Mando Footloose (e-bike without a chain)

LockH

LockH

1 PW
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
17,544
Location
Ummm.. Started out in Victoria BC Canada, then sta
Id say old chump,its a disaster waiting to happen.
 
Funny timing on seeing this pop up.... I just rode one of those yesterday. As a design exercise its pretty... as a bike, its pretty weird.
 
I rode these, there absolutely horrible

You peddle and it goes, so far so good. Then you notice that if you peddle harder it sort off feels like its slips, that apparently was the dynamo engaging. So when you have the slipping feeling it is generating energy. However the cadence and power needed to generate is done very badly, so you can basically only generate energy on the downward kick of both legs. I have no idea why they did it like that but it really felt weird.

Keep in mind that i am a daily commuter on a non electric bicycle so should be fit enough to generate at least 80-150watts of power all the time.

Also the thing was very slow to accelerate and it felt very useless to peddle when no energy was being generated. Basically a badly controllable throttle...
 
If it actually telescoped into compact form or folded somehow... it actually rode ok as a low power scooter..but as Malloot said...the pedaling was horrible. The first pedal stroke activates the PAS, then right as you want to lean into the pedals to help it accelerate, it gets all stupid. I think it's actually a clutch that lets loose..if you keep pedaling slowly there's resistance, but if you exceed a certain push on the pedals, it slips right to the bottom of the stoke, then catches, then slips again as you get to the power part of the next stroke, ad infinitum....
 
For the keen of eye..in the background that's an Easy Motion Eco, a Kona cargo bike with the new Biox plastic motor, a Stromer ST2, a Haibike Xduro, and an Izip E3 Peak in the rack behind it...
 
i'm very interested in the Mando and want to mimic the footloose' serial hybrid system. anyone know of a good small cheap motor that could be added to the cranks to generate electricity for an on bike battery pack?
 
The only way I can see a system like this being of any significant use would be in a high speed capable human/electric powered volemobile where you have a real problem with trying to obtain a wide enough physical gear range to make it possible for the operator to provide useful input by pedaling from zero-to-60+ mph speeds.

And even then I would want at least one low gear that was an actual physical gearing for starting up from a stop.





I've actually considered trying to build something like this in that specific situation. My state law says motorized (including electric) bicycles are limited to "a maximum of 2 brake horsepower" (that is equivalent to 1.49-Kw OUTPUT power in electric motor terms) and "may not be capable of propelling the device, unassisted, at a speed exceeding 30 miles an hour, 48.28 kilometers an hour, on a level surface."

LONG STORY SHORT, take a volemobile with its drastically improved aerodynamics compared to a conventional bicycle put a good sized electric hub motor wound for speed and program the controller to keep the power output just a hair under the legal limit and wire it up so that motor only works when your pedaling and legally you can go as fast as it will go (depending on how good the aerodynamics are on the shell used on flat ground we are talking 60+ mph speed capability) because the motor only works when "assisted" by pedal power and therefore you get around the 30-mph speed limit which only applies to speed under motor power alone without the rider pedaling and doing their part.

Trying to build a chain drive gearing for the human pedal power wide enough to cover that kind of speed range gets pretty complicated. Generator on the pedals solves the issue quite easily. Problem was that I figured to get the right kind of "feel" on the pedals you would have to use a non-permanent-magnet controlled field generator with some fancy electronics such that the field strength would vary to increase and decrease the pedaling resistance in order to keep the pedal cadence within the "human sweet spot". Start pedaling too fast and the generator resistance increases pushing you back into the proper range, pedal too slow and the generator resistance decreases allowing you to push back into the proper range. Pedal as hard as you want or as leisurely as you like; in the lower, middle, or upper part of the acceptable cadence range and it feels like the real thing. Add to that a single low end physical gear (that just over-spins on the freewheel when moving at higher speeds) and you need the ability to program in a zero power generation mode when actually using that low gear.

It's all possible with the right electronics set-up but unfortunately my DIY capabilities don't go as far as building my own custom generator control circuits.





So I do see an application where this kind of set-up could work very well, but a conventional upright bicycle especially a dinky folder that are often more difficult to ride in the first place is NOT THE CORRECT APPLICATION for this kind of set-up. At least in my mind.
 
turbo1889 said:
It's all possible with the right electronics set-up but unfortunately my DIY capabilities don't go as far as building my own custom generator control circuits.

So I do see an application where this kind of set-up could work very well, but a conventional upright bicycle especially a dinky folder that are often more difficult to ride in the first place is NOT THE CORRECT APPLICATION for this kind of set-up. At least in my mind.
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm oversimplifying this but how about a small DD hub motor with a variable regen controller hooked to it? Tune the gear and the amount of regen to get your cadence/torque where you want it, once you reach a general setting five physical gears should be more than enough to get a wide range of pedaling effort vs cadence and the regen controller handles putting the resulting watts back into the battery.

Conhis sells a small DD hubbie..
 
Unless your design has some really really strong need to get rid of a chain, part of the great thing of good old chain is being separate from your electrical, so you can still pedal even if the motor somehow dies. With the range of gearing options these days you can pedal up to some high speeds, and still have the low end to help the motor during the high amp times of pullouts. It just seems with the efficiency of mechanical pedals, by the time you get losses pedaling a generator, and the weight, and the lack of ability to load share with the motor (even if you're pedaling up a storm on pullouts or hills, its still the motor doing all the work as you feed the battery) it doesn't seem like it would help anything. Except keeping one pants leg clean maybe.

edit... and just saw a Forbes article on this thing... apparently its brilliant and futuristic. Unless you've actually ridden one, which they obviously haven't...
 
Oh oh. Bright Guy. (Look out EVerybuddy!)
 
The Mando Footloose promo team in high gear. Bike as "High-tech":
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3447781/Is-rechargeable-e-bike-LL-getting-work-future.html

Best features they list?
NO CHAIN: The Mando is being billed as the first chainless bike
HILLS MADE EASY: It can automatically detect gradients and adjust for them
HUMAN MACHINE INTERFACE: A removable display tracks the calories used plus miles, speed, range and battery life
THUMB ACCELERATOR: Riders can use the lever on the handlebar to move - at speeds of 4mph - without pedalling
CHARGING UP: A full battery charge lasts for between 20 and 40 miles
Click to expand...

[C]omments on that UK Daily Mail site amusing. :)
 
https://fccid.io/

An FCC ID is a unique identifier assigned to a device registered with the United States Federal Communications Commission. For legal sale of wireless devices in the US, manufacturers must:

Have the device evaluated by an independent lab to ensure it conforms to FCC standards
Provide documentation to the FCC of the lab results
Provide User Manuals, Documentation, and Photos relating to the device
Digitally or physically label the device with the unique identifier provided by the FCC (upon approved application)

FCC IDs are required for all wireless emitting devices sold in the USA. By searching an FCC ID, you can find details on the wireless operating frequency (including strength), photos of the device, user manuals for the device, and SAR reports on the wireless emissions.
Click to expand...

https://fccid.io/MSIP-RMM-MF3-MDFOOTLOOSE-IM

MSIP-RMM-MF3-MDFOOTLOOSE-IM
Device: Electric bicycle - Mando Footloose IM
Manufactured by Mando Corporation

An MSIP ID is the authorization ID assigned by the Ministry of Science, ICT & Future Planning to identify wireless products in the Korean market. The MSIP assigns application ID numbers and Authorization number to approved products. The Electric bicycle, manufactured by Mando Corporation and sold by Mando Corporation has an Authorization Number of MSIP-RMM-MF3-MDFOOTLOOSE-IM and was approved on 2017-03-13 under application number 201717100000055291.
Authorization Prefix: MSIP
Certification Type: RMM
Company Code: MF3
Model Identifier: MDFOOTLOOSE
Click to expand...

MSIP-RMM-MF3-MDFOOTLOOSE-IM
Application Number: 201717100000055291
Company: Mando Corporation
Device Name: Electric bicycle
Model: Mando Footloose IM
Sub-Model:
Authorization Number: MSIP-RMM-MF3-MDFOOTLOOSE-IM
Alphanumeric Authorization Number: MSIPRMMMF3MDFOOTLOOSEIM
Manufacturer: Mando Corporation
Country: Korea
Date of Application: 2017-03-13
Notes:
Depreciated Authorization*: KCC-RMM-MF3-MDFOOTLOOSE
*May not be valid for this product
Click to expand...

(Guess I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know watt this EVen means?)
 
There must be some very persuasive person behind this bike.

To start with a bad idea and make it to production
To persist and produce a 2nd and a 3rd...

Amazing IMO. And they sold some, since we have feedback from someone who tried it. Makes me believe nothing can stop a hard head, even when it is against the most obvious logic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

I
E-Bike Safety Survey Results
Replies
20
Views
1,851
marvin78
M
S
Building my first e-bike, questions
2 3 4 5
Replies
120
Views
6,437
Zambam
Z
R
Evercross Ev65m
Replies
3
Views
1,666
Radek
R
A
E-Bike Battery Sparks 5 Alarm Fire At Bronx Supermarket
Replies
2
Views
670
fechter
fechter
C
Lightweight carbon framed hub-motor build - Goal of 20 lbs or less
2
Replies
25
Views
4,521
bananu7
bananu7
Back
Top