Kona Electric Ute Issue: Fix or Sell?

[Pigeonsonalimb]

Hey everyone,

I am new to e-bikes and new to the board...a big thanks for all the great information I've been able to track down thus far.

Here's my situation: I recently purchased a 2011 Kona Electric Ute off of Craigslist (http://2011.konaworld.com/bike.cfm?content=electric_ute). I wasn't actually looking for the electric model, but the deal was about the same price as what I was finding on the non-electric model. I found/bought the bike in Portland and pulled the trigger on it after spending the day riding it and having a blast carting my daughter around on the longtail/stoker bar set-up. The bike performed without any issues and I quickly discovered why all of you are so enthusiastic about e-bikes. I absolutely get the love-affair with 'em.

However, after hauling it home to Seattle, I've started to have a serious technical issue--the electric assist sporadically cuts out and then starts with a pretty terrible grinding/vibration, before cutting off completely. At first it was happening only after steep hills, now it's happening just about 10-15 minutes into any ride. I made a video today and was able to capture the issue better than I can describe it:

http://youtu.be/K45mWQdp8h4

It's not the greatest video out there, but there's clearly an issue with the bike. I've been in contact with Kona directly and they initially thought it might be a battery issue--I don't know much about ebikes, but this really doesn't feel like a battery issue...it feels like a motor issue. I am waiting to hear back from their tech support on Monday (so far, they've been great in responding and trying to troubleshoot).

So, I guess I've got a few questions:

-Can anyone on the board help with a diagnosis and a fix?
-Is it worth fixing?
-Or, is it worth selling to someone who will love this bike and know how to deal with it?

Any comments, suggestions, or general guidance would be much, much appreciated. Also, if you are personally interested in the bike, let me know...I really love it...but loved it a whole lot more before this issue popped up. Someone with the know-how might be able to fix this and score a pretty awesome electric cargo bike.

 

[amberwolf]

The most likely issue is a hall wire is damaged, if it is a sensored motor. Could be right at the axle exit, or it could be at the connector to the controller.

Phase wires could also have the problem, but this would be more likely to not work at all, rather than just grind.

Could be overheating and a hall sensor failing to give the right signal, if it happens only after a period of heavy use, but if it's anytime or only normal use it shouldnt'.

If it's a geared motor, possibly a mechanical issue with them.


There is some information in the wiki (see my signature) about troubleshooting halls and phases (links to threads mostly), and lots and lots of troulbeshooting threads about such things with various types of motors on many people's bikes.

 

[neptronix]

Hard to tell.
Maybe bearings, maybe halls, maybe gears if it's geared, shoot, it would be hard to diagnose without seeing.

I'd take it to someone who knows these things. If it's the motor, then that can be replaced.
Yes, it's worth fixing.
Yes, it's worth money to someone. Longtails are awesome when powered properly.

 

[Pigeonsonalimb]

Thanks for the quick feedback, everyone. I really appreciate it.

Anyone know the best place to take it in Seattle to get this figured out?

Also, total newbie question: let's say it is the motor and it needs to be replaced, what's something like that more-or-less run in terms of parts/service?

 

[neptronix]

Thanks for the quick feedback, everyone. I really appreciate it.

Anyone know the best place to take it in Seattle to get this figured out?

Also, total newbie question: let's say it is the motor and it needs to be replaced, what's something like that more-or-less run in terms of parts/service?

Don't have an answer for the first question but switching out a hub motor is easy. In fact you could just order another hub motor kit, maybe one which is more powerful, and install it on your current bike, using the current battery.

ebike kits range from $150-$600 depending on what you're looking for. Perhaps you can find a local ebike shop in seattle which can check to see if your battery is still good.

There wouldn't be any harm in opening up your motor at this point though, you might find the answer as to what's troubling it.

 

[dogman dan]

I would say fix it, but don't fix the existing motor unless it's just an easy to fix wiring problem. A battery issue in addition to the other problem is pretty likely too. Battery might be causing the cutouts, then the grinding is another thing.


Just my opinion, but putting a tiny gearmotor that small on a big cargo bike, somebody was a real moron. Like putting a 50cc moped motor in a car. It's just getting a lot of load. It might have messed up the gears inside, if two people rode that bike.

Do look at some wiring stuff, it might fix as easy as figuring out one wire contact backed out of a plug, causing an intermittent loss of contact. Check all 8 wires leading to the motor for nicks or cuts too.

What would make that bike an ideal electric utility cargo hauler is the trike kit from the US based vendor E-BikeKit. It's a medium powerful gearless front hub motor, but in a slower than usual winding. This makes it ideal for slower riding, but ability to haul big loads up hills.

It's the same thing I have on my commuting bikes. Idealy, run it on 48v though, because at 36v is IS slow, like 15 mph top speed. But It's truly the ideal replacement motor for your bike, or any big cargo bike. It will haul two people, or any other 150 pound load on the deck of that bike.

 

[mabman]

There is an e bike specific shop in Ballard but I can't remember the name of it? They should be able to help you out.

 

[Drunkskunk]

The motor on that bike is an 8fun. They aren't too expensive to replace. Is that motor getting hotto the touch before it starts cutting out?
If the motor is getting hot before the problem, then the problem is likely inside the motor. otherwise, there is an equil chance that it's an external wiring issue.
Its dramaticly undersized for a cargo bike. generaly you'll want a minimum 500 watt motor for moving cargo.

 

[Pigeonsonalimb]

It does not appear to be getting noticeably hot, but I'll mimic the problem and double check.

Another quick question: the original owner mentioned that Kona had to replace the computer once before. I didn't think twice about it--she said it was now taken care of. Could this be something like that?

Everyone's answers have been extremely helpful and I am quickly starting to realize that the root of the problem could be just about anything.

I really appreciate the time people take to help out and the enthusiasm on this board.

 

[neptronix]

An 8fun.. you mean one of the 250w jobbies? :lol:

Bet someone paid an extra $1000 just for the privledge.. :lol:

 

[amberwolf]

Another quick question: the original owner mentioned that Kona had to replace the computer once before. I didn't think twice about it--she said it was now taken care of. Could this be something like that?

If by "computer" you mean "motor controller" then yes, if either it's FETs are overheating or ti's hall wires internally or at it's connector are not making good connection all the time.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Kona's site says it's a 8fun 24 volt 250w pedal assist with throttle. I'm sort of shocked that Kona would put that on the Ute.

Your best bet for getting it worked on is a Kona dealer.

 

[neptronix]

Kona's site says it's a 8fun 24 volt 250w pedal assist with throttle. I'm sort of shocked that Kona would put that on the Ute.

Your best bet for getting it worked on is a Kona dealer.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I can imagine him taking it to Kona and them saying that a replacement motor is $500...
Meanwhile you can buy the same motor on BMSBattery for what, $100..

 

[Drunkskunk]

possably. I didn't mention, and I should have... 2 year warrenty on the Ebikes from Kona. a 2011 might still be in warenty, depending on it's purchase date, and Kona usualy is good about standing behind there stuff.


But if it was my bike, I'd be putting a HT3525 in the rear and a real battery in the frame.

 

[neptronix]

Oh i didn't know that. Yeah, he might be in luck, if there isn't trickery with the warranty.

 

[Pigeonsonalimb]

Couple of things:

-first, I spoke to the original owner. Although she did have issues with the controller, it was never anything major--just the digital display.

-second, I am pretty sure Kona is not going to honor a warranty on a bike bought off Craigslist...although I have been emailing with a tech and he is helping to troubleshoot the problem. He initially thought it might be a battery issue, thinking it might be the result of the bike "hibernating" for a few months without being charged (which I was able to confirm was indeed the case.

I did however manage to track down the name of a Kona dealer in Seattle who stocks the brand's ebikes (Alki bike and Board). I also got the name of a guy who specializes in converting cargo bikes to electric (Liontail Cycles).

...gonna try 'em both tomorrow and see what they think. I am really hoping for a simple, cheap fix...not sure I can manage a 400-500$ major modification on top of what I already paid for the bike.

I hope it all works out...again, if anyone knows anyone in the NW who might be interested in buying it (and actually has the time, know-how, and desire), let me know. After reading everyone's posts, it's clear there are some great solutions out there to make this thing an adequately powered and pretty sweet cargo bike...I am just not sure I can pull it off right now. I'd definitely be open to offers if someone is looking for a new project to take home.

 

[MadRhino]

You should buy the ebike tester from Lyen. It is cheap and you will have it by mail in a short time.
You should always look at wiring and connectors first, most of the time it is a 15 min repair.
Then, carrying a passenger with a small motor is likely to be making some heat somewhere.

I agree that you should think about better power.

 

[Icewrench]

Sounds like a poor connection on one of the phase wires to me. Maybe.
If there is a warranty available take advantage of it.
I`ve been e biking a few years and would be willing to have a look at it if no other options work out.
I work in the U District on Roosevelt. Send a pm for contact info if interested.

 

[Pigeonsonalimb]

Thanks so much for the offer...I am going to see what I can find out from Kona and a few of the other shops folks have pointed me to first..but, I might very well have to take you up on the kind offer.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, have somebody experienced look at it. It could be as simple as jiggling a plug. But be cautious about what you let them sell you.

The wrong guy could jiggle the plug, then sell you a new controller. I got that lesson from motorcycle mechanics at age 16. Got sold new parts 3 times when it was just a loose wire.

Chances are, the battery is also a problem, but not usually the source of the stutter. sitting all winter without a recharge can kill a battery. If it's recoverable, it's done by putting it on the charger and leaving it on the charger for a week or more.

 

[Ykick]

Members from this forum stretch far & wide. There are many of us that can help people in these situations. If not an entire repair, at least to help qualify and locate suitable resources to fix these often minor issues.

I suggest posting a thread in the wanted section for the repair by somebody in your local area. This way, our group of established users may be able to help qualify persons interested in doing such repair work. I'd refrain from anybody out of the blue - however, somebody known by ES "elders" could be a good contact to get you over this bump in the road.

Personally, I don't seek such out such work but I'm always available and willing to help somebody out if the logistics can be made to work.