Ypedal
100 TW
my day job is more hazardous to my health than any battery.. regardless of type or size. ( front lines, tech support, 16 years ) 
Lead Acid battery. Explosion in this case.
- Thread starter parabellum
- Start date
circuitsmith
10 W
Hillhater said:.. you mean use a "BMS" for Pb ? !
http://visforvoltage.org/forum/4686-60v-lead-acid-battery-balancer-beqla5100-stock-219-plus-sh
I agree that LA has it's risks as well, but most failures are caused by miss-use.
Not exposing the top of a gassing, FLA to an ignition source is part of the basic operating procedure. No sparks at the terminals! A BMS would prevent this... It's not acceptable to routinely cause arcing at the cell tab on a lithium pouch.
A server room explosion was likely caused by the charger going nuts? Not much a battery without any BMS can do about that. The room should have been properly ventilated anyway.
Granted FLA do gas during normal, fast charging, but SLA's don't gas during normal operation.
And yes, I have had a car battery explode on me (by a disconnected HT lead left laying on the metal airbox next to the battery). It was an annoying waste of a good battery!
Not exposing the top of a gassing, FLA to an ignition source is part of the basic operating procedure. No sparks at the terminals! A BMS would prevent this... It's not acceptable to routinely cause arcing at the cell tab on a lithium pouch.
A server room explosion was likely caused by the charger going nuts? Not much a battery without any BMS can do about that. The room should have been properly ventilated anyway.
Granted FLA do gas during normal, fast charging, but SLA's don't gas during normal operation.
And yes, I have had a car battery explode on me (by a disconnected HT lead left laying on the metal airbox next to the battery). It was an annoying waste of a good battery!
SamTexas
1 MW
You mean females are the root cause of LA batteries' failures?Punx0r said:
I don't know if it's true but I agree with you.
Lessss
1 MW
We need some kid to have an accident then convince the mom to go on a rampage campaign to have battery companies finally drop the prices on lithium to force lead off the market. unfortunately right now the manfacturers are still keeping lithium prices artificially high allowing lead to remain competitive.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Lessss said:
In the US lithium battery market, the prices tend to be artificially low rather than high. Many seem to openly sell at below cost here. Getting them to lower costs to lose more money would be tricky.
Hillhater
100 TW
With due respect to all posters, and accepting Luke is more likely to know than anyone else here .. but..
... i doubt if few people outside the inner financial sanctum of the Asian manufacturers really know what the current cost of producing these cells is.
For sure it will vary hugely , depending on location of manufacture, material cost (at time of purchace), scale/rate of production, ..+.100's of other variables including possible local government grants, supplier rebates etc.
Add to that, the rapid rate of development in this field could easily mean that manufacturers and the wholesalers may get loaded with out dated product that has to be sold quickly before it becomes unsellable ( to industry consumers).
As an example, I have a lifetime of manufacturing a pretty humdrum consumer product (Beverage cans) with full access to all financials involved..... and i doubt there is anyone you know who can tell you the true manufacturing cost of that simple common commodity ?.. ( hint.. it is never stable !)
... i doubt if few people outside the inner financial sanctum of the Asian manufacturers really know what the current cost of producing these cells is.
For sure it will vary hugely , depending on location of manufacture, material cost (at time of purchace), scale/rate of production, ..+.100's of other variables including possible local government grants, supplier rebates etc.
Add to that, the rapid rate of development in this field could easily mean that manufacturers and the wholesalers may get loaded with out dated product that has to be sold quickly before it becomes unsellable ( to industry consumers).
As an example, I have a lifetime of manufacturing a pretty humdrum consumer product (Beverage cans) with full access to all financials involved..... and i doubt there is anyone you know who can tell you the true manufacturing cost of that simple common commodity ?.. ( hint.. it is never stable !)
The fingers
10 TW
It must be more than the CRV they pay for them at the recycling station. Say, ten cents apiece? :? (a wild guess)
Dauntless
100 TW
Jeremy Harris said:
But nobody ever thinks to get a camera recording it.
But exploding when you're DISCONNECTING the charge. That's interesting.
A car is essentially a fast charger. The voltage regulator is a BMS that's supposed to stop overcharging. But I've seen the car batteries explode, I've seen them bulging. Have you ever seen how much damage that acid can do when it flies around under the hood? It doesn't have to actually BURN to BURN.
There's been quite a number of computer and phone lipo fires. Dell alone recalled over 4 million. You recall there were the deaths when people fell asleep with the laptop on their laptop. If it had only been the lead acid spilling, it might have been a fate worse than death!
Meanwhile you HOPE they were just in the dark ages building those batteries compared to now. But a lot of that wasn't really faulty batteries, it was blocked vents, etc. Lack of adequate cooling. Hard to fault the technology itself, but it is vulnerable.
ctirad
10 W
Dauntless said:
That's not interesting at all. As said before, once the battery is fully charged and the charger stays connected and powered it will start to produce gas. It's actually an electrolysis of the water with the hydrogen and oxygen as the result. Very explosive. The disconnecting of the still powered charger leads to less or more sparks and if the concentration of the explosive gas around the spark is high enough => BOOOM.
What I find interesting (given the extreme volatility of the H2/O2 mix) is how rarely arcing at the terminals results in ignition. Let's be honest here, most people do not make the final connection away from the battery (it's quite difficult sometimes).
Also, the sulphuric acid in a charged battery is around 30%. You sure don't want that in your eyes, nor in extended contact with your skin, but IME as a splash that's quickly washed off, it's almost a non-event. I've ended up with ~95% conc. on my hands before and it didn't burn me. That's not to say risk should be taken with concentrated acids/alkalis, but it's not like anything with "acid" in the name equals certain death. The same as lithium doesn't equal firey death
Also, the sulphuric acid in a charged battery is around 30%. You sure don't want that in your eyes, nor in extended contact with your skin, but IME as a splash that's quickly washed off, it's almost a non-event. I've ended up with ~95% conc. on my hands before and it didn't burn me. That's not to say risk should be taken with concentrated acids/alkalis, but it's not like anything with "acid" in the name equals certain death. The same as lithium doesn't equal firey death
Similar threads
