Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

[calab]

mxus 45h 3kw with 7 or 8spd fw sticks out to far, either place a shim (rounded off O.D. big washer which was what I did, had to widen the ID hole to for the axle) or go to a 5 spd fw, which are still sold. Ebiking, you only truly need 4 maybe 5 gears, all the rest of the gears you get into, are good enough for the time being because soon another shift will happen and onto another thought, while pedaling.

205 seems nominal for basic dd.
EdgeRunner had a steel stator, the Leafs have good Aluminum stator inside the motor, helps shed heat.
The Leaf 35h or 1500w is the sweet spot for anyone unconcerned about trivial 250-750 watt laws. The extra mass helps with cooling, the bigger motor has more air flow by it to cool it even more, add Ferro Fluid and it stays cooler for longer allowing you to run higher wattages :thumb:
If you arent stupid riding it, who cares, 3000+w on the bicycle pathways it is tyvm. The Leaf 1500w can do that, not for too to long, the most important tip if your running the motor hard, is to help save its self with a temp probe and a controller that cuts power when motor temp is to high. Would have saved me $500, mxus was to much for me and way heavier. The leaf is perfect, the weight aint bad unless you have to lift it.

Yes, the Leafmotor is the sweet spot if you still want a 7sp and power in a standard dropout.
Can get a more powerful/heaver motor in the same dropout but you are reduced to a single speed.
Hubr1.jpg
The DD45 was 45mm wide and the leafmotor is 35mm. Big difference in weight and torque. the wider the slower.
Would have liked to have tried a DD45. When I vary from the leafmotor want to try Grin's front motor, maybe a pair of them.

by Bullfrog » Jul 13 2022 1:55pm

Guys...excuse my lack of knowledge regarding DD hub motors but I need a little education please. I have a lot of experience with the MAC (geared hub) and the BBSHD (mid drive) but I don't have any hands on experience with a DD hub motor.

A. What are the nominal dimensions on the Leaf stator...are they 35mm wide and 205mm OD?

B. Are there any commonly available DD hub motors that have similar or higher performance for the same ballpark price? Grin Tech no longer carries the DD45 that was produced by MXUS (I believe) and most of the motors I can find with a 205mm diameter stator are 30mm or less in width/height.

C. Based on what I have found, the Leaf sort of hits a sweet spot between the 50mm wide QS and the motors that have a 30mm or narrower stator. Is that a fairly true statement or is the info I have incomplete?

That should get me started...Thank You.

 

[Bullfrog]

Out of my range have not tried anything bigger than a leafmotor. "BUT IF" a single speed was in my future! Would take a good look at the QS motor line and if you want all out bad then the QS 273 or lighter QS 205. There are threads here that talk about them. All depends on you anything more powerful than a leafmotor will be heaver and require more power. No free lunch.

The 1500w leafmotor is really a 2000w motor after that you would go to a 3000w motor then a 4-5000w after that you are out of the bike range, no sprockets.

by Bullfrog » Jul 14 2022 3:19pm

If you were willing to live with a single speed freewheel, what DD Hub motor would you choose?

ZeroEm...I was hoping for at least a FREE snack but I agree "anything more powerful than a leafmotor will be heaver and require more power. No free lunch." I have had very good help from everyone at QS that I have communicated with in the past so I'd probably go with a QS205 if I went with a 50mm wide stator....I just need to decide how much weight I am willing to attach to my rear drop outs :lol: .
Thank You

 

[Bullfrog]

mxus 45h 3kw with 7 or 8spd fw sticks out to far, either place a shim (rounded off O.D. big washer which was what I did, had to widen the ID hole to for the axle) or go to a 5 spd fw, which are still sold. Ebiking, you only truly need 4 maybe 5 gears, all the rest of the gears you get into, are good enough for the time being because soon another shift will happen and onto another thought, while pedaling.

205 seems nominal for basic dd.
EdgeRunner had a steel stator, the Leafs have good Aluminum stator inside the motor, helps shed heat.
The Leaf 35h or 1500w is the sweet spot for anyone unconcerned about trivial 250-750 watt laws. The extra mass helps with cooling, the bigger motor has more air flow by it to cool it even more, add Ferro Fluid and it stays cooler for longer allowing you to run higher wattages :thumb:
If you arent stupid riding it, who cares, 3000+w on the bicycle pathways it is tyvm. The Leaf 1500w can do that, not for too to long, the most important tip if your running the motor hard, is to help save its self with a temp probe and a controller that cuts power when motor temp is to high. Would have saved me $500, mxus was to much for me and way heavier. The leaf is perfect, the weight aint bad unless you have to lift it.

Yes, the Leafmotor is the sweet spot if you still want a 7sp and power in a standard dropout.
Can get a more powerful/heaver motor in the same dropout but you are reduced to a single speed.
Hubr1.jpg
The DD45 was 45mm wide and the leafmotor is 35mm. Big difference in weight and torque. the wider the slower.
Would have liked to have tried a DD45. When I vary from the leafmotor want to try Grin's front motor, maybe a pair of them.

by Bullfrog » Jul 13 2022 1:55pm

Guys...excuse my lack of knowledge regarding DD hub motors but I need a little education please. I have a lot of experience with the MAC (geared hub) and the BBSHD (mid drive) but I don't have any hands on experience with a DD hub motor.

A. What are the nominal dimensions on the Leaf stator...are they 35mm wide and 205mm OD?

B. Are there any commonly available DD hub motors that have similar or higher performance for the same ballpark price? Grin Tech no longer carries the DD45 that was produced by MXUS (I believe) and most of the motors I can find with a 205mm diameter stator are 30mm or less in width/height.

C. Based on what I have found, the Leaf sort of hits a sweet spot between the 50mm wide QS and the motors that have a 30mm or narrower stator. Is that a fairly true statement or is the info I have incomplete?

That should get me started...Thank You.

Thanks Calab....has anyone tried both a mxus 45h motor and also looked at the construction of the windings? By construction of the windings, I mean how neat, evenly, tight, etc...the windings were wrapped. I have heard the MXUS was not manufactured with as much care as the leaf but I have never seen one so I didn't want to talk bad about them.

 

[Bullfrog]

I dont know what the generic controllers phase amps ratio is set at, perhaps just 2:1

Does anyone have a recommendation for a suitable controller with high phase current? I’m after a bit more ‘punch’ in the low end than the stock controller.

If anyone has an answer to electric nz's question regarding a controller...please chime in. I would probably use an infineon clone controller with 18 or 24 FETs since the Trapezoidal controller works great for high power levels...it's only big disadvantage is at low speeds where it doesn't get a motor moving as efficiently as a FOC/Sin wave controller.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Thanks Calab....has anyone tried both a mxus 45h motor and also looked at the construction of the windings? By construction of the windings, I mean how neat, evenly, tight, etc...the windings were wrapped. I have heard the MXUS was not manufactured with as much care as the leaf but I have never seen one so I didn't want to talk bad about them.

I've used both. It's been a while, but from memory they were about the same. I pushed the Leaf to 8KW successfully, and the MXUS to 14KW successfully. TBH, they are about the same quality, just one is 35mm the other 45mm wide.

Cheers

 

[ZeroEm]

Bullfrog figure out what real speed you will ride at not some top speed that you will not be at much. You want to match the motor, turns and voltage with the controller. What limits us is mounting space and money and the limits of a bike. If you get to much power, might seem like a great idea until you ride it and it's twitchy at low speeds and can not control it when taking off.

The main idea of a big DD motor is it's heat sheading for riding at constant high power. Like the leaf you can push it until it gets hot. For me riding at top speed is only 1200w so having a heavy motor that puts out anything above 3000w is a waste of money. I can turn up my setup to 3200w but it is not needed run between 2500-3000w in high. If you watch the heat you can get crazy high power for short periods.

Need to figure out what size that will permit you to ride at the speeds you will want.

 

[Bullfrog]

Thanks Calab....has anyone tried both a mxus 45h motor and also looked at the construction of the windings? By construction of the windings, I mean how neat, evenly, tight, etc...the windings were wrapped. I have heard the MXUS was not manufactured with as much care as the leaf but I have never seen one so I didn't want to talk bad about them.

I've used both. It's been a while, but from memory they were about the same. I pushed the Leaf to 8KW successfully, and the MXUS to 14KW successfully. TBH, they are about the same quality, just one is 35mm the other 45mm wide.

Cheers

Thanks Cowardlyduck...I appreciate your input.

Could you tell much difference between the acceleration of the Leaf vs the MXUS if you were feeding them the same amperage?

My main objective is to get good acceleration from roughly 10 mph to 30 mph...that is why I am asking if there was a noticable difference between them. I don't expect to get as much acceleration as my MAC with its 5:1 mechanical advantage but over heating won't be as much of a problem as it is with the MAC.

I know I can get a LOT of acceleration out of a DD motor if I feed it enough amperage but I plan to stick with my Li Ion battery as opposed to making the jump to LiPo...well at least at the point anyway :lol: .

 

[Bullfrog]

Bullfrog figure out what real speed you will ride at not some top speed that you will not be at much. You want to match the motor, turns and voltage with the controller. What limits us is mounting space and money and the limits of a bike. If you get to much power, might seem like a great idea until you ride it and it's twitchy at low speeds and can not control it when taking off.

The main idea of a big DD motor is it's heat sheading for riding at constant high power. Like the leaf you can push it until it gets hot. For me riding at top speed is only 1200w so having a heavy motor that puts out anything above 3000w is a waste of money. I can turn up my setup to 3200w but it is not needed run between 2500-3000w in high. If you watch the heat you can get crazy high power for short periods.

Need to figure out what size that will permit you to ride at the speeds you will want.

ZeroEm...Thanks and I agree with everything you said it is just that my primary use for my ebike is cruising around the neighborhood and accelerating hard between 5-10 mph to about 30-35 mph and then doing it again and again. Occasionally I do ride from A to B and I'd like to be able to cruise at about 30-35 mph without over heating. I have a couple steel framed hardtails with dropout spacings of 135mm and 142mm and I could probably flex the 142mm bike to fit a QS205 if I decide to go with it. At this point, I do plan to stick with my Li Ion battery as opposed to a Li Po pack so the max amperage I will have available is about 55-60A.

I understand that you need to match the motor, controller, and the battery in the big picture....it is looking like I just need to decide between the Leaf (35mm stator), the MXUS (45mm stator), and the QS (50mm stator). At least based on my current knowledge of the available DD options, those are the better DD hub motors.

Anybody have another motor I need to throw in the mix ?

Thanks guys.

 

[ZeroEm]

Think you under estimate the Leaf. Was thinking you wanted to ride around 50 mph. If 35 mph is all your wanting then don't see why a leafmotor will not fit the bill. Run a 4T with FF at 48V and at least 60 Battery amps and have your Phase 120 -150a. Don't need Li Po's. Looks like it would be pulling 1600w on flat ground, that is under the 2000w the leaf can live at for long periods of time.
I'm running a 7T at 72V and have my amps set at 35 can do 40 but don't need it and can ride at 32 mph with out any heat issues.

by Bullfrog » Jul 16 2022 1:46pm

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 16 2022 6:50am
Bullfrog figure out what real speed you will ride at not some top speed that you will not be at much. You want to match the motor, turns and voltage with the controller. What limits us is mounting space and money and the limits of a bike. If you get to much power, might seem like a great idea until you ride it and it's twitchy at low speeds and can not control it when taking off.

The main idea of a big DD motor is it's heat sheading for riding at constant high power. Like the leaf you can push it until it gets hot. For me riding at top speed is only 1200w so having a heavy motor that puts out anything above 3000w is a waste of money. I can turn up my setup to 3200w but it is not needed run between 2500-3000w in high. If you watch the heat you can get crazy high power for short periods.

Need to figure out what size that will permit you to ride at the speeds you will want.

ZeroEm...Thanks and I agree with everything you said it is just that my primary use for my ebike is cruising around the neighborhood and accelerating hard between 5-10 mph to about 30-35 mph and then doing it again and again. Occasionally I do ride from A to B and I'd like to be able to cruise at about 30-35 mph without over heating. I have a couple steel framed hardtails with dropout spacings of 135mm and 142mm and I could probably flex the 142mm bike to fit a QS205 if I decide to go with it. At this point, I do plan to stick with my Li Ion battery as opposed to a Li Po pack so the max amperage I will have available is about 55-60A.

I understand that you need to match the motor, controller, and the battery in the big picture....it is looking like I just need to decide between the Leaf (35mm stator), the MXUS (45mm stator), and the QS (50mm stator). At least based on my current knowledge of the available DD options, those are the better DD hub motors.

Anybody have another motor I need to throw in the mix ?

Thanks guys.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Thanks Cowardlyduck...I appreciate your input.

Could you tell much difference between the acceleration of the Leaf vs the MXUS if you were feeding them the same amperage?

My main objective is to get good acceleration from roughly 10 mph to 30 mph...that is why I am asking if there was a noticable difference between them. I don't expect to get as much acceleration as my MAC with its 5:1 mechanical advantage but over heating won't be as much of a problem as it is with the MAC.

I know I can get a LOT of acceleration out of a DD motor if I feed it enough amperage but I plan to stick with my Li Ion battery as opposed to making the jump to LiPo...well at least at the point anyway :lol: .

No worries.
Testing my memory, but at the same power input, but with 50% more bike weight they felt about the same. So the MXUS would pull harder for a bike the same weight...how much of a real difference that is I'm not sure.

TBH, as others have said, it sounds like the Leaf is what you need. Just get a controller with tweakable phase amps, add good cooling to the Leaf with Ferrofluid and hubsinks and call it a day.

Cheers

 

[Bullfrog]

Thanks everyone.

I am leaning towards the Leaf and I know it will work fine for cruising the speed I want to ride.

But acceleration is something I am concerned about...if I model the Leaf and a MAC using the Grin Tech Motor Simulator and I artificially set the Kv to get a 35 mph top speed out of both motors, the Leaf takes roughly double the battery amperage to match the acceleration of the MAC. The Mac ends up being phase amp (controller) limited where the Leaf ends up being battery amperage limited. Acceleration is the reason I was asking about the wider stators for the other DD hub motors.

The run is somewhat unrealistic because a MAC will over heat if you run it over about 30 mph continuously but the acceleration data is good for a comparison.

This is the simulation I ran:
https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MMAC10T&batt=B5213_GA&cont=cust_60_200_0.009_V&wheel=28.35i&mass=130&hp=0&axis=mph&blue=Lbs&cont_b=cust_120_200_0.009_V&motor_b=Leaf%205T&batt_b=B5213_GA&wheel_b=28.35i&mass_b=130&hp_b=0&bopen=true&kv=12.7&kv_b=11.75

 

[ZeroEm]

If you get a 4T Leafmotor then you need to adjust the Kv in the simulation from 11.75 to 13.75 as Grin shows a 5T. This will increase the speed without all the amps. Need more battery maybe a dual 13ah.

by Bullfrog » Jul 17 2022 3:51pm

Thanks everyone.

I am leaning towards the Leaf and I know it will work fine for cruising the speed I want to ride.

But acceleration is something I am concerned about...if I model the Leaf and a MAC using the Grin Tech Motor Simulator and I artificially set the Kv to get a 35 mph top speed out of both motors, the Leaf takes roughly double the battery amperage to match the acceleration of the MAC. The Mac ends up being phase amp (controller) limited where the Leaf ends up being battery amperage limited. Acceleration is the reason I was asking about the wider stators for the other DD hub motors.

The run is somewhat unrealistic because a MAC will over heat if you run it over about 30 mph continuously but the acceleration data is good for a comparison.

 

[Bullfrog]

If you get a 4T Leafmotor then you need to adjust the Kv in the simulation from 11.75 to 13.75 as Grin shows a 5T. This will increase the speed without all the amps. Need more battery maybe a dual 13ah.

by Bullfrog » Jul 17 2022 3:51pm

Thanks everyone.

I am leaning towards the Leaf and I know it will work fine for cruising the speed I want to ride.

But acceleration is something I am concerned about...if I model the Leaf and a MAC using the Grin Tech Motor Simulator and I artificially set the Kv to get a 35 mph top speed out of both motors, the Leaf takes roughly double the battery amperage to match the acceleration of the MAC. The Mac ends up being phase amp (controller) limited where the Leaf ends up being battery amperage limited. Acceleration is the reason I was asking about the wider stators for the other DD hub motors.

The run is somewhat unrealistic because a MAC will over heat if you run it over about 30 mph continuously but the acceleration data is good for a comparison.

The Kv of 11.75 for the Leaf 5T is what I entered to get a top speed of 35 mph.

Grin's Kv for the 5T is 10.494.

The Kv I used for the MAC was artificially increased to 12.7 to get a 35 mph top speed.

There are a lot of different things you can change to compare motors...for my example, I chose to match the top speeds. The curves are similar to what I did if you use an 8T MAC and the 5T Leaf and don't change the Kv for either motor.

 

[thundercamel]

That simulator link also had massive voltage sag with the battery you selected. Try this for a more capable battery, 60amp vs. 80amp. Leaf is stronger above 19mph, while Mac is stronger down low and is more efficient throughout.

 

[Bullfrog]

That simulator link also had massive voltage sag with the battery you selected. Try this for a more capable battery, 60amp vs. 80amp. Leaf is stronger above 19mph, while Mac is stronger down low and is more efficient throughout.

All excellent points by thundercamel.

The only issue is most "Good" commercially available 52v batteries come with a BMS that is limited to 60A or less and if you limit both motors to 60 battery amps, the MAC out accelerates the Leaf at all speeds up to around 34 mph.

I am not slamming the Leaf....the difference is mainly due to the design of a geared hub vs a DD hub. Even though the acceleration of the MAC is great, you can't run it continuously on flat ground over roughly 30 mph or it will over heat...at least that is my experience with my 200 lb body on a bike with a MAC :lol: . Soooo if you want to ride faster than approximately 30 mph, a DD motor is your best bet and the Leaf is one of the good choices.

 

[ZeroEm]

A lot of quoted rpms are unloaded, i'm sure Grin's are right. I have a list but are all unloaded rpm's. People like to put in unreal numbers in the simulator to get what they want to see but it will not be real in the world we live in. Even if a motor were to hit that top speed it will drop with the first little grade or gust of wind. Loaded RPM's will be at least 1 Kv lower than the unloaded.
You can only get so much speed with 48-52v systems.

The leafmotor lives just fine at 72V. Not everyone's cup of Tea but it seems to suite me just fine. To run a lot of amps you will need to give the wiring some attention. Not as much so with higher voltage and lower Kv.

by Bullfrog » Jul 18 2022 1:27pm

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 17 2022 4:19pm
If you get a 4T Leafmotor then you need to adjust the Kv in the simulation from 11.75 to 13.75 as Grin shows a 5T. This will increase the speed without all the amps. Need more battery maybe a dual 13ah.

The Kv of 11.75 for the Leaf 5T is what I entered to get a top speed of 35 mph.

Grin's Kv for the 5T is 10.494.

The Kv I used for the MAC was artificially increased to 12.7 to get a 35 mph top speed.

There are a lot of different things you can change to compare motors...for my example, I chose to match the top speeds. The curves are similar to what I did if you use an 8T MAC and the 5T Leaf and don't change the Kv for either motor.

 

[Bullfrog]

A lot of quoted rpms are unloaded, i'm sure Grin's are right. I have a list but are all unloaded rpm's. People like to put in unreal numbers in the simulator to get what they want to see but it will not be real in the world we live in. Even if a motor were to hit that top speed it will drop with the first little grade or gust of wind. Loaded RPM's will be at least 1 Kv lower than the unloaded.
You can only get so much speed with 48-52v systems.

The leafmotor lives just fine at 72V. Not everyone's cup of Tea but it seems to suite me just fine. To run a lot of amps you will need to give the wiring some attention. Not as much so with higher voltage and lower Kv.

by Bullfrog » Jul 18 2022 1:27pm

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 17 2022 4:19pm
If you get a 4T Leafmotor then you need to adjust the Kv in the simulation from 11.75 to 13.75 as Grin shows a 5T. This will increase the speed without all the amps. Need more battery maybe a dual 13ah.

The Kv of 11.75 for the Leaf 5T is what I entered to get a top speed of 35 mph.

Grin's Kv for the 5T is 10.494.

The Kv I used for the MAC was artificially increased to 12.7 to get a 35 mph top speed.

There are a lot of different things you can change to compare motors...for my example, I chose to match the top speeds. The curves are similar to what I did if you use an 8T MAC and the 5T Leaf and don't change the Kv for either motor.

ZeroEM...which Leaf motor (4T, 5T, etc.) are you using and what is your real world top speed on flat ground?

You are using 72v correct? That is my plan :thumb: .

 

[ZeroEm]

Yes, i'm running 72V 26ah. Ordered a 7T Leafmotor to slow the motor down and get more torque per amp on the low end for the hills, without running a lot of amps. Did not want to over sizing the Motor wiring for higher amps.
72v is a bigger battery and controller. If you go with high amps then you get crazy power. My trike will do about 3200w but it gets there so fast the motor never gets hot.

Note: putting this disclaimer as not to breath life in an old debate, A motor has a maximum torque and the windings do not change that.
Here is a link to my setup 72v 7T leafmotor

Was never interested in high speed or acceleration. You can see in the chart 125nm of torque and can ride at 31 mph just over 11a. and my power and torque curves cross at my 15mph it is perfect for me. Ride a lot of paved city bike trails and the speed limit here is 28 mph for my trike.

by Bullfrog » Jul 20 2022 7:21am

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 19 2022 4:04pm
A lot of quoted rpms are unloaded, i'm sure Grin's are right. I have a list but are all unloaded rpm's. People like to put in unreal numbers in the simulator to get what they want to see but it will not be real in the world we live in. Even if a motor were to hit that top speed it will drop with the first little grade or gust of wind. Loaded RPM's will be at least 1 Kv lower than the unloaded.
You can only get so much speed with 48-52v systems.

The leafmotor lives just fine at 72V. Not everyone's cup of Tea but it seems to suite me just fine. To run a lot of amps you will need to give the wiring some attention. Not as much so with higher voltage and lower Kv.

by Bullfrog » Jul 18 2022 1:27pm

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 17 2022 4:19pm
If you get a 4T Leafmotor then you need to adjust the Kv in the simulation from 11.75 to 13.75 as Grin shows a 5T. This will increase the speed without all the amps. Need more battery maybe a dual 13ah.

The Kv of 11.75 for the Leaf 5T is what I entered to get a top speed of 35 mph.

Grin's Kv for the 5T is 10.494.

The Kv I used for the MAC was artificially increased to 12.7 to get a 35 mph top speed.

There are a lot of different things you can change to compare motors...for my example, I chose to match the top speeds. The curves are similar to what I did if you use an 8T MAC and the 5T Leaf and don't change the Kv for either motor.

ZeroEM...which Leaf motor (4T, 5T, etc.) are you using and what is your real world top speed on flat ground?

You are using 72v correct? That is my plan :thumb: .

 

[Bullfrog]

Yes, i'm running 72V 26ah. Ordered a 7T Leafmotor to slow the motor down and get more torque per amp on the low end for the hills, without running a lot of amps. Did not want to over sizing the Motor wiring for higher amps.
72v is a bigger battery and controller. If you go with high amps then you get crazy power. My trike will do about 3200w but it gets there so fast the motor never gets hot.

Note: putting this disclaimer as not to breath life in an old debate, A motor has a maximum torque and the windings do not change that.
Here is a link to my setup 72v 7T leafmotor

Was never interested in high speed or acceleration. You can see in the chart 125nm of torque and can ride at 31 mph just over 11a. and my power and torque curves cross at my 15mph it is perfect for me. Ride a lot of paved city bike trails and the speed limit here is 28 mph for my trike.

by Bullfrog » Jul 20 2022 7:21am

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 19 2022 4:04pm
A lot of quoted rpms are unloaded, i'm sure Grin's are right. I have a list but are all unloaded rpm's. People like to put in unreal numbers in the simulator to get what they want to see but it will not be real in the world we live in. Even if a motor were to hit that top speed it will drop with the first little grade or gust of wind. Loaded RPM's will be at least 1 Kv lower than the unloaded.
You can only get so much speed with 48-52v systems.

The leafmotor lives just fine at 72V. Not everyone's cup of Tea but it seems to suite me just fine. To run a lot of amps you will need to give the wiring some attention. Not as much so with higher voltage and lower Kv.

by Bullfrog » Jul 18 2022 1:27pm

ZeroEm wrote: ↑Jul 17 2022 4:19pm
If you get a 4T Leafmotor then you need to adjust the Kv in the simulation from 11.75 to 13.75 as Grin shows a 5T. This will increase the speed without all the amps. Need more battery maybe a dual 13ah.

The Kv of 11.75 for the Leaf 5T is what I entered to get a top speed of 35 mph.

Grin's Kv for the 5T is 10.494.

The Kv I used for the MAC was artificially increased to 12.7 to get a 35 mph top speed.

There are a lot of different things you can change to compare motors...for my example, I chose to match the top speeds. The curves are similar to what I did if you use an 8T MAC and the 5T Leaf and don't change the Kv for either motor.

ZeroEM...which Leaf motor (4T, 5T, etc.) are you using and what is your real world top speed on flat ground?

You are using 72v correct? That is my plan :thumb: .

Perfect...Thank You, I want to run a max of about the same speed.

 

[amalik]

This motor is sold out

Any idea when it’ll be in stock?

 

[ZeroEm]

That's a first! Have no idea.

by amalik » Jul 21 2022 4:28am

This motor is sold out

Any idea when it’ll be in stock?

 

[calab]

Which motor is sold out the front or the rear Leaf 35H (1500w) at Leafbike or Leafmotor?

ZeroEm I would only use 72v to up my total wattages for steep hills then to use 72v for speed, but 52v does me fine, perhaps 60v would help at lower voltages but a 52v battery at lower voltages 49v (below half) where 44v is lvc and 58.8v is off charger, but the speed for me is fine all the way through its voltage cycle. When using the throttle, I would have to somehow limit the speed on 72v but not the total watts. Human nature has no limits so the speed slowly increases over time and you dont even notice it, until you end up as speedy gonzales, always late for something
Sometimes I go wide open throttle for fun, but a mile when I can see everything. It just wastes too much wh reduces total mileage. I did 4 miles at wot and it drained the battery quite a bit, Im 260lbs, 5t leaf 1500w, 52v 35a, generic cont, no pas. 2 750wh batteries add weight, my old battery is probably at more then 750wh, perhaps 900-1000wh based on distances and my usual wh/distance.

This motor is sold out

Any idea when it’ll be in stock?

 

[ZeroEm]

Yes, we all like power until we want more distance then we need to constrain ourselves. I use a CA3 to limit my amps for my battery then have a 3 way switch to restrain myself. Low is set around 1200w, Med level is around 2000w and high is 100% and will be limited by the CA amp limit around 2600w.

I leave it in low with light pedaling can pull any hill around here but does not limit speed and will hit top speed that is limited again in the CA3 at 28 mph. While this does not limit speed it does conserve the battery.

If you go with 72v then I would get a 6T leafmotor or a 5T with a 24" wheel.

Just hope you have room on your bike.

by calab » Jul 21 2022 9:46am

Which motor is sold out the front or the rear Leaf 35H (1500w) at Leafbike or Leafmotor?

ZeroEm I would only use 72v to up my total wattages for steep hills then to use 72v for speed, but 52v does me fine, perhaps 60v would help at lower voltages but a 52v battery at lower voltages 49v (below half) where 44v is lvc and 58.8v is off charger, but the speed for me is fine all the way through its voltage cycle. When using the throttle, I would have to somehow limit the speed on 72v but not the total watts. Human nature has no limits so the speed slowly increases over time and you dont even notice it, until you end up as speedy gonzales, always late for something
Sometimes I go wide open throttle for fun, but a mile when I can see everything. It just wastes too much wh reduces total mileage. I did 4 miles at wot and it drained the battery quite a bit, Im 260lbs, 5t leaf 1500w, 52v 35a, generic cont, no pas. 2 750wh batteries add weight, my old battery is probably at more then 750wh, perhaps 900-1000wh based on distances and my usual wh/distance.

 

[Bullfrog]

Question....what diameter rim do you like to run your motor in?

A 24" bicycle tire is very close to the same outside diameter as a 17" motorcycle tire. Since 17" tires are what most current motorcycles run on the street, I was wondering if it is worth going with a 24" bicycle wheel or are there any drawbacks?

Thanks for any and all opinions as well as knowledge :wink: .

 

[ZeroEm]

Have not tried them all out as yet. There is a trade off as for all things. I'm on a 24" kick this year so need to excuse me.
Facts 24" with a nice tire is close to a 26" so you don't get much benefit as a something like a 20".

Have bought a 24" rim i'm going to mount a 5T edge motor in. 5T is a little to much speed for me at 72v, will never ride that fast. So going down in wheel size. 20" would be great but spoke angle and pot holes keep me away from something that small. Netronics found some 22" wheels. Getting odd sizes causes issues finding tires and such. If I keep the 5T in the 24" wheel, later would go down to a 60v battery to slow it down more.

To me a 24" helps but does not drop the bike to much and mounting a motor is not a total pain.
If I was you Keep your 26" go with 48v 60a and 4T motor.
If you just really want to play with 72V try to get a 6T leafmotor 60a controller and you can use your 26". you would be impressed.


Main thing is to plan out your mounting space, to see if it's doable. Everything is bigger with 72V and need a good size battery. The drawback of 72v is you can burn thru the watts faster. You can get more watts in the motor with out as much heat. You can get just the same amount of watts in a motor no matter what voltage your run but need to make sure your wires are upgraded to handle the watts.

Note: most want the high top end speed but never spend much time there so it is sort of a waste. Best to set it up closer to your true riding speed, you will get more distance and a cooler running motor.

by Bullfrog » Jul 22 2022 7:48am

Question....what diameter rim do you like to run your motor in?

A 24" bicycle tire is very close to the same outside diameter as a 17" motorcycle tire. Since 17" tires are what most current motorcycles run on the street, I was wondering if it is worth going with a 24" bicycle wheel or are there any drawbacks?

Thanks for any and all opinions as well as knowledge :wink: .