Mamba XL/Neu-Castle 2028 780kv Motor Combo 10HP!!!

[PHC]

I found this gearbox,

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/products/16_07_to_1_reduction_Gearbox_with_9_16_18_Clutch_Drum-1008-27.html

Here is a picture with a Honda 7000 RPM motor attached,

It looks like it was almost made to order for a gear reduction for this motor. What do you guys think.

Paul

 

[olaf-lampe]

There had been several postings about those kind of gearboxes. They are quite cheap and have the advantage of a centrifugal clutch to keep controllers alive. My next build will have a similar setup. Then we'll see what the real life test shows.
-Olaf

 

[PHC]

Mine will be here Saturday. I will post a picture when I get the motor attached. Have you ever considered a "slip clutch" instead of a centrifugal? It could be adjusted to slip slightly and act like a torque converter. Still not ideal, but I think it would work. I am going to test the motor and gearbox on my mountain bike just to get an idea if it's going to work well. I am looking for an Aprilia RS50 or RS125 with a blown motor (rolling Chasis) to use as a base for a final build. The Castle 2028 should have very similar HP specs to the Rotax 2 stroke 50-125cc motor that comes stock.

Paul

 

[Hillhater]

The Castle 2028 should have very similar HP specs to the Rotax 2 stroke 50-125cc motor that comes stock.
Paul

The Aprilia /Rotax 125cc 2 stroke comes with 20+ hp in stock form, and is often tuned to give over 30 hp :wink:

 

[PHC]

I read the limited class version has 15 hp. I have seen figures as high as 40 HP in the unlimited class. They also make a 50cc version. The 10 HP from the CC motor I am using should still enable it to get to 35+ MPH perhaps even 40. The 2.5HP 7000 rpm Honda motor coupled to the Staton-inc gearbox can push a bike to 40 MPH with the right final drive sprocket. The 10HP 25000+ rpm Castle motor I am using should be able to do better. I received the Staton-inc 17:1 reduction gear box today and its very impressive. The gears are thick heat treated steel in a CNC machined aluminum case. I should have no problem fitting the castle motor. I purchased some 5/8" round stock with a keyway cut in it. I will drill a 8mm hole on my lathe down the center and install it on the castle motor shaft tomorrow. Then I will put a centrifugal clutch on the motor and mount it to the reduction gear box.

Paul

The Castle 2028 should have very similar HP specs to the Rotax 2 stroke 50-125cc motor that comes stock.
Paul

The Aprilia /Rotax 125cc 2 stroke comes with 20+ hp in stock form, and is often tuned to give over 30 hp :wink:

 

[olaf-lampe]

Have you ever considered a "slip clutch" instead of a centrifugal?

Paul

A slip clutch only deals with the torque. In my imagination you'd have to pull back throttle once a slipclutch starts slipping?
A centrifugal clutch also makes it easy for a sensorless controller to start the motor.
-Olaf

 

[PHC]

I think your probably correct. I will be using a clutch from Staton-inc with their gearbox. I made an 8mm to 5/8" adapter today on my lathe for the motor to give it a standard shaft diameter. I drove all over Houston trying to find a #35 chain, but I came up empty handed. I also couldn't find the proper clutch, so I will need to order them from Staton also. I will give them a call since the support guy is very helpful and get all the remaining parts I need.

Paul

Have you ever considered a "slip clutch" instead of a centrifugal?

Paul

A slip clutch only deals with the torque. In my imagination you'd have to pull back throttle once a slipclutch starts slipping?
A centrifugal clutch also makes it easy for a sensorless controller to start the motor.
-Olaf

 

[Hillhater]

A slip clutch only deals with the torque. In my imagination you'd have to pull back throttle once a slipclutch starts slipping?

Not true......you are thinking of a torque limiting clutch.
A purpose built slip clutch is designed to slip progressively up to a specific speed, then give positive drive (lock up)
These are commonly used on high revving go kart motors that have little power or torque below 10,000rpm (typically) but have no gearbox. so to deal with slow speed corners or dead stop starting, they rely on a slipper clutch to act as a kind of torque converter.
These are normally a dry, multi disc, configuration ,operated by centrifugal force. 2"-3" in diameter.
Horstmann. SMC, Tomar, are typical suppliers.

 

[PHC]

Thanks for the information. I have seen clutches for go-karts on ebay going for over $300. I assume the technology comes with a price. Any idea of the price range?

 

[Hillhater]

Yes, good kart clutches can be spendy .. $250 up..
prices here ..
http://www.out2win.com/catalog/clutches.html

 

[olaf-lampe]

Thanks hillhater for the update.
I had a simple slip clutch in mind, like the one, a member of ES uses for his creations.
I have also bought a centrifugal disk-clutch made for 110cc 4-stroke dirtbikes. They are quite cheap, but used to replace the flywheel. Not easy to adapt and adjust...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dirt-Pit-Bike-Atv-Engine-Automatic-Clutch-LIFAN-110cc-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27b32f92a1QQitemZ170509963937QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f100

-Olaf

 

[PHC]

Looking around for an "organ donor" bike I found the cheapest one so far is a used Lefian LF200. Looks like an asian Nija copy. New they are under $2000! I want a used one with a blown engine for <$500. Really not a bad looking bike but I am sure its a pure POS most likely. Not sure about the weight without an engine but its curb weight is #350. Have a look>>

http://www.scooterdepot.us/Motorcycles-p-1-c-41.html

The bobber is super cheap and looks it.

http://www.scooterdepot.us/250cc-Custom-Bobber-Motorcycles-Street-Legal-Bikes-p-731.html

It does look super light weight though.

Paul

 

[PHC]

Here is a harley style kit bike complete without an engine for $1500.00! I am looking for a CAFE style bike frame, but they are very nice looking.

http://www.kikker5150.com/hardknock.html

Paul

 

[PHC]

Thanks hillhater for the update.
I had a simple slip clutch in mind, like the one, a member of ES uses for his creations.
I have also bought a centrifugal disk-clutch made for 110cc 4-stroke dirtbikes. They are quite cheap, but used to replace the flywheel. Not easy to adapt and adjust...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dirt-Pit-Bike-Atv-Engine-Automatic-Clutch-LIFAN-110cc-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27b32f92a1QQitemZ170509963937QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f100

-Olaf

I have also been looking at electric clutches. They are used for PTO shafts from garden tractor to power accessories. I have seen several for various engine accessories also. I just don’t know if it would be worth the effort to convert one for the Staton gear box. I should receive my 5/8” ID Staton 4200 rpm clutch tomorrow. Then I will build a bearing mount to support the clutch shaft since the motors tiny bearings might not stand the abuse of a clutch directly attached to the motor shaft.

Paul

 

[PHC]

Here is a video clip of the Castle 2028 motor adapted to the Staton-inc 18:1 gear box. I made the 1/4" 6061-T6 adapter plate in my garage machine shop and also the steel 8mm to 5/8" shaft adapter. The shaft adapter has 2 snap ring grooves and a 5/32" round key to drive the 2000 rpm clutch. I verified the clutch engagement rpm at just over 2000 rpm with a non-contact tachometer. I am wearing safety goggles, but it is very loud and scary when running at even half power I wont run it at full power until I make a steel shroud to cover the gap between the adapter plate and the Staton gearbox.

[youtube]JsiG1qMTDfs[/youtube]


Regards,
Paul Cotto

 

[nieles]

i like that set up you have there!
i hope it works just as well as an outrunner set-up.

one thing i know from my rc years..
these low pole count inrunner motors do not like to be run at no-load for a long time.
they get hot very fast.

 

[PHC]

Thanks for your comments. I will keep an eye on the motor case temp during static tests. So far its been only slightly warm during the 2-3 minute tests I've run. I just ran it again and I got around 900 rpm on the output shaft sprocket, so the input was around 16000 rpm. I really need to test it under load, but I am still looking for a suitable vehicle. I really feel this is going to be a good combination to drive a lightweight vehicle.

Regards,
Paul

i like that set up you have there!
i hope it works just as well as an outrunner set-up.

one thing i know from my rc years..
these low pole count inrunner motors do not like to be run at no-load for a long time.
they get hot very fast.

 

[PHC]

Here are the recommended gear ratios when running a 2.5 hp 7000 rpm 50cc motor. It looks like a 7000 rpm motor top speed would be 35 mph based on the gears below. My motor should be able to at least turn 18000 under load putting the top speed well above 60 mph. Obviously this does not account for headwind or friction loss but I would think 50mph is not out of the question. What do you think?

Top Speed Wanted :
14.40 to 17.40 mph 8 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
16.20 to 19.20 mph 9 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
18.04 to 21.04 mph 10 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
19.80 to 22.80 mph 11 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
21.60 to 24.60 mph 12 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
23.40 to 26.40 mph 13 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
25.20 to 28.20 mph 14 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
27.08 to 30.08 mph 15 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
28.80 to 31.80 mph 16 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
30.60 to 33.60 mph 17 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub
32.50 to 35.50 mph 18 Tooth with 26” Wheel - 16 tooth on Hub

 

[Farfle]

I am wearing safety goggles, but it is very loud and scary when running at even half power I wont run it at full power until I make a steel shroud to cover the gap between the adapter plate and the Staton gearbox.

Its a good day when you need a tranny blanket for your ebike

 

[PHC]

I call my work space "Evil Labs Inc" 8)

Paul

I am wearing safety goggles, but it is very loud and scary when running at even half power I wont run it at full power until I make a steel shroud to cover the gap between the adapter plate and the Staton gearbox.

Its a good day when you need a tranny blanket for your ebike

 

[deepfraught]

Paul, did this project go any further?

I've just picked up the complete bike with motor kit that they did for it. I hadn't seen your thread first but imagined mid-drive potential for electric with the gearbox, and was one of the reasons I wanted to toy with a good petrol kit to see the mechanicals done well.

Original owner's pic with teen son who rode it, it's not in this good original condition anymore, but a little TLC should set it right, I did consider getting a brush cutter with the same engine to swap new to the bike with a legal 200W / 25kph restriction/choke and put the old to the brush cutter =P