The first and BEST Qulbix Raptor mid-drive build!

[recumpence]

24,000 watts helps.

 

[Rix]

24,000 watts helps.

Yah, I imagine it does. I think bursting 24kw through my hubmotor, would drastically reduce the life span. Hell 11kw gets it warm pretty quick, thats not even half what you got going on.

 

[madin88]

24,000 watts helps.

Yah, I imagine it does. I think bursting 24kw through my hubmotor, would drastically reduce the life span. Hell 11kw gets it warm pretty quick, thats not even half what you got going on.

while with hubmotors a big part of the input power is turned into heat when accelerating hard, on those drives the power is transferred to the wheel at the main part.
THAT would make scared when riding it :lol:

 

[recumpence]

I have to say; setting up and tuning these systems requires very specific knowledge and skill gleaned over years of experience (screwing things up, blowing controllers, ruining bearings and belts, etc). This bike is the pinicle of all I have learned. What I mean by that is not so much that the performance is the highest I have ever had (though it is close), but that I have learned how to setup these systems up and program the controllers to make the performance accessible and controllable. This bike exibits the best balance of performance and ride-ability. It is super powerful without being uncontrollable.

 

[Rix]

I have to say; setting up and tuning these systems requires very specific knowledge and skill gleaned over years of experience (screwing things up, blowing controllers, ruining bearings and belts, etc). This bike is the pinicle of all I have learned. What I mean by that is not so much that the performance is the highest I have ever had (though it is close), but that I have learned how to setup these systems up and program the controllers to make the performance accessible and controllable. This bike exibits the best balance of performance and ride-ability. It is super powerful without being uncontrollable.

And thats where its at, trial and error, and learning from it. And you have mastered the mid drive power option. I have the ability to ride 60+HP 450 MXs , so I know what being on the edge of out of control is all about. Don't get me wrong, I am no Ronnie Renner, but I can ride a 450 on even the tightest of trails and make it work. I imagine with the much lighter weight, and big watts you are pulling, it would a similar ride. BRRRAAAPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[recumpence]

You know, it's a funny thing, most mechanical and electrical devices can prove to be very reliable if properly set up. Jay Leno mentions repeatedly in his videos that exotic cars such as Lamborghinis and Ferraris can be very reliable if properly set up and properly maintained. I consider these Astro Drive systems that way. If properly set up they can be very reliable while remaining lightweight and super powerful as well as very efficient. RC based systems get a bad rap primarily because people who set them up incorrectly or build them incorrectly to begin with complain that RC Systems will not work properly or will not work reliably. However, as I just mentioned, if properly set up they are powerful very efficient very lightweight and very reliable at the same time.

 

[Rix]

Thats the truth, hell even a properly jetted motorcycle (Carburetor) can make the difference in how often a piston and rings need to be changed.

On another note, it just occurred to me, your Raptor weight around 125# and pumping out 24KW or about 31-32HP approximately, and a full on MX 450 weighs around 242# ready to race and pumps out about 60HP at 4000 feet elevations. Your power to weight ratio is about identical Sweet!

 

[macribs]

I think for the power to weight ratio Matt might have been higher on previous build. Iirc the bike in his avatar was triple astro 3220

Another lightweight yet very powerful bike is the top secret build that Toolman2 did with the joby motor. Still waiting for him to share more on that one :lol: He did actually race that bike and outrun 450cc on a "speedway" track, and in another video he was racing a dirt/gras track and overtaking all the gas gusslers coming in as #1.

 

[Rix]

I think for the power to weight ratio Matt might have been higher on previous build. Iirc the bike in his avatar was triple astro 3220

Another lightweight yet very powerful bike is the top secret build that Toolman2 did with the joby motor. Still waiting for him to share more on that one :lol: He did actually race that bike and outrun 450cc on a "speedway" track, and in another video he was racing a dirt/gras track and overtaking all the gas gusslers coming in as #1.

DAMN! I want to see that too!

 

[madin88]

RC based systems get a bad rap primarily because people who set them up incorrectly or build them incorrectly to begin with complain that RC Systems will not work properly or will not work reliably. However, as I just mentioned, if properly set up they are powerful very efficient very lightweight and very reliable at the same time.

Only problem i see with RC based drives is the lack of real torque control.
have you thought about trying a VESC controller? Version 6 is available soon, and it has FOC control.
It "only" can do something like 2-3kW, but maybe it is possible to modify the power stage for your demands

 

[macribs]

I think for the power to weight ratio Matt might have been higher on previous build. Iirc the bike in his avatar was triple astro 3220

Another lightweight yet very powerful bike is the top secret build that Toolman2 did with the joby motor. Still waiting for him to share more on that one :lol: He did actually race that bike and outrun 450cc on a "speedway" track, and in another video he was racing a dirt/gras track and overtaking all the gas gusslers coming in as #1.

DAMN! I want to see that too!

Yeah we are not the only ones
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74585

Link to one of toolman2's joby video in the 1post. You find a few more when on youtube.

 

[recumpence]

RC based systems get a bad rap primarily because people who set them up incorrectly or build them incorrectly to begin with complain that RC Systems will not work properly or will not work reliably. However, as I just mentioned, if properly set up they are powerful very efficient very lightweight and very reliable at the same time.

Only problem i see with RC based drives is the lack of real torque control.
have you thought about trying a VESC controller? Version 6 is available soon, and it has FOC control.
It "only" can do something like 2-3kW, but maybe it is possible to modify the power stage for your demands

The CA3 can be setup for RC systems. I have one RC bike setup with the CA. It works great when setup properly. However, it is a very time consuming proposition installing and programming it. Also, the CA dampens the throttle response. You lose the "Snap" that is so great with RC drives when using the CA.

I prefer a standard PWM throttle and the sharp response it provides for most of my builds.

 

[Rix]

I think for the power to weight ratio Matt might have been higher on previous build. Iirc the bike in his avatar was triple astro 3220

Another lightweight yet very powerful bike is the top secret build that Toolman2 did with the joby motor. Still waiting for him to share more on that one :lol: He did actually race that bike and outrun 450cc on a "speedway" track, and in another video he was racing a dirt/gras track and overtaking all the gas gusslers coming in as #1.

DAMN! I want to see that too![

Yeah we are not the only ones
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74585

Link to one of toolman2's joby video in the 1post. You find a few more when on youtube.[/quote]

Just checked this out, that bike can rip. he was owning the gassers in the tight stuff.

 

[recumpence]

One thing to remember when discussing power and weight;

There is an important facet of vehicle dynamics called balance. The chassis, brakes, and suspension must balance each other out to maximize the driving (or riding) experience. A little overpowered can be fun. But, there is such a thing as being too powerful fire general day to day use. This seems especially important in two wheeled vehicles. In my builds (and my preference), 10 pounds per HP is a great ratio. My Motoped and this Raptor hit that number (with my 180 pound body on board). This combined with a 40mph top speed gearing makes for a wonderful, thrilling, extremely fun combination without being stupidly over powered and hard to ride. And even then, these bikes are only rideable because of clever programming in the controllers to tame the hit a little bit.

3 motors was downright dangerous on that small 80 pound bike.

In fact, I have found my 50 pound, 6kw peak power Mountaincycle nearly perfectly balanced geared for 30mph hot of the charger.

Matt

 

[Kepler]

My FUTR 29'er fits into those power to weight parameters. Its a beast that needs to be treated with respect or it will bite you. But as you say, its not crazy power and a very enjoyable and exhilarating bike to ride. Of cause not the same balance as mid drive bike like yours but I think the dead silence of a sinewave controlled hub motor has its own certain appeal.

 

[Alex07]

One thing to remember when discussing power and weight;

There is an important facet of vehicle dynamics called balance. The chassis, brakes, and suspension must balance each other out to maximize the driving (or riding) experience. A little overpowered can be fun. But, there is such a thing as being too powerful fire general day to day use. This seems especially important in two wheeled vehicles. In my builds (and my preference), 10 pounds per HP is a great ratio. My Motoped and this Raptor hit that number (with my 180 pound body on board). This combined with a 40mph top speed gearing makes for a wonderful, thrilling, extremely fun combination without being stupidly over powered and hard to ride. And even then, these bikes are only rideable because of clever programming in the controllers to tame the hit a little bit.

3 motors was downright dangerous on that small 80 pound bike.

In fact, I have found my 50 pound, 6kw peak power Mountaincycle nearly perfectly balanced geared for 30mph hot of the charger.

So out off all your different setups you tried up to 18kw peak, the 6 kw peak is the perfect power for a balanced setup - when single speed geared for 30mph; then how much better would that 6kw power be with the torque multiplication of multiple gears vs fixed 1 gear? i.e on the Tangent mid drive 3220 6kw or AFT 6kw mid drive ? you theoretically would have better acceleration on take off and a better top end as well ? The hard part is making the gear system handle it, we will find out how they work soon as their is a few 6kw mid drives coming out i see on recent builds...

 

[recumpence]

One thing to remember when discussing power and weight;

There is an important facet of vehicle dynamics called balance. The chassis, brakes, and suspension must balance each other out to maximize the driving (or riding) experience. A little overpowered can be fun. But, there is such a thing as being too powerful fire general day to day use. This seems especially important in two wheeled vehicles. In my builds (and my preference), 10 pounds per HP is a great ratio. My Motoped and this Raptor hit that number (with my 180 pound body on board). This combined with a 40mph top speed gearing makes for a wonderful, thrilling, extremely fun combination without being stupidly over powered and hard to ride. And even then, these bikes are only rideable because of clever programming in the controllers to tame the hit a little bit.

3 motors was downright dangerous on that small 80 pound bike.

In fact, I have found my 50 pound, 6kw peak power Mountaincycle nearly perfectly balanced geared for 30mph hot of the charger.

So out off all your different setups you tried up to 18kw peak, the 6 kw peak is the perfect power for a balanced setup - when single speed geared for 30mph; then how much better would that 6kw power be with the torque multiplication of multiple gears vs fixed 1 gear? i.e on the Tangent mid drive 3220 6kw or AFT 6kw mid drive ? you theoretically would have better acceleration on take off and a better top end as well ? The hard part is making the gear system handle it, we will find out how they work soon as their is a few 6kw mid drives coming out i see on recent builds...

yes and no. What I'm saying is, even with lower power, you can have a well-balanced vehicle. In the case of this bike with the twin Motors it is well balanced with a slight nod toward being overpowered. That makes this particular bike a challenge to ride and allows the rider a chance to improve his skill level to match the capabilities of the bike. In the case of the six kilowatt Mountain cycle, that bike is short wheel base, very lightweight, and somewhat tall with a steeper head tube angle than this bike. It is very well-balanced with the power it has at the weight it has. It really doesn't require much skill to ride well. So, one could say it's a little boring to ride considering the fact that it's not overpowered as this bike is. But, that allows that like to be easily ridden by those who are inexperienced.

 

[Rix]

My FUTR 29'er fits into those power to weight parameters. Its a beast that needs to be treated with respect or it will bite you. But as you say, its not crazy power and a very enjoyable and exhilarating bike to ride. Of cause not the same balance as mid drive bike like yours but I think the dead silence of a sinewave controlled hub motor has its own certain appeal.

WIth you John, my Alpha build with settings turned down to about 8kw falls into the weight parameters Recumpence mentioned. Actually, about 1hp for every 9 pounds is where I am at. Really is about ideal as far as fun and ease of handling go. It will still loft the front wheel off the ground with ease.

 

[recumpence]

My FUTR 29'er fits into those power to weight parameters. Its a beast that needs to be treated with respect or it will bite you. But as you say, its not crazy power and a very enjoyable and exhilarating bike to ride. Of cause not the same balance as mid drive bike like yours but I think the dead silence of a sinewave controlled hub motor has its own certain appeal.

WIth you John, my Alpha build with settings turned down to about 8kw falls into the weight parameters Recumpence mentioned. Actually, about 1hp for every 9 pounds is where I am at. Really is about ideal as far as fun and ease of handling go. It will still loft the front wheel off the ground with ease.

In my case, I am including my body weight. I am 180 pounds, the bike is 125 pounds, and the power is roughly 30Hp peak.

 

[Kepler]

Sorry, miss understood. That is a completely different class to what i am riding at those numbers. More than triple the HP I have sounds nuts to me and must take some careful setup to tame.

 

[recumpence]

Sorry, miss understood. That is a completely different class to what i am riding at those numbers. More than triple the HP I have sounds nuts to me and must take some careful setup to tame.

Proper weight balance, correct gearing, powerful brakes, top notch suspension, and very careful controller programming combine to make this kind of power manageable.

 

[macribs]

One of the cool things about Matt's build is that he can build you your very own dream bike.
Tired of waiting for Neematic? Or fancy a high powered trike? Or maybe a quad? Have Matt build you one. And that bike will be a custom bike, your very own one-off bike. You will not see one just like yours when you mock about in the woods or do some urban hooligan riding.

 

[recumpence]

One of the cool things about Matt's build is that he can build you your very own dream bike.
Tired of waiting for Neematic? Or fancy a high powered trike? Or maybe a quad? Have Matt build you one. And that bike will be a custom bike, your very own one-off bike. You will not see one just like yours when you mock about in the woods or do some urban hooligan riding.

I think I have built 15 bikes to date and 5 of them are still in my stable. So, by my reckoning, that makes 10 bikes I have built custom to order for clients or have built for myself and sold.

 

[macribs]

I've got a large water cooler bottle where i drop my change, earmarked for a Davinci build. I've got from my wife when she got tired of hearing about your fantastic builds and how much better I could ride single tracks with such a bike. Already blown my budget for the first build I got direct orders from the queen not go wild with credit cards for a new bike, and she brought me the large water bottle

So I am literally saving my nickles and dimes :lol:

 

[Rix]

I've got a large water cooler bottle where i drop my change, earmarked for a Davinci build. I've got from my wife when she got tired of hearing about your fantastic builds and how much better I could ride single tracks with such a bike. Already blown my budget for the first build I got direct orders from the queen not go wild with credit cards for a new bike, and she brought me the large water bottle

So I am literally saving my nickles and dimes :lol:

Me too! :lol: