LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development
- Thread starter bzhwindtalker
- Start date
r3volved
100 kW
He's not running 450W, it's the 'small block' rated at 450W.
It became super popular when discovered it could take stupid wattage far beyond 450W.
It became super popular when discovered it could take stupid wattage far beyond 450W.
bzhwindtalker
100 kW
We may use the bigger 1kw Rated motors with machined motor plates for the pedal frame because the small one seems impossible to source!
thumbs up for the 1kw motor^^
btw, regarding "original" high kV BIG BLOCK motor and low kV BIG BLOCK ALTERNATIVE motor:
would't it be better to use the fast spinning type and gear it down more? Under load it should create much lower heat so more continuos power..
btw, regarding "original" high kV BIG BLOCK motor and low kV BIG BLOCK ALTERNATIVE motor:
would't it be better to use the fast spinning type and gear it down more? Under load it should create much lower heat so more continuos power..
bzhwindtalker
100 kW
madin88 said:
You are 100% right, the only adventage of the alternative is that's it is easyer to mount and to actually buy.
crossbreak
1 MW
bzhwindtalker said:
the alternative motor one has 50% more poles. 12 instead of only 8. so you can run it like 50% slower with the same efficiency as a rule of thumb.
i would use neither of both. If i pay a $$$$ for a bike i dont want a $$ motor :? 12 poles is still too little for a single reduction setup. 20 might be where fun begins, i'd go for a 28 or 36 pole motor with very thin lams if i had the choice.
crossbreak
1 MW
C120-70 (28poles), Rotomax 150cc (20poles)
They are both wound too fast for single reduction (150kv). But they come in Delta termination from factory and can be rewired in star to get them down to 87kv. And you have to add hall sensors. Sadly there is no off the shelf soltion so far. maybe ask at alienpowersystems to get one that is star terminated and has halls installed. wont be cheap though. Be aware: There are (or were i dont know) CA120-70 with thick 0.5mm laminations sold. Be sure you get one with thin 0.2mm lams.
Edit: The revolt RV-120 should be mentioned here as well but it has only 14 poles and has thick 0.5mm laminations, which makes it lossy just like the big blocks. And as it is an outrunner just like the other two mentioned above, it is more effort to mount and protect from dirt... so no real alternative for the simple "alternative" big block. At least it can be bought with halls preinstalled
The MAC geared hubmotor has 36 poles and 0.3mm lams. If one throws out the 1:5 reduction planetary gears and put in a second rotor+stator into the same size housing, it would make a really nice motor for a single chain reduction setup. Even possible to use two controllers then (or only one if desired)
They are both wound too fast for single reduction (150kv). But they come in Delta termination from factory and can be rewired in star to get them down to 87kv. And you have to add hall sensors. Sadly there is no off the shelf soltion so far. maybe ask at alienpowersystems to get one that is star terminated and has halls installed. wont be cheap though. Be aware: There are (or were i dont know) CA120-70 with thick 0.5mm laminations sold. Be sure you get one with thin 0.2mm lams.
Edit: The revolt RV-120 should be mentioned here as well but it has only 14 poles and has thick 0.5mm laminations, which makes it lossy just like the big blocks. And as it is an outrunner just like the other two mentioned above, it is more effort to mount and protect from dirt... so no real alternative for the simple "alternative" big block. At least it can be bought with halls preinstalled
The MAC geared hubmotor has 36 poles and 0.3mm lams. If one throws out the 1:5 reduction planetary gears and put in a second rotor+stator into the same size housing, it would make a really nice motor for a single chain reduction setup. Even possible to use two controllers then (or only one if desired)
crossbreak said:
why you would prefer motors with higher pole counts? whats the advantage? as example similar stator diameter and copper fill.
crystalyte X5xxx motors only have 12poles and good torque output.
crossbreak said:
i have thought of the same 8)
a MAC with twice the stator width would give a really powerful mid drive motor. though many controllers will not be able to push it to the limit because of ERPM limitation.
bzhwindtalker
100 kW
Those two motors are very costly/ require expensive controllers and I've only seen one setup on the forum that gave good results. The two are also unsealed outruners with bearings designed for much lighter axial loads.crossbreak said:
With the mods we are working on the "big block" will have a very nice thermal heat path directly to the frame, while having a very good airflow too while still being waterproof. We found new suppliers for them with really good quality, quite better than the big block alternative, and at a price that makes it worth to modify into something specific to our frame, and used structurally.
Basically we are making new end plates part of the frame.
This bike will be well within limits for the motor with 3kw peaks, 48v drive.
For info, this won't be a $$$$ frame, more a $$$ frame + custom hub + motor kit
--freeride--
100 W
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2011
- Messages
- 237
That sounds nice!
Count me in for one Frame/Motor/Hub.
If you are still at the design. A Fat Tire option (27.5x3.0) would be very nice. Although damper plates and dropout Plates that can easily be made for diffrent size shocks/wheels...
Count me in for one Frame/Motor/Hub.
If you are still at the design. A Fat Tire option (27.5x3.0) would be very nice. Although damper plates and dropout Plates that can easily be made for diffrent size shocks/wheels...
morati
10 kW
Just wondering when you might be bringing this to market? I am almost ready to buy my new bike for the upcoming spring/summer season......
crossbreak said:
Ive been looking at the revolts a lot lately, specifically the pro version with halls. It would easily outpower the GNG Alt motor, but mounting it would be tricky due the width. Id love to get a 120PRO into my Oset frame, but im no machinist!
scorpionice
10 W
Plus one for frame, motor and hub. Cheers
bzhwindtalker said:Those two motors are very costly/ require expensive controllers and I've only seen one setup on the forum that gave good results. The two are also unsealed outruners with bearings designed for much lighter axial loads.crossbreak said:
With the mods we are working on the "big block" will have a very nice thermal heat path directly to the frame, while having a very good airflow too while still being waterproof. We found new suppliers for them with really good quality, quite better than the big block alternative, and at a price that makes it worth to modify into something specific to our frame, and used structurally.
Basically we are making new end plates part of the frame.
This bike will be well within limits for the motor with 3kw peaks, 48v drive.
For info, this won't be a $$$$ frame, more a $$$ frame + custom hub + motor kit
Can you talk a little bit more about the new supplier and motor?
bzhwindtalker
100 kW
Not much more but quality is very good.
bzhwindtalker
100 kW
Joe T.
100 W
My first ebike had "motor plates" that bolted to the rest of the frame. Very similar to yours. I had a lot of creaking and flex noise from that design. I only used 1/4-28 bolts but I used a lot of them thinking it would be fine. This years re-design is different and so far, quiet. Just waiting for winter to end so I can see how it works out.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52793&start=25
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52793&start=25
--freeride--
100 W
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2011
- Messages
- 237
That is looking very good, is that a 34mm or a 44mm headtube?
