LIFEPO4 from Ebikes.ca
- Thread starter OLIVIER
- Start date
I don't think anyone on this forum has one yet, and i've been itching to know more about it !
Please let us know when you get it !!!!
cheers!
Please let us know when you get it !!!!
cheers!
Q-Bike
100 µW
Ebikes.ca has a solid reputation for good (tested) products and good service (I've bought there most off my ebike components exept battery). I won't worry about their LiFePO4 batteries, Justin must have tested it before putting it on sale. Anyway keep us informed!
recumbent
100 kW
I've ordered the 48 volt block & charger, sent the money yesterday, hope i get it this week.
After waiting for a month or so till Lifebatt and CMS got thier issues sorted out, got fed-up and pulled the trigger on these, hope they work out well. We'll keep you guys informed.
After waiting for a month or so till Lifebatt and CMS got thier issues sorted out, got fed-up and pulled the trigger on these, hope they work out well. We'll keep you guys informed.
Recumbent, I was also waiting for the LIFEBATT but summer is alsmost here and I want to complete my bike conversion ASAP.
My pack is in the mail but I am away on a trip to Toulouse until next thursday :x . I will post news when I receive the pack.
My pack is in the mail but I am away on a trip to Toulouse until next thursday :x . I will post news when I receive the pack.
oatnet
1 MW
OLIVIER said:
Good thinking. It is hard to imagine how much daily LiFePO4 riding pleasure I would have missed in the past 6-7 months if I had waited for lifebutt, instead of ignoring Hardon's claims that my Chinese Life packs would die in 3 months.
Justin and Ebikes.ca are a quality outfit that seem genuinely interested in fostering the green revolution, I'll be very interested to hear how their LiFe offering works for you.
-JD
More like LiEButtâ„¢
As in 'out of his'.
As in 'out of his'.
GGoodrum
1 MW
I guess Justin must've finally worked through his balancing/BMS issues he originally described, because I also agree it would be totally out-of-character for him to sell something that he hadn't personally tested/verified. His reputation precedes him. 
As for the LiFeBatts, it really isn't Don's fault. They decided early on to leave the ebike market to Bob, and then Bob and I. The problem is that we had to solve the CMS/LVC/CMS issue, which took an inordinate amount of time, from a technical point-of-view, and we never really solved the BMS cost issue, which made it so the prices we'd hae to charge for these too far above where I think they need to be, which is about what Justin is charging. What is really a bummer is that I now have finally figured out how to build LVC-equiped packs and actually get under Justin's prices, and then use external balancers once in awhile, but LiFeBatt has decided that can't even supply cells destined for ebike use, much less ready-made packs. That's a real shame because I really think the only cells out there that are even close to having similar performance to a123s are the LiFeBatt cells.
I'm now researching the possibility of finding some cells that have similar characteristics as the LiFeBatts, but who know how long this will take. In the meantime, I'm going to revisit doing something with the 300+ a123 cells I still have. Maybe I figure out a better "kit" for building 12s and 16s packs out of these.
-- Gary
As for the LiFeBatts, it really isn't Don's fault. They decided early on to leave the ebike market to Bob, and then Bob and I. The problem is that we had to solve the CMS/LVC/CMS issue, which took an inordinate amount of time, from a technical point-of-view, and we never really solved the BMS cost issue, which made it so the prices we'd hae to charge for these too far above where I think they need to be, which is about what Justin is charging. What is really a bummer is that I now have finally figured out how to build LVC-equiped packs and actually get under Justin's prices, and then use external balancers once in awhile, but LiFeBatt has decided that can't even supply cells destined for ebike use, much less ready-made packs. That's a real shame because I really think the only cells out there that are even close to having similar performance to a123s are the LiFeBatt cells.
I'm now researching the possibility of finding some cells that have similar characteristics as the LiFeBatts, but who know how long this will take. In the meantime, I'm going to revisit doing something with the 300+ a123 cells I still have. Maybe I figure out a better "kit" for building 12s and 16s packs out of these.
-- Gary
disndat
100 W
Hey Gary would you consider building 10s4p A123 packs?
Toshi
10 kW
I haven't received the goods, but earlier this week I ordered a 48V 12Ah LiFePO4 pack from Justin @ ebikes.ca.
From their front page:
From their front page:
Lithium Iron Phosphate Situation
As mentioned in the last web update, we did receive the shipment of 4C rated LiFePO4 battery packs. However, we have not put them up for sale yet because our testing has shown a few issues that we wanted to resolve. For those who don't care about juicy battery details, feel free to skip the next few paragraphs.
--------------- Lots of Tech Content Below ----------------------
Last year we sampled a number of LiFePO4 battery manufacturers looking to find one that delivered appreciable discharge currents yet also came in a finished looking and robust package. The one that we settled with not only met these requirements, it also came with a fairly advanced switched capacitor cell-balancing battery management system (BMS). This BMS did cell balancing splendidly, but it had the defect that it would continue to bleed a small amount of current from the cells even after the pack was flat and the BMS had cutout. If the battery was drained flat and then stored for several months, the BMS itself could actually end up discharging the cells all the way to zero volts and causing permanent damage.
These were at our request replaced with a new BMS circuit that would have virtually no quiescent current, causing some of the original delays to the shipment. As a downside though, it turns out that the rate of cell balancing with this new BMS is many orders of magnitude less than with the prior circuit. When we began testing the packs from this shipment we were typically only getting between 10 to 11.5 amp-hours out of them, due to the cells not being balanced. By opening up the packs and individually discharging those cells that are more charged than the rest of the pack, and topping up those cells that are running low, we've been able in almost every case to restore a full 12 amp-hours of available capacity. The images below shows a case in point.
The original pack as we received it was only delivering 8 amp-hours. You can see that there is not a very pronounced roll-off in the cell voltage before it shuts off, indicating that it was just 1 or 2 cells at a low state of charge causing the BMS to cutout. After opening the pack up we identified a single cell that was low, charged it up independently from the others in the pack, and afterwards it tested out perfectly. Most of the time it isn't so simple, and there are several cells both low and high that need to be adjusted and a few testing iterations before the capacity to reaches 12Ah.
So what next?
We have been going through all the batteries one by one in this manner and ensuring that each pack is balanced and delivers its rated capacity, and then re-sealing them. However, we still have some reservation about selling these until we are confident that the cells won't gradually go out of balance again in your hands. Ideally the amount of cell balancing by the BMS at the end of the charge cycle is sufficient to counter any natural deviations in cell leakage currents and BMS sense currents, and then this will be so. There are naturally a lot of tests going on at our end and a lot of back and forth with the manufacturer to get to the bottom of it, and we may decide in the end to replace the BMS circuits across the board.
--------------- End of Heavy Tech Content ----------------------
Can I buy one?
The answer is yes, but only if you read the above paragraphs and fully understand and accept the implications. There is a small but finite possibility that the battery over time might go out of balance resulting in a reduced usable capacity, and you may have to open up and either service individual cells or replace the BMS circuit down the road if this is the case. We have a slow but steady stream of 24V, 36V, and 48V packs that are coming off the end of the testing/balancing cycle.
Update Apr 14th - Our final testing of the BMS shows that it does do cell balancing at an acceptable rate at the end of the charge cycle, and packs that are out of balance do slowly get better each time the packs is used and then recharged. The only situation we can forsee where the batteries could drift out of balance again is if they are stored for prolonged periods of time without use.
I have two 36v 12ah packs from ebikes and will let you know how they work. They will sell them but cannot promise anything and They will need monitoring to make sure they stay balanced but I think with what else is available are a good choice and each pack is tested and delivers what they say. I get 41.5v hot off the charger and they charge in 8 hours or less. The packs peak high amperage and deliver 40amps continuous no problem.
recumbent
100 kW
Yep, got mine last week also and took it out for a tester today, Traveled total of 33KMs
Max speed was 45 kms
Total AH=8.1
Total ride time =1hourand25min
Still had lots of juice left but it started to "skip" or pulse after about an hour or so only when full throttle. But when i stopped for a snack it fixed itself but started to skip (when full throttle) again after 15 minutes.
Max speed was 45 kms
Total AH=8.1
Total ride time =1hourand25min
Still had lots of juice left but it started to "skip" or pulse after about an hour or so only when full throttle. But when i stopped for a snack it fixed itself but started to skip (when full throttle) again after 15 minutes.
I rode my bike today and it is awesome!!!
It is my first time on an ebike and the feeling is really great. The controller is programmed for 32 kph and I was going at that speed all the time! It felt really fast!
It was raining and my custom made fenders worked perfectly. Later this weekend I should do a range check.
It is my first time on an ebike and the feeling is really great. The controller is programmed for 32 kph and I was going at that speed all the time! It felt really fast!
It was raining and my custom made fenders worked perfectly. Later this weekend I should do a range check.
recumbent
100 kW
OLIVIER said:
I'm not sure what the range is on mine yet, but 2 Hrs riding time (without pedaling) is about the max. However when it does run down the power cuts out flat with little warning, except a couple volts lesser on the readout beforehand. I read this condition before on Endless sphere, but was still shocked at how it just cuts dead, and your peddaling home.
But the good news is there is tons of range, so much so that after almost a week of use and I'm still not sure how far i can go cause it lasts so long you cannot do it in one sitting. 12 amp/hr of LIFEPO4 is plenty of range, but for extensive riding and "opportunity charging" it is best to have a charger over the 2.5 amp we got with our battery.
Enjoy your summer of ebiking.
Johnbear
10 kW
I've seen them up close, they look well constructed. Better than the duct tape ones by far!
recumbent
100 kW
Johnbear,
Do you mean you seen the insides of the battery packs?
They never heat-up, even long uphill drives after an hour use.
Do you mean you seen the insides of the battery packs?
They never heat-up, even long uphill drives after an hour use.
Joey
100 W
I was also disappointed by the LifeBatt and BMS saga. I briefly considered both A123 and Li-Mn alternatives, but decided in the end to place an order for a 36V 12Ah LiFePO pack and charger from ebikes.ca.
-- Joey
-- Joey
I did my first 20 km ride with no loss of power. So far it seems very good.
I did not install the brake handles with cut-off switches that came with my motor kit but used the connector in the controller to add a on-off switch instead. This way I can turn the bike off without having to unplug the anderson connector that came with the battery.
While charging the battery, the green light came "on" on the charger for a few minutes indicating full charge, but then it turned red again for more charging and finally returned to green?? Some kind of cycling? I have the 2.5 Amps charger which otherwise works well.
Ebikes are cool, what a rush! Peak speed today (with some pedalling): 37.5 kph.
I did not install the brake handles with cut-off switches that came with my motor kit but used the connector in the controller to add a on-off switch instead. This way I can turn the bike off without having to unplug the anderson connector that came with the battery.
While charging the battery, the green light came "on" on the charger for a few minutes indicating full charge, but then it turned red again for more charging and finally returned to green?? Some kind of cycling? I have the 2.5 Amps charger which otherwise works well.
Ebikes are cool, what a rush! Peak speed today (with some pedalling): 37.5 kph.
kbarrett
10 kW
OLIVIER said:
If the BMS detects a low cell at full charge, it will drain the other cells to balance. This causes the charger to crank up again to recharge the slightly discharged pack.
I have now done 160 km with the 36V-12Ah pack! My 22 km commute to work is really nice.
The major concern I have are the potholes, cracks and other canyons I can find on our roads...
My average speed is 25kph because of all the stops I do but my steady speed with very light pedaling is 32kph.
The pack is slightly warm when I get home, not much. It is all padded with soft foam in my toolbox...
The major concern I have are the potholes, cracks and other canyons I can find on our roads...
My average speed is 25kph because of all the stops I do but my steady speed with very light pedaling is 32kph.
The pack is slightly warm when I get home, not much. It is all padded with soft foam in my toolbox...
Toshi
10 kW
Olivier, have you tested your pack to see how many Ah you can extract from it? My 48V 12Ah petered out at just over 9Ah yesterday and I'm curious as to whether this holds true across the board.
kbarrett
10 kW
The ping pack I bought from arbiker was originally rated at 18Ah, but I can get, at best 16.5 Ah.
He has since downrated those packs to 15 Ah.
I think the problem is that the original prismatic cell specs were a bit optimistic, and the battery makers took the cell factory at their word.
Which is why justin is selling these as "not ready for retail" ... he is learning that what the Chinese factory rep says, and what the product actually does, are two different animals entirely.
He has since downrated those packs to 15 Ah.
I think the problem is that the original prismatic cell specs were a bit optimistic, and the battery makers took the cell factory at their word.
Which is why justin is selling these as "not ready for retail" ... he is learning that what the Chinese factory rep says, and what the product actually does, are two different animals entirely.
With my 2.5Amps charger, it takes 3 hours to recharge after a 22 km ride.
Voltage before the 22km ride: 40.3V
Voltage after the 22km ride: 39.4V
I dont know the actual Ah.
Ebikes.ca tested the packs to verify the capacity. I have pack EC0006.
Voltage before the 22km ride: 40.3V
Voltage after the 22km ride: 39.4V
I dont know the actual Ah.
Ebikes.ca tested the packs to verify the capacity. I have pack EC0006.
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