...let me try! [low-cost street bike] -- last steps...

[silvocross]

Hi guys, I'm an italian student of mechanical engineering so, first of all, please forgive me for my bad language.

I'm following you for a while, so it's time to share my little project.

here in italy gasoline is 1.80 €/l, so the goal of this project is to build up a cheap experimental bike to reduce the gasoline consumption of my daily movements, especially home <=> university (about 15km per day).

apart from the main components such as motor, batteries ecc, I'm trying to keep it as much homemade as I can.

havent't got a mill, so you will never see that fantastic aluminium machined motor mounts and so on....

as always I'll use the huge C80-100, but I'd like to try the new turnigy dlux hv-160A powered from 4 motorbike 12v 12Ah batteries.

starting from a sketch:

i cut out an old mtb and rebuilt the frame, making it longer for stability and larger to contain the components,

The motor arrived yesterday and I just bought the toothed gears for primary reduction (17/90), the secondary reduction is (24/42).

I've got exams till march, so I'll work so slowly.

have you got suggestions?
thanks a lot, Silvio.

 

[Whiplash]

pretty cool! I would at least go with a shock fork though!

 

[silvocross]

pretty cool! I would at least go with a shock fork though!

thanks whiplash, surely the first upgrade will be shock fork and disk brakes, but i first wanna be sure that all is working! what about the controller? I'm very doubtful about it..

 

[Uteanooga]

Lots of room for batteries in there. Looking great

 

[Whiplash]

pretty cool! I would at least go with a shock fork though!

thanks whiplash, surely the first upgrade will be shock fork and disk brakes, but i first wanna be sure that all is working! what about the controller? I'm very doubtful about it..

I think the controller will be ok if you are always sure to pedal first before using the throttle. From what I understand about the RC controllers they cannot handle the high peak amps from a dead stop.

 

[panurge]

Ciao Silvio!!!!

It's good that more people from Europe (and Italy indeed) starts to be active in the ES community......so, BENVENUTO...

I love the "fast" and cheap approach you are putting in this build, people has to understand that playng with electric conversions could be also easy and affordable (even more with petrol fuels at our prices....) and a funny build experience....

That said I'm not an expert here, but I have an 80-100b too, however, I've used it only for some tests right now.....but I see, here, that more than one guy use it with satisfaction ( related to it's cheap price and it's huge power potential), so for what I know, you have basically 2 options:

1: use an HV RC ESC like you suggest or like the CC HV ones (until 12s) but you need to be careful with the voltage of your Batteries cause these escs are made to run with Max 12s of 3.7v batteries like LiPos, that's not 48v, plus you may have issues also with the ESC's voltage cutoff and SLA (piombo).

2: fit hall sensors on it and use a sensored ESC for E-vehicles like infineons, better if modded by some of the esc's gurus here, with the huge power/amps flow that your motor/application is able to output/ask.

I think the bad of these motors are bearings and windings above all, it seems to me that the best results with the 80-100 are achieved by rewind it and using better bearings....

For sure you can find suggestions from more experienced guys, here......

I've more knowledge about frames......feel free to ask for anything there..... :wink:

Jules

 

[recumpence]

Very nice first build. You are "Jumping into the deep end of the pool"! I like bold projects.

The frame you built looks to be a good foundation for what you are doing. The 80-100 is a powerful motor for the price. Hopefully the quality of yours is good. They are great motors if they are wound well and bearings are replaced.

Welcome to the Dark Side.

Matt

 

[Lebowski]

this doesn't look like trying but like a cool project,
buon fortuna amigo !

 

[silvocross]

wow guys, I did not expect all this interest, thanks!

today i received the last few things:

maybe tomorrow will be lathe time, but still don't know if my reduction is sufficient.

here my calculations:

kV = 130
U = 52V (maximum for sla batteries, i suppose)      =>    n = 6760rpm     i considered a 70% under load, so    n = 4732rpm

first reduction              17-90
second reducion          24-42
rear weel                       26"

with this configuration i should get 64km/h (39 miles/h)

this would be cool, but isn't a little too much for the motor/esc?

 

[silvocross]

1: use an HV RC ESC like you suggest or like the CC HV ones (until 12s) but you need to be careful with the voltage of your Batteries cause these escs are made to run with Max 12s of 3.7v batteries like LiPos, that's not 48v, plus you may have issues also with the ESC's voltage cutoff and SLA (piombo).

According to the datasheet, the ESC can handle 6-12S lipo and up to 36 NiCd/NiMh cells.
Maximum voltage for NiCd cells should be 1.65V, so a total of 59.4V for 36 cells.

2: fit hall sensors on it and use a sensored ESC for E-vehicles like infineons, better if modded by some of the esc's gurus here, with the huge power/amps flow that your motor/application is able to output/ask.

I would really love to use a sensored controller, but i read a lot of posts and it appears a bit difficult, so for the first tests i'll go with a sensorless one.
Maybe next power step will include a sensored controller, I've already played with microcontrollers and so on, and I'd really like to build my own one that will assure regenerative braking (the coolest thing of e-vehicles, in my opinion).

But, first of all that, the bike has to work, so I wanna keep it as simple as I can, for now.

I've more knowledge about frames......feel free to ask for anything there..... :wink:

I'm sure that time will come soon

 

[panurge]

Hi Silvio

According to the datasheet, the ESC can handle 6-12S lipo and up to 36 NiCd/NiMh cells.
Maximum voltage for NiCd cells should be 1.65V, so a total of 59.4V for 36 cells.

mmmh......I think they are 50v rated, but I'm not sure about the turnigy ESC.....the best thing should be to have the exact Voltage rating of the device...if you compare the dlux HV datasheet with the HV CC Controllers one, you can see that the cells specs are the same:

max 12s LiPo
max 36 cells NiCd/NiMh

But Castle also say:

max 50V

and I don't see any reason because an esc could be used at max 50v with one chemistry and 10v more with another...

1.65V for a Ni-Cd is more than I have ever heard.....they are 1.2 nominal....from what I know they are stable in voltage and maybe 1.3x V charged.......anyway, as said, I'm not an expert in electronics....

Regards and Complimenti

Jules

 

[GrayKard]

I'm guessing you are very tall because that is a huge frame. I would have to lay down on top of it to reach the handlebars.

How fast do you intend to go because I would want more head angle for much above 20mph. With that angle I think it would be pretty twitchy at 30 or more.

Love the frame, it will hold lots of batteries.

Gary

 

[silvocross]

Just a little update..

The transmission (2 steps) is done and I finished the frame welding the battery holders.
Now it's time to wire it up, it will take a week I think.

 

[Whiplash]

Wont those bare open ears present a problem?

 

[Byte]

Very interesting, never seen a build with gears. I was thinking about that too but nobody had done it before here on ES so I also made a chain drive. Will be following this one!

 

[hotschott]

Hi,

I've made a stand up scooter powered by a 80/100/180 my controller is a dlux 160 and I recommend to add capacitors if you lengthen the battery wires. I've 7km and it seems to work well. Don't try to start from standstill or it will burn.

 

[silvocross]

Wont those bare open ears present a problem?

The gears doesn't interfere, by the way I've to reduce the thickness of the bigger gear yet.
Obviously, all the transmission will be enclosed by a plastic cover made by a thermoforming process, I've already had some testings with it before: http://progettosilvio.altervista.org/joomla/index.php/make/69-costruire-un-copricarter-termoformato. (I'm sorry it isn't translated yet)

 

[silvocross]

Hi,

I've made a stand up scooter powered by a 80/100/180 my controller is a dlux 160 and I recommend to add capacitors if you lengthen the battery wires. I've 7km and it seems to work well. Don't try to start from standstill or it will burn.

Thanks mate, happy to see someone using this new controller without problems.
I bought 6 of this capacitors, do you think they're good for that?
http://www.ebay.it/itm/300452796579?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Which settings did you choose for the esc?

 

[hotschott]

Capacitors seems to be good (low ESR)

I left the default settings on the controller. Be careful to set the right number of cells you use (default setting is 10S). I will try to change the timing for high but I think it will produce more heat..not sure. With my configuration of 12s 10Ah I had peaks of 5000 Watts while accelerating.

http://www.evalbum.com/preview.php?vid=3912

Not finished yet on the pictures.

 

[bandaro]

Looks good, the reduction may be a little high for rc controllers, they tend no to take the high amp draw of fast starts too well, so I would recommend you go easy on it like most rc drives. Once its going it shouldn't be too much of a problem though.

As for the gear cover, that's exactly how I made some covers myself, if you're at university then there is a good chance the workshop has one or the guy knows how to use them, they are a cheap machine. As a side note, thermoforming is the manufacturing class, the process you will be using is more commonly known as Vacuum forming, or just vac form. So if you search that on youtube you will get a few hits on making a machine as well.

Looking forwards to seeing the finished product!

 

[silvocross]

sigh...

now I've to rewind it with a couple of 16awg copper wire, this will be my first motor re-winding, i hope for a good result..

 

[Andje]

There is lots of info on here about RC motor rewinding, and plenty more on RC forums. It is reportedly a blistery hassle, but you can substantially increase the reliability of that motor as well as repair at the same time.
I love the direct geared tranny; that is one of only two or three geared bikes on the sphere. Good luck with the rest of your project! We are all rooting for you!

 

[silvocross]

There is lots of info on here about RC motor rewinding, and plenty more on RC forums. It is reportedly a blistery hassle, but you can substantially increase the reliability of that motor as well as repair at the same time.
I love the direct geared tranny; that is one of only two or three geared bikes on the sphere. Good luck with the rest of your project! We are all rooting for you!

Thanks andje, I found some threads here about rewinding the turnigy, but I'm still a little confused. I've got to study the original stator and see how I can rewind it without changing the kv too much.

Yesterday I had an university test that went fine, so in the afternoon I decided to prepare the frame for the painting, instead of studying...

 

[recumpence]

There is lots of info on here about RC motor rewinding, and plenty more on RC forums. It is reportedly a blistery hassle, but you can substantially increase the reliability of that motor as well as repair at the same time.
I love the direct geared tranny; that is one of only two or three geared bikes on the sphere. Good luck with the rest of your project! We are all rooting for you!

Thanks andje, I found some threads here about rewinding the turnigy, but I'm still a little confused. I've got to study the original stator and see how I can rewind it without changing the kv too much.

Yesterday I had an university test that went fine, so in the afternoon I decided to prepare the frame for the painting, instead of studying...

You should have that bad boy powder-coated. It is far more durable.

Matt

 

[silvocross]

You should have that bad boy powder-coated. It is far more durable.

Matt

uh, thanks Matt.
I did it before with my dirtbike, but it's a bit expensive for a low cost street bike, so I've just gave it an anti-rust coat and then a first layer of paint.

today I bought the 16AWG wire for the motor, maybe tomorrow night i can rewind it.

thanks guys for following! :wink: