The cycle analyst recorded a max of 41 amps and a low voltage of 56.9 which I assume was on the uphill run. I suspect the 41 amps is about all you can expect from the Phaserunner.

II think this video will describe the slow takeoff. Watch from three minutes on and pay attention to the speed readout on the screen. When he starts out there is a fraction of a second where the bike is slow to accelerate and then it takes off with a rush and then slowly increases speed again.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=230&v=kIo0g0OSYy8[/youtube]

This hub is much smaller than the rig in the video but it has similar characteristics. It doesn't take off with a jerk but it pulls good and it will give you a good rush of speed from about 10 to 25.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Nice and Tidy build

This controller is by far the smallest I ever saw. Your power usage is also very good, I am doing 26 Wh/miles on mine.

I am sure I am going a lot slower than you.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Well after about 300 miles I have two complaints the side thrust developed in turns on the trike flexes the rear wheel enough to cause the rear brake disc to touch and sing. It doesn't have to be much of a turn either. The bicycle axle and bearings in the Sturmey-Archer hub don't seem to be up to the task. A two wheeler should be fine because everything stays in line when leaning in turns. The slow start off is of course another.

I took my Edge 1500 off of the fat rim it was laced to and put it on a 24 inch nova rim.



I tried a cross 1 pattern but I got spoke bending at the nipples so I switched to this radial pattern. I started out by cutting and rethreading some Sapim strong 13/12 ga butted spokes but when I decided to go with the radial pattern I switched to some straight 13 ga spokes that commuter ebikes gave me.

I have been threading the spokes with this rig.



There is a substantial learning curve to get the threads correct. Greenwerks just got one of these and we spent 3 hours on the phone while we were fiddling around and trying different things to get our threaders to work. I wouldn't want to try to make a living with one of these but if you want to repurpose a few sets of spokes it will pay for itself.

The wheel should go on fairly easy but it seems we are rapidly running out of weather so I don't know when I will get to test it...…..calfee

 

[calfeetwenty]

Well the trike is totally rebuilt. I laced up two new front wheels using Nova rims. I went with an odd spoke pattern because of an article I read somewhere. It seems a radial pattern is stronger for side loading that a trike will receive. I used a cross 3 pattern with Sapim strong spokes on the inside, and a radial pattern on the outside with those 13 ga spokes commuterebikes gave me.

I don't know if you will be able to see the patterns but here is a photo.


The changes to the trike include new rims all around. New motor, controller, throttle, 60 tooth chain wheel, 140mm crank arms and a 12-26 freewheel. The handlebars got moved up and forward a little "great change for me" I also pulled out the 52 volt slimline battery and rack and swapped in a new Topeak rack. I have also gone to 72 volts with a pair of these Luna batteries. http://lunacycle.com/72v-panasonic-pf-11-6ah/ Based on past performance I should have a t least a 75 mile range, if I can keep my foot out of the accelerator so to speak.

Finally a finished photo.


Every change I made has had a positive impact on the rideability of the trike and I plan on reprograming the controller when I get to Florida. 8000 watts once in a while should be fun...……….calfee

 

[calfeetwenty]

2 days ago
I went on a 30 mile ride today and I was taking it easy. Pedal assist 500 watts, max speed 23 mph and average speed was around 12. I was getting 16 watts per mile. This will give me a range of over 100 miles.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Once you get around 25 it gets a little "twitchy". You have to ride it with a light hand because the smallest input will corner it right now. When you pedal with PAS the trike will slightly rock or weave with your pedaling motion. I installed a 60 tooth chain wheel and a 12-26 7spd freewheel to combat this problem. I am also running 140 mm crank arms. The slower cadence allows me to pedal up to about 25 and maintain a decent line.

I have no idea how the controller is setup. I got on it once with the 3spd switch in high and was going to fast like right away. I glanced down after I let the throttle go and I was going more than 30. There are guys out there who go more than 50 on these but not me.

That one time was around 5000 watts and only one battery was connected. I have since connected two in parallel so 100 amps is easily doable. What for I don't know. The Suncoast bike trail down here North of Tampa would be just the place to try it though.

Speed runs are throttle only and straight of course!

I have decided to buy another frame kit and extend the wheelbase and increase the high speed stability. This will take a while because I am in Florida now and have to build my Vector Typhoon first. I also have an easy racer recumbent to squeeze in somewhere.

 

[adam333]

nice

The suspension should have helped with the "twitchy" feeling, although if you pedal the trike, you cannot pull on handle or it will steer slightly each time.

Did you adjust the toe-in / toe-out recently? even a small toe-out will make the bike unstable.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Thanks for that info, I will check. How much toe in do you run?

 

[The Toecutter]

I can't speak for adam333, but on the front wheels, I have the front width between the front wheels 1/16" more narrow than the rear width of the front wheels. This helps keep it tracking straight without adding a noticeable amount of rolling resistance. It doesn't feel darty.

I haven't electrified mine yet. Before I built I velomobile body, and after I installed adam's front suspension, I could reach 29 mph on flat ground, pedal power only. At the time, my only aerodynamic modification was homemade wheel discs. I've since built a velomobile body shell.

If you want to see your efficiency increase dramatically, build yourself a velomobile body for it. Mine had enough trunk space to carry a few days worth of food, multiple changes of clothes, hygiene items, camping gear, spare tires/tubes, and all the tools I needed to work on it. Cruising speed on flat ground increased to 21 mph and top speed on flat ground increased to 35 mph, and it was not uncommon for me to average 17+ mph on long trips provided I didn't have a lot of stops or traffic lights. It's been over 50 mph downhill and was riding smooth, stable, and felt safe.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=66772&start=175#p1402653

How quiet is your setup?

Is it possible to still pedal if your battery runs dead, or are the cogging losses of the motor too much? If you plan to be able to operate it on pedal only, you may want to switch to a 32-11T rear, and install a triple up front(perhaps 38-60T) with a front derailleur that will work(I've been told by Utah Trikes a Microshift Mezzo will work with the short front derailleur post and the Suntour XCT 22-32-44T crank I installed, and it is on its way for me to try out).

 

[chvidgov.bc.ca]

Not sure if it helps as each trike is a bit different, but on my Performer etrike - a very similar build to yours, with batteries under the seat, and rear direct drive hub motor, I find that 1/16" toe-in is just right. Either side of that even a 1/16th affects the handling. You got it right with your battery excellent battery placement, no batteries on the rack. Your ride looks pretty tight. I don't use PAS on mine, just the throttle. Another note: half of an old rabbit ears (extensible) makes a good measuring stick for the front and backs of the two sides of the trike for measuring toe. Also, measure it with yourself sitting on the trike, as extra weight affects the measurement a bit. I sit on my trike, then take the front of tire to front of tire measure with the rabbit ear, then transfer that rabbit ear extension setting to the back tire/back tire position (at the same level above ground for the two measurements) for comparison. It lets you measure small variances in toe. I rarely if ever reset my toe unless I have to replace my tie-rod end ball joints, which now and then develop a little play over time. Also, depending on the handedness of your tie rod ends, your toe adjustments may be incremental by half turns of one tie rod end, or continuous which gives you better adjustability, while potentially getting out of adjustment now and then - mine is the former, so the toe-in "sticks" once adjusted.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Thanks guys. No rabbit ears but maybe a curtain rod. I will try it sitting with all of my weight in the seat.

 

[adam333]

I usually target between 1/16" and 1/8" toe in.

 

[calfeetwenty]

Wow this has been interesting. I just got done adjusting the toe. It took me a while before I was happy with it. It was toed out with no weight on the trike so I set it up but when I sat on it, it changed a lot.

I decided to do the adjustment with all of my weight on the seat and my feet on the pedals. This made the job a bit more difficult. I finally got done with a setting of 1/16th toe in and tightened everything up and rechecked.

Here is the kicker. When I get out of the trike the toe in moves to toe out by 5/16ths of an inch. So I move from a 1/16th in to a 1/4 out just by getting out of the trike. I should be going on a long ride Friday and or Saturday. I will report back then. I am going to check out this trail. https://www.floridastateparks.org/parks-and-trails/general-james-van-fleet-state-trail

 

[calfeetwenty]

ToeCutter wanted to know how quiet this ride is. Well it is almost silent. I don't think you can hear it from more than a few feet away. I can sneak up on dogs. :lol:

 

[The Toecutter]

Wow this has been interesting. I just got done adjusting the toe. It took me a while before I was happy with it. It was toed out with no weight on the trike so I set it up but when I sat on it, it changed a lot.

I decided to do the adjustment with all of my weight on the seat and my feet on the pedals. This made the job a bit more difficult. I finally got done with a setting of 1/16th toe in and tightened everything up and rechecked.

Here is the kicker. When I get out of the trike the toe in moves to toe out by 5/16ths of an inch. So I move from a 1/16th in to a 1/4 out just by getting out of the trike. I should be going on a long ride Friday and or Saturday. I will report back then. I am going to check out this trail. https://www.floridastateparks.org/parks-and-trails/general-james-van-fleet-state-trail

What pressure do you have your shocks set at? You may need more air pressure. Seat position also matters.

My toe-in doesn't change at all with me on vs off the trike. Being only 140 lbs helps with that as well. After well over 10,000 miles of use, my toe-in has not changed from when I first installed the suspension.

 

[calfeetwenty]

I took the air shocks out and installed some DNM spring units. I felt as though the friction damping in the air shocks was to stiff. I tightened the springs to the point where I wouldn't notice a dip on sharp lane changes. "I know not very scientific".

I brought the air-shocks to Florida with me because I have been thinking of putting them back on...….I don't know. I should put on a few hundred miles before I make any other changes though. Do you think I should put the air shocks back on?