Latest information on RC systems (HV160 use mainly)

[recumpence]

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to share what I have learned in extensive testing over the last few months. This is primarily regarding the HV160 controller.

I installed the 160s on my big yellow trike and promptly began beating the crap out of them. I eventually blew 4 controllers and have learned a few things;

#1 Do NOT try using these for regen. Though they will pump power back into the pack, they also blow very easily with power back feeding into them.

#2 If running a Astro motor, set the PWM at 24khz. This eases the current ripple and lowers controller heat.

#3 Keep the ripple under 5 volts for sure, 3 volts is ideal (or less).

#4 Set the throttle response at a low number. I like #1. This gives a ramp-up feel to the throttle, thus lowering the ripple and increasing ridability in especially powerful systems. It also reduces driveline abuse by bringing the power on less abruptly.

#5 Set the current limt at 160 amps. At this setting (it is the lowest setting), the controller will still see 220 amp peaks. But, not for long and the controller will shut down to protect itself if needed.

#6 Added caps are really only needed below 5kw if very good cells and wiring are used. Keep an eye on the ripple and add caps if it exceeds 3 volts max.

#7 These controllers are very reliable with high impedance motors. For instance, if running a 3210 ten turn motor is almost impossible to blow a 160. Conversely, my 4 turn Delta 3220s were a bit much and would eventually blow the 160 if I stayed on the power more than a few seconds at a time. 6 turn Deltas are totally safe to run. 5 turn Deltas are "The Edge" so to speak.

#8 The data logging on these controllers is AWESOME! I love it! It is very well thought out and extremely useful. If you have a HV160 and do not use the logging, learn it and use it!

Anyway, I think that is about it.

Oh, also, I just ordered a bunch of 10 turn 3210s from astro. This will be my motor of choice to stock. I hope to have a continual stock of them on hand for immediate shipping for those who cannot wait a couple months for a motor and/or drive unit. The reason I opted to stock this motor is multi facetted. For one thing, the 3210 is innexpensive. Second, it is still good for 4+kw. That is plenty for nearly all applications. Third, the KV (at 50 volts) is about perfect for a single stage reduction to a second stage final drive. Lastly, that motor is pretty much idiot-proof. You can just hook it up with a HV160 and pretty much forget about reliability problems. It is also a very efficiency setup.

Anyway, I think that is it for now. I will keep you posted on any other tips I learn.

Matt

 

[buzzfirst]

Damn dude you blew 4 of them up. I would faint if I killed one. Anyway thanks for sharing your knowledge with others here. It's definitely going to keep folks from getting discouraged with ebikes.

 

[liveforphysics]

I also think the 10-turn is a great match for RC controllers. Builds BEMF quick to enable sync at lower RPMs, and has a decent winding resistance and inductance to keep the Dv/Di rate from being so high the FETs convert to smoke.

 

[AussieJester]

Damn dude you blew 4 of them up. I would faint if I killed one. Anyway thanks for sharing your knowledge with others here. It's definitely going to keep folks from getting discouraged with ebikes.

I asked Matt about this when i got my hv160 and all but one was blown by
for a severe lack of a better wording..."user error"... I think they are excellent controller
something so small but yet so damn powerful.

I'm with Matt regarding data logging simply fantastic feature. I just need to get the current
ripple under controller and i am set...Will be working on this some more this arvo
as "testing" of new gear ratios Matt sent me continues -->insert evil EV Grin<---

KiM

 

[voicecoils]

Thanks for that succinct info Matt.

A number of us are beginning to appreciate that finding a rock solid BLDC motor & controller combination is not always a trivial task.

I'll keep this in mind for future builds.

Astro 10 turn 3210 paired with HV160

Thanks for your willingness to share what you find in testing.

In the same vein, I've benefited from Ilia at eBikes-SF's testing of the BMC V2-S and Crystalyte analog 24-72v35A controller, which I've found to be a reliable combo.

 

[Miles]

Thanks for sharing, Matt.

Absolutely agree on the Astro 3210 10t http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=68464#p68464

You've achieved so much in the 2 years since that thread whereas I'm still playing around designing things on the computer.... I haven't committed a single design to production, yet...

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Matt,

For one thing, the 3210 is inexpensive. Second, it is still good for 4+kw. That is plenty for nearly all applications.

You just violated a personal rule of Gandhi's :

Gandhi

A woman brought her son to Gandhi and told him that her son ate too much sugar.

Gandhi asked her to return with her son in 3 days.

When they returned Gandhi told the boy "Don't eat sugar!"

The mother said "why didn't you say that three days ago?"

Gandhi said "3 days ago I was eating sugar myself!"

Your own low power high efficiency build is the Catrike with the 7 turn 3220.

 

[recumpence]

Yup, I just had that motor lying around. So, I figured I would use it.

Hmm, I wonder where I got it from?

Matt

 

[olaf-lampe]

#6 Added caps are really only needed below 5kw if very good cells and wiring are used. Keep an eye on the ripple and add caps if it exceeds 3 volts max.

Matt

Hi Matt,
you sure meant above 5kW?!
Why is it recommended for very good cells? I was thinking that good cells keep down the ripple themselves? I agree with the wiring, of course.
Do you have a list of favourite capacitor brands with low ESR and good quality?

Thanks for sharing
Olaf

 

[SoSauty]

Yes,

6 Added caps are really only needed below 5kw if very good cells and wiring are used. Keep an eye on the ripple and add caps if it exceeds 3 volts max.

quip#6 concerns me as well.

[I'm having a hard time with these high amp draw numbers, an Astro3210 likes 17-19amps for efficiency and I read 50amp produces peak torque for the 10 turn motor. So does the motor need or ordinarily draw 100+amps? I'd have a much clearer understanding if I knew some under load numbers for this motor.

If you hit the throttle, with 44V Lipos and HV160, roughly, what would the motor amp draw peak around, 60 or 160amp?
What amperage does it require, (ballpark numbers) say reduced 10:1 to hold a 26" wheel 500rpm or 40mph, 40amp or much higher?*] Sorry, not quite sure where to ask this :|

Your comment that HV160s should hold up with Astro3210 is reassuring, but do I need to protect with extra caps? By the way, thank you for providing the initial info in this thread, most helpful.

 

[mwkeefer]

Matt,

There is just one bit I don't see addressed here... the 10T Astro 3210 (kv 135) may be perfect for the HV160 but what if to acheive more initial torque and higher top speeds, we reterminated or switched from Wye to Delta. Yes that would reduce the kT but at the same time give quite a higher top RPM for the available 50v with those RC controllers?

Any ideas, comments or observations?

-Mike

 

[recumpence]

Yes, Delta/Wye switching is fantastically useful, assuming you switch with throttle off (and, preferably without the motor spinnign at all). I have not done enough research on a suitable triple pole, double throw switch that can handle the power, though. I am sure they are out there.

I will be stocking 6 wire Astros for just this purpose (they are ordered, just waiting on delivery).

Matt