Mass shooting, Orlando Fla, June 2016

spinningmagnets

spinningmagnets

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Rather than wait for multiple threads to be started, I am starting one here in the toxic section. All threads about this will be moved here. As of Sunday morning, June 12th...at least 50 people verified dead, over 50 more wounded. Majority of the victims were inside a gay club. The shooter is dead after an assault by the police SWAT team.

The shooting was at a club called "Pulse", and it began at 2:02 AM Sunday morning.

One SWAT officer was wounded when his kevlar helmet was shot, but he is currently in stable condition. At a minimum, the shooter used a rifle similar to the popular "AR-15", and also some type of "as yet unidentified" pistol.

The FBI also announced that there is no evidence to suggest that there was more than one shooter. The shooter was killed at approximately 5:00 AM after what has been described as a "hostage situation", and has been identified as 29-year-old Omar Mir Seddique Mateen.

He was born in New York, and was married in 2009. He has one child, a son. Both of his parents emigrated from Afghanistan.

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he lived in fort pierce, a few miles from me.

not a huge city, mostly farms and orange groves with a small town on the river and ocean side.

the inner part of the city is quite diverse with mostly black and hispanic families.

lots of drugs, crime and even murder on a regular basis, with a deputy sheriff even being murdered on a traffic stop just a few years ago.

this scumbag drive 2 hours to go this club because he saw two guys kissing in Miami and it upset him. So far this is speculation but it is info straight from the shooters father.

apparently he had a security license, but that is not clear at this time.


RIP to the victims and prayers to their family
 
Whats Florida's stance on guns?
Is it strict or loose?
Like Texas or NY?

Judging by wikipedia it seems pretty loose.
Duty to inform? No No None Florida law does not require one to disclose one's possession of a firearm on contact with Law Enforcement.

Firearm registration? No No Chapter 790.335 It is a felony under Florida law to create, maintain or publish any list, record or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners.
 
Consult the NRA for reassurance that personal gun ownership is the only safeguard against having to see guys kissing each other.
 
I felt so bummed all day today. And I'm on the opposite side of the planet :(

Port Arthur was just over 20 years ago here in Australia - and it rocked the nation. We asked ourselves, "Is there a genuine need for 30 shot semi autos" and the answer was obviously no. So we agreed to surrender over half a million guns. While the frequency of gun homicides has generally dropped since before the mid 1990s, the frequency of 4+ shooting deaths has been zero ever since. Most importantly, the attitude towards guns changed - it went from a general dislike to a flat out rejection. Even our roughest suburbs don't have guns. You might get bashed up, but you won't get shot.

I so dearly hope the USA can start to manage it's guns. Be strong and know that love always wins.
 
Chalo said:
Consult the NRA for reassurance that personal gun ownership is the only safeguard against having to see guys kissing each other.
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The NRA and their position on LGBTs didn't just slaughter and maim 100+ people. But you care more about making a political point, as usual, so you blame them rather than the insane terrorist that did it.
 
CNN reporting:

All the guns were legal.
Cockroach was on the radar of authorities.
He was denied body armor from a shop somewhere.
5 are in critical, 49 dead so it will top 50 dead.

-------------------------------------

Florida law states: You couldnt have conceal gun in a place that sold alcohol.

I just wonder if the club had metal detectors and how many door men and security people they had.
Maybe if someone had a gun they could have killed the terrorist.

Many lawsuits will be filed now.
 
Here's an article that might be worth consideration about an incident in New York. This article states there were no fire exits, but another story said there was a fire exit, but it was chained to prevent any customers from slipping in the back without paying, and without needing to pay a second "bouncer" to cover the back door.

A guy was mad at his ex-girlfriend (who was inside), so he threw some unregistered gasoline at the only doorway, and set it on fire. I don't know if he had passed a background check to allow him to legally purchase a couple gallons of gasoline, or if he got the gasoline illegally from the black market (or stole it from a legal gasoline owner, who hadn't kept his gasoline properly locked up). The article wasn't clear as to whether this particular gasoline was "normal" gasoline, or if it was the type of "assault" gasoline that we need to keep out of the hands of the men who are most likely to commit these mass gasoline-ings.

Although it wasn't posted, this wooden-framed structure was a well-known "gasoline free" zone, and ANY type of gasoline was strictly prohibited.

87 people died. March 25, 1990, "Happy Land" club, New York.

http://nypost.com/2015/03/25/nyc-dance-club-arson-that-killed-87-to-be-commemorated/
 
spinningmagnets said:
Here's an article that might be worth consideration about an incident in New York. This article states there were no fire exits, but another story said there was a fire exit, but it was chained to prevent any customers from slipping in the back without paying, and without needing to pay a second "bouncer" to cover the back door.

A guy was mad at his ex-girlfriend (who was inside), so he threw some unregistered gasoline at the only doorway, and set it on fire. I don't know if he had passed a background check to allow him to legally purchase a couple gallons of gasoline, or if he got the gasoline illegally from the black market (or stole it from a legal gasoline owner, who hadn't kept his gasoline properly locked up). The article wasn't clear as to whether this particular gasoline was "normal" gasoline, or if it was the type of "assault" gasoline that we need to keep out of the hands of the men who are most likely to commit these mass gasoline-ings.

Although it wasn't posted, this wooden-framed structure was a well-known "gasoline free" zone, and ANY type of gasoline was strictly prohibited.

87 people died. March 25, 1990, "Happy Land" club, New York.

http://nypost.com/2015/03/25/nyc-dance-club-arson-that-killed-87-to-be-commemorated/
Click to expand...

I totally get and agree with this. Perfect perspective.
 
cruzin said:
spinningmagnets said:
http://nypost.com/2015/03/25/nyc-dance-club-arson-that-killed-87-to-be-commemorated/
Click to expand...

I totally get and agree with this. Perfect perspective.
Click to expand...

There was another incident I believe in NYC not long after 9/11. In this case the weapon was pepperspray. It was never really reconstructed for the public, but people said they saw a few people going down, there was something stinging in the air, and someone started shouting "Al Qaeda." They had pictures from outside as one guy was getting crushed to death against a door that wouldn't open, his face visible in the window. I don't remember how many deaths.

So (Left of Bill)ary has started her call for the type of laws that France had when 130 people were killed in one incident last year. Let's not forget the type of laws that Norway had several years ago. . . .
 
Dauntless said:
cruzin said:
spinningmagnets said:
http://nypost.com/2015/03/25/nyc-dance-club-arson-that-killed-87-to-be-commemorated/
Click to expand...

I totally get and agree with this. Perfect perspective.
Click to expand...

There was another incident I believe in NYC not long after 9/11. In this case the weapon was pepperspray. It was never really reconstructed for the public, but people said they saw a few people going down, there was something stinging in the air, and someone started shouting "Al Qaeda." They had pictures from outside as one guy was getting crushed to death against a door that wouldn't open, his face visible in the window. I don't remember how many deaths.
Click to expand...
21 Die in Stampede of 1,500 at Chicago Nightclub (2/17/2003 New York Times)

2003 E2 nightclub stampede (wikipedia)

List of nightclub fires (wikipedia)
 
Yep, knives and baseball bats can be pretty mean weapons. But you can do 30 times more damage from a safe distance with a semi auto and 30-round magazines.

And that's the point Australians are always trying to make. We can still buy guns - they are still for sale and they are not illegal if you follow the correct procedures. However semi-autos like AK47s, SKS and AR-15s are effectively banned. Special permits are available for professional shooters to obtain semi-automatic high calibre rifles, but the magazine is still limited to 10 shots I think. A popular use is shooting freal horses from helicopters (yes, this is a thing!).

Mass shootings have all but disappeared. Homicides per 100,000 people, while steadily dropping, still happen and the weapon of choice varies. Guns are still used in these instances, but no 4+ mass murders since 1996.

The decision to ban such rifles and regulate firearms was a huge success, and we sincerely hope the USA can make inroads to do the same.
 
100 arson homicides per year.
1,000 knife homicides per year.
10,000 gun homicides per year.

Doesn't take a genius to see where the problem lies.
 
Yeah . . . . 11,100 murders

And hopefully people will figure out the guns aren't the root problem, and treating that symptom will only shift or hide the symptoms, for better or worse . . . imho.

Btw, we should look at switzerland and others, then consider the differences in origins of our OWN country and the culture and happenings . . .

And it does annoy- many canadians, australians, british, etc that think they know better about all kinds of stuff.

A little more focus on our OWN countries might not hurt. . . And at least be from the topic country if you want to regurgitate a typical polarized political side or expect to argue one with an actual resident/citizen.
 
We have a pretty violent culture here in the USA. If you take our guns away from us, we will use knives, gasoline...whatever we can get our hands on. Poor people in India and Pakistan use battery acid.

If you take the top most violent cities in the US, and remove their population numbers and their gun homicide numbers from the equation, suddenly the USA has gun homicide percentages that are equal to any of the "good" nations on Earth.

Baltimore, Chicago, Philadelphia, Washington DC, etc. If only somebody could find out what these cities have in common, so we could solve this very important problem. What...could...it...be?
 
Here's a pic of a father and daughter using public transportation to go shooting...in Switzerland. The gun homicide rate is one of the lowest in the world.

OwfMZIw.jpg


Switzerland trails behind only the U.S, Yemen and Serbia in the number of guns per capita; between 2.3 million and 4.5 million military and private firearms are estimated to be in circulation in a country of only 8 million people. Yet, despite the prevalence of guns, the violent-crime rate is low: government figures show about 0.5 gun homicides per 100,000 inhabitants in 2010. By comparison, the U.S rate in the same year was about 5 firearm killings per 100,000 people, according to a 2011 U.N. report
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Gregory said:
100 arson homicides per year.
1,000 knife homicides per year.
10,000 gun homicides per year.

Doesn't take a genius to see where the problem lies.
Click to expand...

Mmm...how many vehicular homicides? ;)
 
Gregory said:
100 arson homicides per year.
1,000 knife homicides per year.
10,000 gun homicides per year.

Doesn't take a genius to see where the problem lies.
Click to expand...

The problem lay in a place that has that many murders in a year, which the U.S. doesn't.

Are you saying that's in Australia? In the U.S., guns pale in comparison to Baseball bats, hammers, etc. How may people are killed in Australia each year with 'Hands/fists?' 'Feet?' In the U.S. that outnumbers assault weapon murders 2-1. Dang, if you had a gun, all the people with bats, hammers, knives, their bare hands, etc. would just leave you alone.
 
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