LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Naw, it was only 186mph, cause I had forgot to flip my switch into the mode that has no top speed governor. I when i realized it had stopped pulling, I wasn't about to reach down to try to flip the switch. That was actually going up a long hill too.

I don't know why Suzuki decided that 186mph was a safe place to limit speed, but eh, whatever.
 
Going over 160mph my first time I remember thinking

"whats the big deal, this doesn't seem all that fast"

Then I tried to stop.........

The wear and tear on the brakes going from 160 - 150 - 140 - 130 - 120....

Ok, now they are boiling

110 - 100 - 90 -80

Ok, brakes have totally faded away, now downshifting to decelerate

70 - 60 - 50 - 40 - 30 - ....

Amazing.

My car will still go 150 (ok, downhilll) but I rarely go over 120 for fear of dropping another valve.
This motor came from the junk yard.

-methods
 
I am coming for you luke.
Like we talked about on the phone, big block in a small chassis.
I am doing your "typical" motorcycle setup but on my Kona Stink.

I am going to go with the Etek brushless
http://www.kellycontroller.com/shop/?mod=product&cat_id=16&product_id=116

From those dyno charts my controller will be perfect.
Unfortunately I am going to have to run it clockwise.

I am going to switch to 12S 44.4V 18Ah
Roll the current limit up to 220A

Dude, we have thrashed this thread.
When you finally get off your ass and finish your build you will probably just have to start a new one!
Serves you right for taking so long :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

-methods
 
Patrick, you might also want to consider the Agni. Many here, like Jozzer and Jay64, are using these and are getting more power than the Etek/MARS.

If it were me, I'd either try an AstroFlight 3220, or wait for David's new motor, both of which are fully capable of Etek/MARS/Agni-types of power levels, but a lot less weight. :roll:

-- Gary
 
When Davids totally awesome motor comes out, I'm going to buy a couple of them. That is, unless Methods all ready has an over driven Angi motor or something like that on his bike, that would mean I would need to buy two Angi motors :)

I'm a little frustrated that I can't seem to buy any SHV200s though... I basically offered Castle whatever they wanted to charge me for a pair of them, and they said, sorry, gotta wait for the next batch. Grrr...

But, It has inspired me to look into making my own, and Fetcher has been kind enough to offer some guidance in this, so I may actually pull it off. If I make my own, I want no less than 800v and 300amp capability. If that means needing giant SCRs that cost hundreds of bucks apiece, so be it. If I go through the trouble of making my own, I want to have the best EVER.
 
Hi Luke,

liveforphysics said:
When Davids totally awesome motor comes out, I'm going to buy a couple of them. That is, unless Methods all ready has an over driven Angi motor or something like that on his bike, that would mean I would need to buy two Angi motors :)

I'm a little frustrated that I can't seem to buy any SHV200s though... I basically offered Castle whatever they wanted to charge me for a pair of them, and they said, sorry, gotta wait for the next batch. Grrr...
Click to expand...

Email from Castle Support:
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:01:00 -0600
From: Support <support@castlecreations.com>

SHV I don't have a clue on...not sure what is going on with it right now...it's on hold.

Joe Ford
Product Specialist
Castle Creations
Click to expand...
 
Hi Luke,

liveforphysics said:
I'm a little frustrated that I can't seem to buy any SHV200s though... I basically offered Castle whatever they wanted to charge me for a pair of them, and they said, sorry, gotta wait for the next batch. Grrr...

But, It has inspired me to look into making my own, and Fetcher has been kind enough to offer some guidance in this, so I may actually pull it off. If I make my own, I want no less than 800v and 300amp capability. If that means needing giant SCRs that cost hundreds of bucks apiece, so be it. If I go through the trouble of making my own, I want to have the best EVER.
Click to expand...

Would this work for you (only 60v but 200a)?
Sine waveform controller:
http://www.sinusleistungssteller.de/sls602.html
SLS_403b.jpg


Could you afford it?:
EUR 850,30
Click to expand...

Maybe they'd make you a High Voltage Model.
 
I could afford them.

Maybe I will too, however, if I'm going to spend a couple grand on something, I would rather get something that I won't out-grow the first time I want to up voltage beyond 60v, which really is pretty low.

I'm pretty hot on the idea of making my own.

Base the final stage switching around something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120377332952#ht_926wt_908

That baby is obviously made for doing 3-phase motor controls. That could make for a 540KW motor controller. That would be some serious snort. You could run 278-S LiPo :shock:

But those power levels would be better suited towards a streetbike frame than a bicycle. Maybe I should go hunting Kilacycle :twisted:
 
As far as my bike project goes, I finally got some more work done on her today. Spent a few hours turning the rear support templates into real brackets. Didn't like how the first ones turned out, started over and made them again. The second ones are more ugly, but able to easily be removed, and very strong.

The first batch of metal I brought to my machinist just ended up pissing him off. He declared it "un-machinable" It was some kind of tool steel I happened to have laying around from the Boeing Areospace dumpster raiding days. I think it would have been too brittle, so it's likely for the best. He won't machine titanium anymore. We ended up going with 4140 stress-proof "super temper". The ends of the shafts are threaded, and the sprockets are threaded, and they fit together perfectly. I was planning to tig weld a little bead to lock them in place, but my dad coaxed me into doing the threads and recesses for set screws way so I can easily change sprocket size if desired.

It's coming along. I had hoped to be finished by now. Sadly, it turns out that if you don't have any time to work on your bike project, no elves come and do it for you while you are at work.

Best Wishes,
-Luke
 
Hey Luke,
Have you thought of using one of these drive belts for your setup?

004689-004690-004691%20ATV%20Drive%20Belt.jpg


I don't know pitch or anything, but it has teeth on the inside AND the outside.

BUT.... Now that I think about it there are more teeth on the inside than the outside, right? Maybe if one motor was slightly faster than the other, this could make up for any inconsistency? Just a passing thought. :?
 
Thanks for all the help and tips so far guys. It's getting closer to finished.

I took some new pictures.

The FETs inside the controller. I couldn't find a datasheet for them.

fetslargehv4.jpg


The little Atmel micro controller for the controller. This controller has no shunts in it at all. I don't know how it senses current.

controllerproclargeqq3.jpg


I lapped the ends of the motors to remove the anodizing and lapped the surface of the aluminum mount/heatsink to get the best possible thermal connection. It will be artic-silver epoxied on final assembly.
bearingslargeiu9.jpg


Checking for perfect bearing alignment with things, yup, it's perfect :)

boltinglargect3.jpg


Stopping for dinner.

dinnerlargesw7.jpg


Custom 12mm shafts made of some VERY hard steel. These shafts will never cause me any problems.

shaftslargefp8.jpg


Shafts need sprockets.

sproketslargegs5.jpg


The chain wrap around the sprockets for the final installation is not too far off of this pattern. That's #35 chain. 8t motor sprockets, 100t wheel sprocket. Or somewhere close to 100, I don't seem to remember exactly anymore, nor do I wish to count.

chainwraplargecl0.jpg




I have the balanceing and charging system all worked out, and all the big power connections and cables made. The attachment points to the frame are finally finalized and I'm satisfied with them. I just need to clamp everything aligned and in place, and then weld up the attachment between the frame brackets and the motor bracket.


Enjoy!

Best Wishes,
-Luke
 
Finally!

I was starting to think you either went broke or turned soft. :roll:

So how close is the chain to those socket head cap screws?

Looks to be a monster for sure but I will bet my $300 kit from china is faster :lol:


Very nice job son.

-methods
 
I love this build! I am a bit concerned about the motors, though. With such a killer bike setup, why the basic motors? I am not trying to criticize, but I will never understand the cheapo motor mindset on a monster bike build.

Anyway, I want to see some action! I am looking forward to some broken freewheel bits and spokes! :mrgreen:

Matt
 
I'm running these motors because I had 3 of them laying around on my project shelf. They use 0.3mm laminations in the core, and the copper fill is really not too bad. Don't worry! I will switch to CNCguy's motors when they become available. Maybe even do 4 of his motors, since I have 4 of the 100amp HV controllers laying around all ready.

I'm basically just playing around to get something with decent power I can try out and see if I like the feel of electric power. I rode a bionix thing not too long ago, and it was so painfully lame it almost soured me on even continuing the project, but I want to give something with decent power a shot. If I get hooked, then you wont have to worry about me wanting to run the very best possible motors out there.
 
Are you limited to using motor sprockets with such a small tooth count?

Will they be timing-synchronized by the drive chain alignment alone?

Most importantly, to me, what are you using for power lead connectors?

Nice machine work! :mrgreen:
 
I was going to use my big kelly controller and run them in series mechanically locked in time, BUT, the Kelly's don't have the switching speed to be good for anything but hub motors. :sadface: With a 12 pole motor, I would have been limited to 5,000rpm or something. Not nearly good enough. The controllers you see there can do 210,000 electric RPM, which for my 12 pole motors works out to be 17,500rpm controller limit. Using seperate and sensorless controllers for each motor should make the syncronization a non-issue.

Thank you for the kind words! I'm going to go spend a few hours on my project now :)

Best Wishes,
-Luke
 
liveforphysics said:
Using separate and sensorless controllers for each motor should make the synchronization a non-issue.
Click to expand...

Took the words right out of my mouth.
Good choice!

-methods
 
The shafts slide out of the stator bearings, and then it's a glued press fit into the rotor. How hard exactly? Very easy with the right tools. I didn't use the right tools though, I just used a bench vice and a copper drift and softly tapped them out after removing the set screws.

I kinda have this problem where I like to re-build things multiple times. After I finish making a part, I think of some way to make that part better, and then I just can't continue until I do it... I made some of these parts a number of times before I was finally satisfied. I'm working towards maximum strength and light weight. It looks like the bike minus batteries is going to be under 45lbs. I'm considdering the batteries in a backpack, but I'm not certian yet. I don't remember exactly, but I think those crystalite hubs are something like 25lbs alone aren't they? LOL!

I will try to take a couple more pictures for you guys.

Best Wishes,
-Luke
 
Very cool.

I know what you are dealing with in this. Multiple motors have efficiency losses versus one larger identially built motor. But, the controller technology is just not there right now. So, multiple motors are good because that is the only way you can run multiple controllers.

At any rate, you will love the torque curve of an electric drive. The highest power I have seen on my recumbent was 7kw. That gave me 0 to 35 mph in under 5 seconds. It was almost unbelieveable that 11 pounds of electric equipment (pack included) could do that! I was instantly hooked!

There is also the high efficiency side of this that is cool. I enjoy cranking hard, but also nursing the most distance out of every watt. It is cool being able to do both sides of this with one bike. Heck, even with your huge power setup, you will still have reletively decent efficiency (compared to an ICE).

Matt
 
More pictures of random stuff.

This first picture isn't of anything special, but I think it has a lot of symbolism in it. Perhaps integration? Perhaps future? I didn't stage this picture. I didn't want the batteries anywhere near where I was welding, so I set them on a different table. I enjoy seeing the representation of new clean power placed in the foreground on the white sheets of paper (to keep them clean), with the jugs of various racing fuels in the shadows of the background. The shadows and poor angles also lend towards creating a villian appearance to the ICE related equipment. The reality is that I love all those machines with all my heart. They make my adrenaline pump and my blood both flow and spill.


thefuturefp2.jpg



Now onto photos related to my build.

Here is some stuff related to the electronics of the E-bike. You can see the charger and balancer setup with HVC setup to handle 80amps of charge current (I'm only charging at 43amps peak though). You can also see some of the balance leads I made to enable me to run 8p Lipo for a 40Ah pack with indivdual cell balance if I want. I'm only going to run 20Ah to start with, but I'm wired to handle more if I need it.

randompartsjq7.jpg


A picture of the bike with some random stuff.

bike1hm4.jpg


A picture with the revised motor mount plate being held against the revised bracket. That is a 1.25" 6061 thick wall tube bent to go over the rear tire. The front mount is bronze bushed and mounted with an longer bolt through the suspension piviot. The bushing is setup to cause no added friction to the function of the suspension. Obviously the motor plate needs to be cut to size, but I'm not going to do it until I figure out exactly how I want it to all attach to the rest of the brackets, and still include the CPU heatsinks and fans.

bike2ip9.jpg


This picture is from the back side, showing some sort of idea of how the sprockets may be positioned. Not quite right though, as I want more of a wrap on the lower sprocket, but you can kinda get the idea.

sprocketlayoutec5.jpg


Enjoy!

Best Wishes,
-Luke
 
Looks good so far!

Are you planning to build anything to cover/protect the motors?

Looking at the pictures made me think of another possible configuration. If you mounted the motors on a common shaft, they could be mounted above the wheel, either in front of or behind the aluminum hoop with the chain running down beside the wheel.
 
Thanks Paul.

I thought about mounting them on a common shaft with a single sprocket in the center between the motors. However, I've learned from many years of abusing motocross bikes and other chain driven things, that for things with lots of suspension, the chain needs a helper to ensure it climbs straight into the rear sprocket with no funny business. I liked the idea of getting to use the other motor as both a tool to ensure a lot of degrees of chain wrap on the sprockets, and serve as a guide to ensure the chain sets down on the big sprocket cleanly. I will hopefully be more compact this way as well.

The motors may or may not get some sort of cover for them. That's going to be a frosting on the cake sort of thing though, at the moment my focus is just on getting this first proto-type version running smoothly.

I think my brackets could easily support a dirtbike engine. A built old school aircooled RM250 engine/tranny with about 45hp only weighs 30lbs or so... But first I'm definitely going to give electric power a good solid shot or two, and hopefully it will turn out great.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top