Magic Pie Motor

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Guys,

My friend Pat kindly told me I can mess around with his Pie when he gets his mac

So I have a few questions,

Firstly it's slow, @52 volts max speed is only 24 mph and I reckon I would need 86+ volts to reach 35-40 mph ?

The plan eventually is to keep my wonderful mac for road use and in the future get a good 2nd hand downhill bike for the woods with good suspension travel!

In the woods there are very steep hills some you can hardly walk up, they are short enough and will put any hub motor to the test, I also want to climb as fast as I can!

@2100 watts on a steep hill for a few miles max throttle the pie hardly gets warm at all and I'm confident it could take 3-5KW.

The mac has very good torque, however nothing compared to the mac, The mac @3kw is a complete hill eliminator, it truly is an amazing motor and I wish I could off road with it, but I'm afraid of breaking it. It gets hot on the same hill climb as the pie, but much faster of course pulling less wattage (1800 watts) but the pie stays cool at an extra 300 watts!

Also does anyone know why the mac controller frys my andersons on the phase wires of the pie and runs cool on the mac's thinner gauge wires that is something that has been puzzling me a lot!

IS there other motors that would be more suitable for the job ? this is a project that is a long way off but it's nice to be able to play with a free motor on an old bike.

Thanks

Mark

 

[snellemin]

I have the Magic Pie doing 44mph now. Acceleration is crazy, running on 85V. It will do hills just fine.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I have the Magic Pie doing 44mph now. Acceleration is crazy, running on 85V. It will do hills just fine.

Hi snellemin,

I see you use a sensorless controller, how does that work with the pie? did you replace the phase wires ?

And what watts are you feeding it and does the motor get hot ?


Mark

 

[snellemin]

I'm running the stock phase wires. I don't see the need to replace them as I'm not pulling more then 25A continuous at 40mph(with strong headwind). The motor is warm, but not hot. I only replace the motor wire connectors with 4mm bullets connectors.
Lyen sensorless controller works very well with the Magic Pie. I just don't use the sensor wires. I just push off a little bit and the controller is good to go. I have no need for a sensored system where I commute and I don't have to worry about failing sensors.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Snellemin,

I've been looking at your thread,

Did you regret going LiFep04 from LiPo and which do you prefer?

The thing I like about lipo is the ability to just add and subtract bricks to make up any voltage.

I would just have to add another 2x 6S 5ah bricks to make up 22S, 91.3 volts hot off the charger, I think that's 81.4 volts nominal so should be plenty!

hey do you use regen and what's it like at that voltage?


Mark

 

[snellemin]

I feel safer running A123's in the Texas summer. No regrets at all. When it cools off, I'll run lipo's again. I don't use regen braking at all. I would if I ran at a low enough voltage for the controller to survive the regen braking. Maybe use some TVS and caps in the future on my bike controller, just I do on my RC controllers.

Snelle

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I Must admit I do love regen.

Does anyone know why my mac controller melted my andersons on the motor phase wires on the pie and not on the mac with thinner wires?

I would be really happy to know that!

Snelle, Can Lyen not make the controller regen ready?


Mark

 

[snellemin]

Lyen can make the controller regen ready. I just have to send mine back to him and he'll enable it.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

While I'm waiting on halls from cell man, I got my old pie from pat who now is enjoying more power than the pie in a much smaller package!

Anyway, I connected the controller up to the laptop and set the phase to 70 and battery to 40 battery, on 16S LiPo I was getting 31 mph max in a strong headwind. Not bad. It does have lots of torque, but it just shows how good the mac is to be able to do 41 mph max hot off the charger and have better torque and be so small compared to the pie that's 10mph more than the pie for the same voltage.

I'm not saying the pie is not good, it is indeed and the torque is excellent too, the mac just has a broader spread of torque. However I think the pie might just handle very large currents for longer than the mac, the pie has lots of metal,to dissipate the heat better!

Of course the important thing for me is the ability to pedal, And boy is the pie a bitch to pedal. So the mac is a winner for sure in that regard!

Off roading is another advantage for the pie, No one knows yet if the mac with new gears can take off roading and I'm sure not going to take it on anything but the easiest of trails, though our roads could be classed as off road in some places!

I can't get regen going now, but I can live without it until I get my mac fixed!

For my next build I might put the pie on a downhill bike and up the voltage so I can take it off road for fun and keep the mac on my hardtail for exercise and assistance for hills!


Mark

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Everyone,

I went for a spin today with the Pie. I went up the same long steep hill as a test to compare to the mac.

It really flew up at between 28 on the steepest to around 30 mph.

On the 16S 52 volt ping the pie went up at about 19-22 mph max pulling around 2100 watts, and the mac flew up at about 28-30 mph while pulling around 1800 watts.

Now on 16S LiPo the pie flies up at 28-30 mph pulling 1800-2000 watts, pulling 3kw peak on acceleration!

I had a feeling all along that the 52 volt ping was what was holding the pie back in such a way that it would not allow the pie to be in it's efficiency zone and so was pulling more amps, because we all know motors are more efficient at faster rpm, right?

So the extra voltage of the 16S lipo allowed it to spin faster allowing it to be more efficient, even though the controller is set to higher amps it doesn't really matter because it would only pull 2000 max at 28-30 mph even on the steepest part and if I had the current set higher wouldn't matter because the motor did not want any more amps, obviously more voltage would get me up faster which would mean more watts, but because of more voltage not current!

I do think the pie is a very efficient motor if it's got the right voltage to allow it to spin faster so it's not bogging down!

I was happy with the result of the test and I really like regen, it makes braking a lot smoother!

But above all the phase wires were cool and the motor barely warm!

I'm very confident the pie will take 5kw constant and maybe 7kw peaks or more, some day I hope to test.

Again on 16S LiPo the Mac does 41 mph hot off the charger and the pie 33 max!


Mark

 

[dirtyginge]

mark...lipo lipo

The phase and connectors get hot due to a timing difference.....the mac motor has a different timing to the pie

If you switch the yellow and blue phase and hall wires, you should find all works fine ...

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Hi Ginge,

LiPo is good for you!

No problem with phase heating now, I must have had a phase wire wrong!

I'm glad my mac is running again it's addictive!

 

[legerme1955]

hello reading the orig post i eard about the nine continents motor runnig much better and got more torque than the golden motors. I am acheiving a solar powered bike and i use a golden motor but is a bit noisy. The solution for much better performance i s to get a sinusoidal wave ouput controller . More silent and more performant. Iam in research of one not too expensive. CSIRO FROM AUSTRALIA use the TRITIUM wave sculptor like the most performant driver for brushless but bewhare the price!!!!! Is very interestin to wacht the amazing desing of this unlike brusless MOTOR but beware the price 12.000 ausd $ for the kit .

 

[o00scorpion00o]

hello reading the orig post i eard about the nine continents motor runnig much better and got more torque than the golden motors. I am acheiving a solar powered bike and i use a golden motor but is a bit noisy. The solution for much better performance i s to get a sinusoidal wave ouput controller . More silent and more performant. Iam in research of one not too expensive. CSIRO FROM AUSTRALIA use the TRITIUM wave sculptor like the most performant driver for brushless but bewhare the price!!!!! Is very interestin to wacht the amazing desing of this unlike brusless MOTOR but beware the price 12.000 ausd $ for the kit .

The golden motor magic pie with external controller has a lot more torque than the 9c motors I believe from the guys who have used them, and it can take a lot of power because of it's size.

 

[amberwolf]

hello reading the orig post i eard about the nine continents motor runnig much better and got more torque than the golden motors.

*Which* 9C motor is better than *which* Golden Motor?

 

[o00scorpion00o]

hello reading the orig post i eard about the nine continents motor runnig much better and got more torque than the golden motors.

*Which* 9C motor is better than *which* Golden Motor?

As far as I know the 9C motors do NOT have better torque than the magic pie motor,

They might be faster but they certainly don't have the torque of the pie. You got to feet the pie at least 60+ volts to get 30 + mph.

The pie is a beast of a motor when fed with 50+ amps!

You got to get the external controller Pie motor!

 

[legerme1955]

Hello, they talk about 2806 and 2807 Nc is possible to get differents windings for faster speed too. I did not check the nc motors but mi 500w golden is not silent and not very smooth, But in any case i am looking for a pure sine wave controller to test the difference.