LifePo4 reliability

[bikerdude100]

Hello,
I'm switching to Lifepo4s from whatever and have done way too much research without talking to anyone. I'm thinking of Getting a Chrystalyte kit or motor with their recommended test bike through Walmart(bike costing about $60). When I called a company, i'm pretty sure the guy pretty much suggested that LifePos4 are currently a potential nightmare to deal with (they stop working/charging without warning). I'm convinced that the Phoenix Brute or the brushless roadrunner 4820's wopuld be the best motors, could anyone tell me if SLAs are that much more reliable, and is there a way to extend the range that wouldn't be too heavy? I weigh about 150, and I would want the option of carrying or towing 100 extra lbs. ( yes, I want it all!) on top of it. I'm hoping for a 30 mile+ range, even if I have to use 2 chargers at once, and I'm hoping that a lifepo could do it, for obvious reasons. I was even going to order the batts from China through ebay, but if there is a stateside source that's easy to deal with, I'd appreciate the info.
Thanx to anyone willing to deal with this excessively needy tag of questions,
B100.

 

[Ypedal]

Welcome to ES !

LiFePo4 works good when used properly, pushing the limits of a cheap pack with a big motor is a recipe for disaster and disapointment... :wink: been there. done that.

However, it is certainly possible to do it right !

check the " For Sale " section, there is a group buy going on for " Headway " cells.. these will work on an X5 ( or brute as electricrider.com likes to call them ) , other options are PSI or A123 cells from DeWalt packs but the dewalt solution is quite complicated if you are new to batteries...

SLA is reliable, but too heavy and too much of a pain in the butt as they are needy when it comes to charging, you can't let them sit empty.. you have to charge them after every ride. like right away type thing.. or they die quickly.

 

[Ypedal]

what's your skill level ? you an Electrical Engineer ? or do you buy your tools at the dollar store type guy ? lol...

 

[julesa]

Unfortunately the headway group buy is now closed to new buyers. They're already talking about setting up the next one, but I think it will probably be a while. There's another thread around here somewhere about a guy building custom A123 packs for pretty cheap... though for a 30+ mile range with a large motor towing 100 lbs that would still be really expensive...

You could also contact Victoria directly and order a custom pack. Her e-mail is chcj55@gmail.com

 

[mrgarci1]

I think the Headway group buy was just for cells & BMS units, not for fully built packs, so don't kick yourself over that - unless you are trying to build up a pack. Buying a ready-made pack from Victoria is def. a good way to go for a high-quality pack. Or at least, for high-quality cells - some folks are upset about the packaging of the batts, and one of my BMS sense wires did come unsoldered.

Caveat emptor is a constant concern when buying LiFePO4, as most (all) of the manufacturers are in China, and either you take a risk on that, or you pay extra to a retailer who's importing the packs to the US (but who may provide some warranty/convenience factor that buying direct won't). But Victoria is very reputable (on this board at least) and is very attentive to customer service - I'd recommend her & Headway to anybody who asked.

 

[snowranger]

I'd recommend pingbattery.com. The customer service is second to none, and there is a new higher C rate version out.

 

[huskydave]

My advice is get a cheaper kit. Make some mistakes with the cheaper gear, post questions, learn and then get a more powerful setup. Too many people try to build a powerfull bike and because they overlook the simple things that experience will teach you, they start blowing all kinds of money out the window. Newcomers should build a lower power bike, learn some lessons and then upgrade after you have some experience. Lithium batteries are the cream of the crop but.. they need a well designed bms to go with them + a good charger/balancer and people see cheap lithium packs on ebay and expect them to run a powerfull bike and it just won't work. If you are not too experienced buy a prebuilt pack but make sure it can deliver the power you require. You need to ask the builder How many amps can it put out continuous? How many cycles can I use before it dies? How many amphours can it deliver before low voltage cuttoff? What are the dimmensions of the pack? What kind of warranty do you offer with said motor/controller? Look at the specs and see if it matches your overall budget and plan everything out ahead of time. If you have any questions someone here will give you the right answer on this forum but try to take their advice and you will be glad you did.

 

[dogman dan]

I'm getting a feeling you are reading a website that sells clyte stuff from the USA. Before you buy anything, look at a canadian site, ebikes-ca.

I agree, starting out with 530x crystalite motor can be a bit of an adventure. But it all depends on what you expect out of the bike. The big motors are power hogs, so the battery purchase options get more complicated, unless you are going very short distances, where sla's can still do the job fine.

So if I assume you need, say, 10 mile round trips, 20 mph, and weigh 250 or less, the smaller crystalyte motors would be fine. Most of the lifepo4 batteries avalible will run them too, but with some caveats like buying from a trusted vendor, and expecting less from the cheapest guy on ebay.

On the bike itself, I'd stay away from the very cheapest bike, often sold as roadmaster brand. Look for something without the bent iorn rod for a crank, and look for brakes that are two piece rather than the ones that attach with one bolt at the top. I just put 3000 miles on a cheap bike, but it is one price point above the roadbastard. The key thing with any of the cheapies is keeping em tuned up. Even expensive bikes can wear fast if something is wrong, and you can be assured the wallmart has no bike mechanic.

My list of trusted vendors is as follows in no particular order. Ampedbikes, High tech bikes, Ebikes-ca, and Ebike kit tm. For batteries, any of the above vendors sell good stuff, and also battery only vendors, pingbattery, and for a round cell (heavier but cheaper) lifepo4, cammy cc on ebay.

All these people above actually have some customer service, and none of em exaggerate the performance of the produts they sell. Nobody gets 20 miles at 20 mph out of sla batteries :lol: but you see claims like that all the time. For a reference point, my bike, An aotema motor from high tech bikes, goes 23 mph, and I get 23 miles at that speed out of my 36v 20 ah pingbattery. At 12 mph, I can ride 40 miles.

Lifepo4 can have problems, as can any battery made of many cells. ebikes ca sells a lot of the next best things, nicad and nimh, that are reliable and just as easy to keep going as sla's.

 

[dogman dan]

Re reading the original post, I realise you do want to go fast, and far. So a stock recomendation if you are going to buy lifepo4 for a clyte 530x motor.

Pingbattery, 48v 15 ah. You need two of em, with shottkey diodes to connect them paralell, to have a 48v 30 amp battery. This will cost ya a bundle, but it will work, and go full throttle for the thirty miles, if not more. You need all 30 ah to have less strain on the cells, and then they will last. The other reason for two is so you can mount them pannier style, or one in the frame and one on a rear rack. To to that far that fast, you want a rear motor, with torqe arms.

It's a lot to ask of a bike, you you may want to upgrade another notch on the bike itself. The good bikes start where the forks use a 1 1/8 headset, where decent forks can be had. You want good suspension and brakes to go 30 + mph. Maybe the cheap bike works in kansas, but not in the rocky mountains!

Lots of other options exist for lifepo4 for a big motor, but most of em require some experience, or at least a mad scientist attitude to pull off. 30 mile range would take an awfull lot of drill batteries. Another good option is a ready made headway pack. I believe you can PM Victoria from this forum to order one. You will still need a big ol battery to go 30 miles full throttle though.

 

[bikerdude100]

I appreciate all this input, and to answer one question, no I am not technically fluent in a way that I'd like to be, but I have learned and can learn again. I'm seriously trying to decide between Victoria or Ping. Either way, I'd like to pay with paypal only if I get them to bypass my bank account and go straight to my debit account. Can I ask you about the Shottke diodes you recommended and how to parallel the batteries if I need to?

Your help appreciated in my ongoing search for mobility,
B100

 

[Ypedal]

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_connectors.php

Diode40a

It's a bit expensive compared to something you build yourself, but it's done right and all ready to go for you ! :wink:

 

[dogman dan]

Some stuff about diodes in the tech reference section too. Ebikes-ca will help you with hooking up anything you buy from them.

 

[mrgarci1]

I'm seriously trying to decide between Victoria or Ping. Either way, I'd like to pay with paypal only if I get them to bypass my bank account and go straight to my debit account.

Just a heads-up, the only way to pay for Headway batts is to send an int'l wire transfer - they don't use Paypal (it's very expensive for sellers). I have to admit I was scared sh*tless to just send $600 off to China with very little recourse if I got burned, but now I'm glad I did. Don't let the difficulty paying for it dissuade you if you decide on the Headway, it's worth it.

 

[jimw1960]

I appreciate all this input, and to answer one question, no I am not technically fluent in a way that I'd like to be, but I have learned and can learn again. I'm seriously trying to decide between Victoria or Ping. Either way, I'd like to pay with paypal only if I get them to bypass my bank account and go straight to my debit account. Can I ask you about the Shottke diodes you recommended and how to parallel the batteries if I need to?

Your help appreciated in my ongoing search for mobility,
B100

The 48v20ah ping battery will be perfect for a Crystalyte 408 motor (a.k.a. Roadrunner at ElectricRider) with a 48/25 controller. It will go up to 25 mph with a range of about 25 miles. Plus the 408 is about half the price of the X5 (Brute, Phoenix, etc.). If you do go with an X5, I wouldn't use a ping battery because the current draw will kill your battery life, unless you can afford to buy two and hook in parallel with the diode (your getting into big bucks at this point with two ping batteries and an X5 motor/controller). Really, 25 mph on an ebike is plenty fast as you will find out. Folks who go over 30mph are doing an experiment in Darwinism as cheap bikes simply are not made to take those kinds of stresses.

 

[bikeelectric]

Check out ebikekit.com , ampedbikes.com, and ebike.ca
All have a good reputation and have nine continent type hub motors that seem to suit everyone very well with good quality and performance. The ebikekit.com has a LifePo4 that was tested here...
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8452

Hello,
I'm switching to Lifepo4s from whatever and have done way too much research without talking to anyone. I'm thinking of Getting a Chrystalyte kit or motor with their recommended test bike through Walmart(bike costing about $60). When I called a company, i'm pretty sure the guy pretty much suggested that LifePos4 are currently a potential nightmare to deal with (they stop working/charging without warning). I'm convinced that the Phoenix Brute or the brushless roadrunner 4820's wopuld be the best motors, could anyone tell me if SLAs are that much more reliable, and is there a way to extend the range that wouldn't be too heavy? I weigh about 150, and I would want the option of carrying or towing 100 extra lbs. ( yes, I want it all!) on top of it. I'm hoping for a 30 mile+ range, even if I have to use 2 chargers at once, and I'm hoping that a lifepo could do it, for obvious reasons. I was even going to order the batts from China through ebay, but if there is a stateside source that's easy to deal with, I'd appreciate the info.
Thanx to anyone willing to deal with this excessively needy tag of questions,
B100.