Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

[amberwolf]

Currently have this motor laced in a 24" rim. Don't want to have to unlace to make measurements to use in Grin spoke calculator before ordering rim and spokes because this is a daily use bike. Anyone running this motor in a regular 20" rim. If so, which rim and what length/gauge spokes are you using. Thx.

Each rim (even of "same" outer diameter) will be different for it's ERD, some of them by quite a bit depending on actual construction, so you'll need to know the rim specifics from it's manufacturer or seller or have it there to measure it to be sure of getting the right spoke lengths for it.

For the motor itself, there are posts in this thread that give measurements, such as this one

Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor - Page 84 - ES 1.0 Graveyard

you can use this link to the archived version

Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor - ES 1.0 Graveyard

and use the searchbox just above the first post to search just this thread for keywords, if you'd like to see other posts that may have this info. (depends on what words they used as to what terms to use to find them; "flange" found the one above).

 

[AdR]

Thx amberwolf

 

[Jasonafriedman]

Hey everyone! I sold my BBS02 and am looking to join the dark side. I am starting from scratch on a build. I need to build a mountain bike for commuting up a 10 mile, 2300 foot climb, mixed paved and dirt road. Avg grade is 5.6% max grade is 12%. I will also use it for flat commutes but it is ok if the speed is limited. Is the motor ok to run in the rain and mud? I am trying to just find something budget friendly that could take this commute and not fry. I am open to using lipos to save $. I am thinking of getting a cheap 26" hardtail. I am not looking to beat any speed records, I am more concerned about battery cost and reliability.

 

[calab]

"Budget friendly" is a useless term, spit some numbers out please, $2k everything included or $3k, what size battery, total length. Go with an ebay special or the dd leaf 1500, or mac geared. How much you want to pedal and all the other usual questions determines everything.

 

[amberwolf]

I am more concerned about battery cost and reliability.

If you're looking for reliability, then battery should be the one place you spend some money, as it is the heart of the system and has to supply all the power for every job you need the bike to do for you, reliably, 100% of the time for as long as you need it to.

You can use the motor and trip simulators at ebikes.ca to determine the power level you will need to do the climb, and estimate teh wh/mile it will take so you can determine minimum battery capacity required.

You don't mention your weight and that of the bike and anything else you'll be carrying, so I couldn't do any simulations for you. Power will increase based on weight, speed (which includes winds, because the air resistance is what counts), rolling resistance, and slope.


My guess is that for the worst 12% grades at say, 20mph, with a medium-light rider for something like a couple hundred pounds total bike/rider/system weight, it will take at least a couple thousand watts of battery power, maybe 3/4 of that at the motor (wasting the rest as heat in the system), and at least 100wh/mile battery usage. That's assuming good pavement and road tires inflated correctly.

If you had a 52v (14s) battery, it would need to be able to sustain at least 40A continuously to get the couple thousand watts for the system, and at 100wh/mile it'd take at least 1kWh to go 10 miles (of course, you won't use nearly that much capacity if the 12% slope portion(s) aren't much of the total distance).

But it still requires the system be able to provide the max power continuously, even if it's only needed for a short run...so the battery has to be able to do that with minimal voltage sag (the more.sag, the less total power available).


For the dirt or poor paving, etc., or offroad tires or low tire pressure, etc., it will take more power, and larger battery capacity, to do the job.

Same for higher weight, faster speed, non-tailwinds, etc.

 

[Jasonafriedman]

If you're looking for reliability, then battery should be the one place you spend some money, as it is the heart of the system and has to supply all the power for every job you need the bike to do for you, reliably, 100% of the time for as long as you need it to.

You can use the motor and trip simulators at ebikes.ca to determine the power level you will need to do the climb, and estimate teh wh/mile it will take so you can determine minimum battery capacity required.

You don't mention your weight and that of the bike and anything else you'll be carrying, so I couldn't do any simulations for you. Power will increase based on weight, speed (which includes winds, because the air resistance is what counts), rolling resistance, and slope.


My guess is that for the worst 12% grades at say, 20mph, with a medium-light rider for something like a couple hundred pounds total bike/rider/system weight, it will take at least a couple thousand watts of battery power, maybe 3/4 of that at the motor (wasting the rest as heat in the system), and at least 100wh/mile battery usage. That's assuming good pavement and road tires inflated correctly.

If you had a 52v (14s) battery, it would need to be able to sustain at least 40A continuously to get the couple thousand watts for the system, and at 100wh/mile it'd take at least 1kWh to go 10 miles (of course, you won't use nearly that much capacity if the 12% slope portion(s) aren't much of the total distance).

But it still requires the system be able to provide the max power continuously, even if it's only needed for a short run...so the battery has to be able to do that with minimal voltage sag (the more.sag, the less total power available).


For the dirt or poor paving, etc., or offroad tires or low tire pressure, etc., it will take more power, and larger battery capacity, to do the job.

Same for higher weight, faster speed, non-tailwinds, etc.

I have had good luck with the Hailong style batteries from electrifybike.com. For example they sell a 14s 4p Samsung 21700 50G pack with 50A BMS 1040Wh for $600. I am pretty in shape and plan on pedaling pretty hard. I weigh 120lbs, but will prob have 30lbs of bags. I am going to use a hardtail mtb size medium so maybe 25- 30lbs. So 180lbs before the ebike kit.

For the trip simulator, I don't see leafbike motor options. Is there a comparable motor?

There is one short and very steep unpaved section but I am happy to just walk it.

Any thoughts on riding with the leafbike 1500w in the rain? From what I have read it might not last that long.

 

[Jasonafriedman]

"Budget friendly" is a useless term, spit some numbers out please, $2k everything included or $3k, what size battery, total length. Go with an ebay special or the dd leaf 1500, or mac geared. How much you want to pedal and all the other usual questions determines everything.

I am trying to keep it under $1500 but could stretch to $2k. The issue is with a $2k budget, I could just get a CYC x1 pro with battery and call it a day. The road is pretty steep and I think most of the ebay kits might oveheat, not to mention the controllers are not waterproof either.

 

[A-DamW]

For the trip simulator, I don't see leafbike motor options. Is there a comparable motor?

It is in the "extended"(SHOW ALL) list, click on the motor dropdown, scroll to the bottom of the list, click on "SHOW ALL", then the leaf motor is alphabetically listed.
I see one entry for "Leaf 35mm 5T"

 

[electric_nz]

Hey everyone! I sold my BBS02 and am looking to join the dark side. I am starting from scratch on a build. I need to build a mountain bike for commuting up a 10 mile, 2300 foot climb, mixed paved and dirt road. Avg grade is 5.6% max grade is 12%. I will also use it for flat commutes but it is ok if the speed is limited. Is the motor ok to run in the rain and mud? I am trying to just find something budget friendly that could take this commute and not fry. I am open to using lipos to save $. I am thinking of getting a cheap 26" hardtail. I am not looking to beat any speed records, I am more concerned about battery cost and reliability.

The motor has sealed bearings on both side and possibly lip seals as well (?) so should be splash proof. I’ve rode mine in the rain a ton with no issues (urban commuter)

It’s a heavy beast though, so if you are planning to run off road you’ll need thick tyres. Probably not suited to steep rutted tracks, mid drive shines for low speed torque.

Recommend 50A or more to get the most out of it. It has enough grunt to get up those grades easily. The stock controller is ok, I did a shunt mod to 50A and neither the motor or controller gets very warm. Extremely reliable so far but I’m looking to move to a geared hub for more zip off the line at traffic lights.

 

[999zip999]

The only trouble getting it into if you stall tshe motor made it and not go anywhere it'll heat up I would monitor your temperatures and have a temperature shut off at 60 amp

 

[99t4]

Any thoughts on riding with the leafbike 1500w in the rain? From what I have read it might not last that long.

What have you read? Make sure you install it so the wires exiting the axle form a "drip loop." I ride in consistent rain much of the year and go thru pedals and chains while the dd hubmotor keeps on ticking.

...not to mention the controllers are not waterproof either.

Difficult to near impossible to truly waterproof controllers. Best workable solution is to use full fenders and mount the controller in a relatively "dry" location, oriented so that the wire exit is pointing downwards so as not to funnel any water into it, and (optional) drill holes into the lowest section of the case to allow any accumulated water to easily drain out.

You can fortify the case gaskets and wire grommets with caulking for more peace of mind. My results from common silicone caulk have been poor. Best results by far is from using roofing rain gutter seam sealer like Geocel:

Gutter Sealant in Bulk

Geocel 2320 sealant easily adheres to wet and dry surfaces and is highly durable, making it one of the best gutter sealants on the market. Shop Geocel in bulk!

www.gutterworks.com

Some vendors sell smaller (toothpaste-sized) tubes.

 

[Allex]

Can some one give me the bearing types in the leaf 35mm? thx

 

[calab]

What do the numbers say on your stock bearing?

 

[Allex]

I have yet to open it, but dont want to open it just to look for the type. I bet some1 has some pictures here or info on what to get.

 

[amberwolf]

There are some posts about the bearings in this thread; this archived version search finds them, and at least one gives a specific part number that was used to replace the originals in a 35H.

ES 1.0 Graveyard - Search

 

[The Toecutter]

I think the new 0.27mm lamination version is on the market now.

Leafbike is advertising their efficiency at 90.5% now for most of their 1,000W, 1,500W, and 2,000W motors, an increase from last year which was 90.2%. They also have a 2,000W motor specifically for electric bicycles, but my suspicion is this might just be 4T wind version of the 1,500W, as the 2,000W is rated for 60V instead of 48V.

My next step before ordering is to verify that the 4T 1500W in my possession will fit in my Milan SL velomobile. If it does not, I will have to consider an alternative motor. If it does, I want a 3T wind version of the 1000W in a 26" wheel.

 

[neptronix]

Sorry to break it to you but they've been advertising 90.5% peak efficiency since 2013.

Looked at their listings, they're very confusing. I think they are selling the 1500w motor as a 2000w motor?

They seem to sell a "55m wide hub" version as 2kw rated however they post up the 1500w dyno graph which is useless here:
48V 52V 2000W rear electric motorcycle - fat snow bike motor

If we're talking about a 55mm wide stator, then the power would easily be over 2kw continuous, so i'm unsure if this is actually a more powerful motor.

 

[neptronix]

Here's the posted dimensions for the so called 2kw motor.



Versus Grin's all axle with a 27mm stator


Notice the very small difference in flange spacing... ( the stator width cannot exceed the width of that )

My best guess is the 2kw motor is the 35mm wide one.

Leafbike makes all this clear as mud..

 

[E-HP]

I noticed a month or two ago that the Grin simulator doesn't create useable hyperlinks for the Leaf motor anymore. Typically, you select your motor and custom parameters, then hit the simulate button. When you do that, the URL at the top updates to include the motor and any other custom settings (battery, controller, etc.). That works for any motor but the Leaf for some reason.

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...

ebikes.ca

I think there may be a cross reference between the Leaf and the Crystalyte motor. The simulator takes the custom settings from the Leaf, and runs them on the Crystalyte, even though the URL points to the Leaf. After the error message, the Leaf can be selected from the drop down and then simulate, and the output changes, but the URL stays the same (still the Leaf motor). Hitting Refresh makes the error pop up again, and inserts the Crystalyte back in place of the Leaf.

I guess the code could default to if not found >> use the Crystalyte because of one of the tables missing the Leaf.

 

[calab]

Need to include the dimensions of the Leaf 35mm in the spoke calculator and I noticed just now the Leaf 35mm is not in the trip simulator either.

 

[The Toecutter]

Notice the very small difference in flange spacing... ( the stator width cannot exceed the width of that )

My best guess is the 2kw motor is the 35mm wide one.

Leafbike makes all this clear as mud..

Will it fit in 135mm dropouts? If so and there is an actual increase in stator width, I need to order one for the KMX. I tried the 1500W 3T at 10 kW, and the launch is faster than most new cars, at least when I can get the rear tire to hook up. But my 48V pack limits it to 50 mph. This is without the body on it, as I'm still working on that new shell, but given the voltage limit, I suspect the new body won't make much difference without a voltage increase.

I need to build a 108V pack and get a PowerVelocity controller to handle it. The next body is based on the Milan SL velomobile I purchased, but widened and scaled to fit and remaining proportional to the Milan's initial shape, with some concessions made to practicality such as increased ground clearance and accessible front wheels. Hoping to only need 4-4.5 kW to maintain 100 mph on flat ground.

I love my "bicycle", and want to make it much faster than it currently is. The cops don't seem to love my "bicycle" though, but there hasn't been anything they can do about it thus far.

 

[Rix]

"The cops don't seem to love my "bicycle" though, but there hasn't been anything they can do about it thus far"

I am certain there is at least one cop that likes your bike.

 

[neptronix]

I noticed a month or two ago that the Grin simulator doesn't create useable hyperlinks for the Leaf motor anymore. Typically, you select your motor and custom parameters, then hit the simulate button. When you do that, the URL at the top updates to include the motor and any other custom settings (battery, controller, etc.). That works for any motor but the Leaf for some reason.

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...

ebikes.ca

I think there may be a cross reference between the Leaf and the Crystalyte motor. The simulator takes the custom settings from the Leaf, and runs them on the Crystalyte, even though the URL points to the Leaf. After the error message, the Leaf can be selected from the drop down and then simulate, and the output changes, but the URL stays the same (still the Leaf motor). Hitting Refresh makes the error pop up again, and inserts the Crystalyte back in place of the Leaf.

I guess the code could default to if not found >> use the Crystalyte because of one of the tables missing the Leaf.

This appears to be fixed ( might want to shift-refresh a few times to pick up the new JS )

 

[E-HP]

This appears to be fixed ( might want to shift-refresh a few times to pick up the new JS )

Works! Thx

 

[Bullfrog]

Question on what I can order from Leaf...I want to buy the 26" wide rim conversion kit but I want to run it with the 72v/80A controller that Leaf offers which also comes with a color display. Can I substitute the 72v/80A Controller/Display for the one that normally comes in the kit so I don't end up with two controllers and two displays or do I have to buy both controllers/displays to use my 72v battery?
Thanks