wyvernwaddell
1 W
Anyone know what the phase and halls would be for a BMC V4C to a 12 fet infineon controller from Grin Cyclery http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_controllers.php. This one-C7240-NC .
Known to Work Brushless Motor/Controller Wiring Diagrams
- Thread starter fechter
- Start date
Tommy L
100 kW
I received a Grin Infineon based controller 7225A from Methods. Wiring it to a 9C 2810.
This was a personal controller of Methods. He might have rewired the controller to have matching colors.
Match up the colors was the smoothest forward rotation.
For info purpose: I had the 9C2810 open and the Hall colors are:
Hall "A" Blue
Hall "B" Yellow
Hall "C" Green
Tommy L sends.... \\m//
This was a personal controller of Methods. He might have rewired the controller to have matching colors.
Match up the colors was the smoothest forward rotation.
For info purpose: I had the 9C2810 open and the Hall colors are:
Hall "A" Blue
Hall "B" Yellow
Hall "C" Green
Tommy L sends.... \\m//
Kingfish
100 MW
I completely forgot about this thread. Please allow me to convey the information in a different format rather than using Color.
I have two 9C clone hub motors and they are wired in opposite directions. However they share two basic properties and that is the physical Ordering of the Halls and Phase connections inside the hub motor. Even though both of my motors are from the same supplier/clone distributor and manufactured at the same place, the Wire Colors are different for Channels A-B-C. I therefore tender this solution as being Color-agnostic, and it should work for any 3-Phase controller and motor.
Caveat: This wiring theory requires knowledge of the Phase ID to Color of each device as provided by the manufacturer, or be able to deduce the Phase ID to Color by removing covers and accessing the contents.
Terminology:
Hall Effect Wiring Order:
In this image, Halls are ordered from Left-to-Right as: A-B-C, therefore Blue = A, Yellow = B, and Green = C. The colors can be named in any order, however the positions of the sensors remain the same. We can make the exact same observation with the Phase Wiring Order.
PCB version of Halls Wiring. In this image, Yellow = A, Green = B, and Blue = C. Red is +5V and Black is GND.
Phase Wiring Order:
Stock OEM: From Left-to-Right, Blue = A, Yellow = B, and Green = C.
Same motor, phase wires upgraded and stator cleaned of rust prior to varnishing.
The Phase wires are mounted in the same order as the Halls on the opposite side. From Left-to-Right, regardless of Color, it is A-B-C. The ordering does not change for the FH or the RH. The direction of rotation is determined by the orientation of which side (left or right) on which the Halls and Phase wires exits from the motor.
Controller Wiring Order:
Most common “Infineon” based boards are ordered exactly the same, and are clearly marked on the PCB their Phase Identification.
This is a 6-FET controller from EBikes.CA. With the FETs located at the top, the order from Left-to-Right is A-B-C, thus Yellow=A, Blue=B, and Green=C.
This is a highly modified 12-FET controller. FETs are located at the bottom so the order is upside-down, although the same: A-B-C, therefore Yellow=A, Blue=B, and Green=C.
Forwards Direction for RH:
Because we have three objects affecting ordering, it is best to keep two identical. I prefer the pairing of Halls-to-Controller and Motor-to-Controller. The order is: A-A, C-B, & B-C
Alternates that also work are: A-C, B-B, C-A, and A-B, B-A, & C-C. Just pick two and keep them equal. (Credit: Dogman)
Forwards Direction for FH:
Motor-to-Controller is A-A, B-B, & C-C. Halls-to-Controller is B-A, C-B, & A-C. You can swap these so that Halls are A-A, B-B, & C-C, and Motor is B-A, C-B, & A-C and it will still work.
Conclusions:
For 9C (and possibly the Crystalite) motor, Phase and Halls are ordered exactly the same. In addition, the Color assigned to the Phase and Halls is also identical within the motor. However, we often don’t know what Color relationship to Phase/Halls will be without physical inspection or overtly tagged by the manufacturer.
We cannot make blanket generalizations that all motors from 9C et al will always have the same Color-to-Phase relationship. For instance, I ordered a FH and RH together and the respective colors were different. However – regardless of color, once we know the mapping for each item, the pattern for forwards rotation is exactly the same, and the only other dependence will be position of the motor, albeit FH or RH.
Good luck, KF
I have two 9C clone hub motors and they are wired in opposite directions. However they share two basic properties and that is the physical Ordering of the Halls and Phase connections inside the hub motor. Even though both of my motors are from the same supplier/clone distributor and manufactured at the same place, the Wire Colors are different for Channels A-B-C. I therefore tender this solution as being Color-agnostic, and it should work for any 3-Phase controller and motor.
Caveat: This wiring theory requires knowledge of the Phase ID to Color of each device as provided by the manufacturer, or be able to deduce the Phase ID to Color by removing covers and accessing the contents.
Terminology:
- Controller (C)
- Hall Effect Sensors (H)
- Motor (M)
- Front Hub (FH), wires exit right side.
- Rear Hub (RH), wires exit left side.
- With exception to FH & RH physical layout, and on how the Halls are mounted (directly or via small PCB), the physical wiring order is exactly the same when looking down the axle on the wire-side.
Hall Effect Wiring Order:
In this image, Halls are ordered from Left-to-Right as: A-B-C, therefore Blue = A, Yellow = B, and Green = C. The colors can be named in any order, however the positions of the sensors remain the same. We can make the exact same observation with the Phase Wiring Order.
PCB version of Halls Wiring. In this image, Yellow = A, Green = B, and Blue = C. Red is +5V and Black is GND.
Phase Wiring Order:
Stock OEM: From Left-to-Right, Blue = A, Yellow = B, and Green = C.
Same motor, phase wires upgraded and stator cleaned of rust prior to varnishing.
The Phase wires are mounted in the same order as the Halls on the opposite side. From Left-to-Right, regardless of Color, it is A-B-C. The ordering does not change for the FH or the RH. The direction of rotation is determined by the orientation of which side (left or right) on which the Halls and Phase wires exits from the motor.
Controller Wiring Order:
Most common “Infineon” based boards are ordered exactly the same, and are clearly marked on the PCB their Phase Identification.
This is a 6-FET controller from EBikes.CA. With the FETs located at the top, the order from Left-to-Right is A-B-C, thus Yellow=A, Blue=B, and Green=C.
This is a highly modified 12-FET controller. FETs are located at the bottom so the order is upside-down, although the same: A-B-C, therefore Yellow=A, Blue=B, and Green=C.
Forwards Direction for RH:
Because we have three objects affecting ordering, it is best to keep two identical. I prefer the pairing of Halls-to-Controller and Motor-to-Controller. The order is: A-A, C-B, & B-C
Alternates that also work are: A-C, B-B, C-A, and A-B, B-A, & C-C. Just pick two and keep them equal. (Credit: Dogman)
Forwards Direction for FH:
Motor-to-Controller is A-A, B-B, & C-C. Halls-to-Controller is B-A, C-B, & A-C. You can swap these so that Halls are A-A, B-B, & C-C, and Motor is B-A, C-B, & A-C and it will still work.
Conclusions:
For 9C (and possibly the Crystalite) motor, Phase and Halls are ordered exactly the same. In addition, the Color assigned to the Phase and Halls is also identical within the motor. However, we often don’t know what Color relationship to Phase/Halls will be without physical inspection or overtly tagged by the manufacturer.
We cannot make blanket generalizations that all motors from 9C et al will always have the same Color-to-Phase relationship. For instance, I ordered a FH and RH together and the respective colors were different. However – regardless of color, once we know the mapping for each item, the pattern for forwards rotation is exactly the same, and the only other dependence will be position of the motor, albeit FH or RH.
Good luck, KF
Kiwi
1 kW
EM3ev, cellman controller to 9C motor
Swap green and blue hall.
Swap green and blue hall.
Kiwi
1 kW
John in CR
100 TW
Those change of direction instructions may work with some motor/controller combinations, but it does not guarantee victory, because it's not all. The ES Wiki describes the best and easiest way to find the proper wiring for any 3 phase motor with hall sensor timing. All ebikers should learn this because consistency of color coding can never be trusted.
motomech
10 MW
Standard Q100 (8.1:1 reduction ratio) w\ Grin\Infineon 6-FET.
Phase; all colors match.
Halls; all colors match
Phase; all colors match.
Halls; all colors match
Motenergy ME0913 Rev. B + Infinion 18 fet 4110 controller from em3ev
Phase: Hall:
Yellow = U Yellow = White
Blue = V Blue = Blue
Green = W Green = Green
U,V and W is what is stamped on the motor. Each letter is next to the phase wire of the motor.
Hope this helps anyone out, I did it the hard way and it took me hours to figure out the combination. My pain is your gain or so they say.......
Enjoy!
Phase: Hall:
Yellow = U Yellow = White
Blue = V Blue = Blue
Green = W Green = Green
U,V and W is what is stamped on the motor. Each letter is next to the phase wire of the motor.
Hope this helps anyone out, I did it the hard way and it took me hours to figure out the combination. My pain is your gain or so they say.......
Enjoy!
docnjoj
1 GW
Interesting. Now I know why my Xoingda at 8:1 in low gear starts off pretty well. High is about 4:1 and also starts off fairly well.Thanks and now back to our regularly scheduled topic.motomech said:
otherDoc
jumpjack
100 W
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2011
- Messages
- 197
I have two scooters:
* Zem Star 45, 1500W/60V
* Ecojumbo 5000, 5000W/60V
Ecojumbo controller got burnt.
I'd like to replace it by Zem controller, just for testing purposes.
But the two controllers have different wirings.
So I have some questions:
1 - what does it happens if I mis-connect phase wires/cables? Motor does not start, starts in reverse or burns up?
2 - how do I identify the "turn on" wire of the controller?
3 - how to verify if motor is burnt or working?
Zem controller has these cables:
a) 5 power cables
b) 5-wires connector (hall)
c) 3 wires connector (throttle?)
d) 1-wire connector (?)
e) 1-wire connector (?)
f) 1-wire connector (purple wire 1 )
g) 1-wire connector (purple wire 2)
f) and g) are the speed limiter: when shorted, speed is limited to 45 kmh.
Ecojumbo controller has these cables:
a) 5 power cables
b) 5-wires connector (hall)
c) 3-wires connector (throttle?)
d) 2-wires connector (?)
There are no labels on the controllers, so no way to search for datasheets.
* Zem Star 45, 1500W/60V
* Ecojumbo 5000, 5000W/60V
Ecojumbo controller got burnt.
I'd like to replace it by Zem controller, just for testing purposes.
But the two controllers have different wirings.
So I have some questions:
1 - what does it happens if I mis-connect phase wires/cables? Motor does not start, starts in reverse or burns up?
2 - how do I identify the "turn on" wire of the controller?
3 - how to verify if motor is burnt or working?
Zem controller has these cables:
a) 5 power cables
b) 5-wires connector (hall)
c) 3 wires connector (throttle?)
d) 1-wire connector (?)
e) 1-wire connector (?)
f) 1-wire connector (purple wire 1 )
g) 1-wire connector (purple wire 2)
f) and g) are the speed limiter: when shorted, speed is limited to 45 kmh.
Ecojumbo controller has these cables:
a) 5 power cables
b) 5-wires connector (hall)
c) 3-wires connector (throttle?)
d) 2-wires connector (?)
There are no labels on the controllers, so no way to search for datasheets.
orcasmarx@yahoo.com
10 µW
motomech
10 MW
Nice test rig!
dingoEsride
100 kW
dingoEsride
100 kW
Thanks, thats an awsome app. with some searching I found an english version I'll post back when I get it working
dingoEsride
100 kW
The Chinese Electrocar with a 9c clone, colour for colour and take your pick with the green, goes something like this....
and English diagram, make sure to connect power to switch top red wire
and English diagram, make sure to connect power to switch top red wire
Hi,
Does anyone know the correct combination for an 18 FET sinewave controller from PowerVelocity connecting to a BMC 600T hub motor?
I did the following, with no response:
Controller / Motor
For the phase wires-
Yellow/ Yellow
Blue / Blue
Green / Green
For the hall sensor wires-
Yellow / Yellow
Blue / Blue
Green / Green
Red / Red
Black / Black
Thanks for any assistance.
Tim
Does anyone know the correct combination for an 18 FET sinewave controller from PowerVelocity connecting to a BMC 600T hub motor?
I did the following, with no response:
Controller / Motor
For the phase wires-
Yellow/ Yellow
Blue / Blue
Green / Green
For the hall sensor wires-
Yellow / Yellow
Blue / Blue
Green / Green
Red / Red
Black / Black
Thanks for any assistance.
Tim
alsmith
100 kW
You did connect the ignition wire? (no disrespect- it has happened!). Otherwise go through the diagram posted above (by Kiwi » Fri May 24, 2013 1:43 am). When you find the right combination please post it here for the general knowledge as someone else may have the same issue at some time. Cheers.
alsmith said:
I too was thinking this may have been the fundamental problem- no power to the circuit. Ok, I'm sounding really, really stoopid here in front of an audience of experienced electrical circuit builders, but, now that I have identified the ignition wire- how do I "connect" it? ie I by a single pole throw switch? and just run a lead to an earth?
I did a bit of digging on this and looks like the Micah e-bike school website recommends installing a relay as well for current over 20a (I have 15a/h batteries, so I may be able to get away without a relay)
Thanks for any assistance!
Connect it to your battery positive. Can be permanent connection, or you can use a switch or keyswitch to use it to disable/enable your controller.timeride said:
alsmith
100 kW
timeride said:
It isn't in any direct circuit connection between the battery/ies and the the motor so only uses very low current- switches of only 1 Amp are more than enough- anything you have laying around should do the job.
I have a Qs 205 v3 motor and a infineon 24fet 4115 controller. I tried the color for color configuration and got noisy rotation and high heat buildup in the motor and controller. Using the chart i found in this thread i got a smooth quiet reverse rotation using color for color on the halls but switching to
Controller / Motor
Yellow / Blue
Green / Yellow
Blue / Green
After this it said to exchange the halls yellow and blue on the controller and the yellow and green phase on the controller once i did that i fried the controller any help would be greatly appreciated thanks?
Controller / Motor
Yellow / Blue
Green / Yellow
Blue / Green
After this it said to exchange the halls yellow and blue on the controller and the yellow and green phase on the controller once i did that i fried the controller any help would be greatly appreciated thanks?
I have a new MXUS 3k Turbo V.3 4T with a Sabvoton SVMC72100. Purchased direct from MXUS (Absolutely horrible company to deal with btw). I need the wiring schematics and confirmation of the phase/hall colors as there seems to be conflicting info on the web about colors being reversed. I'm pretty green at this ebike thing and don't want to muck this up.
Thanks much in advance.
Cheers,
D
Thanks much in advance.
Cheers,
D
The wires are not always in the same order inside either the motor (I have two MXUS and they were not the same wiring pattern for halls or phase) or controller, so you'll probably have to determine this experimentally via the info in the thread How to Determine the Wiring for a Brushless Motor.
