Max power output for 9C 6X10?

[esoria]

Hallo boys, i have a question, i try my 9C 6X10 at 80V 80A with my Lyen 12 fet controller (very good controller), but the motor get hot in few start\stop,the temperature is 60C, and the power is not comparable to my 5304, the 5304 is mooooore powerful than 9C, much torque, much speed, much cooler temp...
I have already upgrade my 9C with 12awg teflon wire, what is the max safe temp for this motor? And what is the max amp rated\phase for this motor?

Thanks

Ettore

 

[dogman dan]

Well, a lot would depend on the kind of riding. Pulling really really steep rocky dirt hills, I let the smoke out of my 6x10 in about 5 ah of riding at 72v 40 amps. (80v actual) I was doing a lot of pulling 2600 amps, and grinding up those hills as slow as 5 mph. It took about 30-40 min. The motor seemed pretty cool the first half of the ride, on hills I could climb at 15 mph.

All you can really do is monitor the temp of the motor, I wasn't duhh except for occasionally feeling the cover. Stop when the inside is over 200F. Some will say 250F. Mine got hot enough to melt solder on the phase wires, so it surely was way over 250F.

So the only real answer is, max power is whatever you want it to be, till the motor gets hot. It varies too much to just say xxxx watts.

On a 9x7 motor, I pulled a lot of 3000 watt bursts in the death race without overheating in a 20 min race. I had the holes in the cover for that though. Without holes, it was standing 2000 watts pretty good, and lasting till a 72v 10 ah battery was used up.

On my 6x10 motor last summer, I was pulling 1000 watts with no problems for at least an hour of hard dirt riding in hot weather. I'm thinking of trying something between 1500-2000 watts on the next 6x10. And a thermometer.

 

[esoria]

Thanks Dogman i understand, i suppose max temp of external cover is ok at 140F? I can measure external more quickly

 

[esoria]

I thought the 9C could withstand higher power, my 5304 has a huge torque at 80v 80a and does not heat

 

[The Mighty Volt]

I thought the 9C could withstand higher power, my 5304 has a huge torque at 80v 80a and does not heat

Are you drilled for air cooling?

Cheers.

 

[esoria]

No drilling, i want use the bike in off-road condition, and with the hole in the cover, is not good

 

[Drunkskunk]

I thought the 9C could withstand higher power, my 5304 has a huge torque at 80v 80a and does not heat

Higher power? Yes. Higher than a Clyte 530X? No.

 

[liveforphysics]

If identical power makes it that much worse performance, and then it gets hot, I bet you have one of the incorrect hall patterns that still runs the motor forward, but with crap performance and melting hot heat.

 

[torker]

If identical power makes it that much worse performance, and then it gets hot, I bet you have one of the incorrect hall patterns that still runs the motor forward, but with crap performance and melting hot heat.

It sounds like he is running twice the amps of Dogman. Just from all the reading I've done it seems 72=80 v and 40 amps is pretty much max. depending on what kind of riding of course.
I must have missed the incorrect hall patterns you mention though.

 

[esoria]

I believe that the configuration of the hall\phase is correct, because the current at no load is 1.08
amp ...
I believe is my sensation (no power) because my other bike with 5304 with the same voltage\current setup, is moooooooore powerful of 9C 6X10...

 

[dogman dan]

I agree, the 53mm wide magnets and more copper would make the x5 feel much more powerfull. Even at 48v 20 amps, you can feel more power in the x5 for sure. And more weight.

In my case, I was really lugging my 2810 motor, trying to ride gas pipeline roads that take a straight line and go straight up hills at extreme grades. When running 1000 watts, I always had to get off and walk the bike up those hills. Too funny really, I melted down a heinzmann doing exactly the same thing on the same road. I never learn when I have a new bike running, to wait for the thermometer to do real testing. I just have a really stupid right hand that takes controll much like the third leg sometimes does.

I have never damaged a motor that was measuring 170F or less on the covers. I put external sensors on the axle though, since it heats up a bit faster than the covers. It also cools slower, and of course, a wire can be attached unlike the covers. Feeling with the hand, I thought I was ok, then I rode 10 min more. OOPS.

 

[icecube57]

I ran my GM at around 180-200F constant when aircooled. Methods managed to get a 9C to 392F+ and his still works. I dont advise it but it takes alot to get one roasty toasty and inoperable. If it gets to hot you may demagnitize the magnets or cause hall sensors to fall off the stator or melt wire insulation. But you have to be an idiot or crazy to let it get that hot. The teflon wires on a stock motor are good to 500-600F but the sheathing around the phase wires is barely good to 200F go figure.

 

[John in CR]

The X5 is almost twice the motor, so of course it handles more power without issue. The X5 has more copper and more magnet with a similar diameter. The problem with the 6x10 is the missing strands of copper. Each of those 51 stator teeth has 3 strands less copper around it than a 9x7 and 4 less than an 8x8. That's why Luke says the 8x8 is the real hotrodder version. Then you just use wheel size to tune it to the weight yours pushes and the hills you need to climb. You tune your top speed via voltage.

 

[esoria]

Unfortunately I chose the 8X8 version but the seller made a mistake and sent me the 6X10
Ok thanks very much boys
We'll see how it will behave in off-road!

 

[John in CR]

I'd make the seller replace it. I always get confused about the 9C numbering. If the 6x10 is the speed wind, then you're going to have to go down to a 20" wheel for any hope of decent performance off road. Also 80A may be too high for a sealed 9C unless you have no hills to deal with and no soft dirt or sand, so definitely watch the heat. 80A is too high for a 12 FET controller, especially with a speed wind controller. Some of Lyen's controllers provide only half of the programmed current and some send double, so you really want to measure current and know for sure of the actual results of program settings. A properly calibrated CA is a big help in that regard.

John

 

[esoria]

john 6X10 is slow wind motor (high torque), at 80V 80A in a 26" wheel i make 55 kmh, i have a Lyen 12 fet, and no big hills, in fact after a full run (25km) the motor is hot, but the controller is COLD

 

[John in CR]

john 6X10 is slow wind motor (high torque), at 80V 80A in a 26" wheel i make 55 kmh, i have a Lyen 12 fet, and no big hills, in fact after a full run (25km) the motor is hot, but the controller is COLD

I'd say that the motor winding resistance is saving the controller from self destruction, and 80A battery side, which is probably 200A phase currents is way way too high for that 6 strands of copper. My 9C with 9 strands is about the equivalent of about 14ga and I don't think I can get away with an 80A controller current limit even with a conservative phase current multiple. The hot motor is talking too you. The plus side is that you are probably bumping up against stator saturation and the extra current isn't netting much additional performance and you get heat instead.

For better performance and cooler running, lower the current, increase voltage, and go to a 24" wheel.

 

[esoria]

Thanks for the info john