cwah
100 MW
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Mechanical Crimping Large Gauge Wiring Harnesses
- Thread starter icecube57
- Start date
cwah
100 MW
What's the best tool to use for HXT connectors? :lol:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9283
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9283
Alan B
100 GW
Those 4mm bullets are designed for soldering. 
Kingfish
100 MW
I am considering crimping over soldering on the interconnections for my battery harness which will be a mix of 6 and 8 stranded. I’ve narrowed to a couple of choices. Sadly the WestMountainRadio crimper only handles up to 8 AWG; pathetic considered how much it cost. Alternative candidates are:
I don’t plan to do a lot of crimping in my life, but I need something better than trying to solder big wire gauge together.
Thanks in advance, KF
- Pro-Crimper by Prs-Kit + Lunar series Die Set for 10-6 AWG (about $46.26 before shipping)
- E-Z Red B790C Hammer Indent Crimper Tool for 8 to 4 AWG ($22.50 + shipping)
I don’t plan to do a lot of crimping in my life, but I need something better than trying to solder big wire gauge together.
Thanks in advance, KF
Alan B
100 GW
I'm enjoying a hydraulic crimper, they are available from Harbor Freight or eBay.
Kingfish
100 MW
What is the model? And are you doing lugs or unions or...? 8)Alan B said:
~KF
cal3thousand
10 MW
Kingfish said:
I have a similar swaging tool to the second one for crimping 2/0 copper lugs to welding cable for making 'Big 3' cables on my cars. They work well enough if you don't need a beautiful crimp; heatshrink covers all that up anyways. A sledge hammer and a vise are of much help.
EDIT:
BTW... that swage tool is for up to 4/0 AWG... much bigger than 4 AWG
Kingfish
100 MW
cal3thousand said:
gulp!OK - got it; I'll think smaller. KF
icecube57
10 MW
I second my love of the crimp.. Making very good solid crimps.... wont come apart even if you deliberately try to pull it out.... ive tried...
icecube57
10 MW
[youtube]ejuuRIZsg_I[/youtube]
Kingfish
100 MW
Wow IceCube, that is awesome - I never thought to look on eBay :wink:
And you have me thinking of different options for multiple wire joins instead of using ring lugs.
Questions:
Very encouraged - thank you, KF 8)
And you have me thinking of different options for multiple wire joins instead of using ring lugs.
Questions:
- What is the type union that you used for that join in the video?
- I presume that the crimping tool takes multiple "pumps" to complete the swage/crimp, yes?
- Any particular vendor on eBay that you used?
Very encouraged - thank you, KF 8)
icecube57
10 MW
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320959073590?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1195wt_906
Yes you do pump the crimper to close the ram. There is an on off valuve to retract it.
The splice method i use is the overlapping method. For visualization.Take one index finger and lay it on top of the other parallel in parallel. In the video. The 8G conduit is in the center surrounded by the 4 12g condiut. The wires are stripped the length of the sleeve. I slide the copper sleeve over all the wires and crimp.
Yes you do pump the crimper to close the ram. There is an on off valuve to retract it.
The splice method i use is the overlapping method. For visualization.Take one index finger and lay it on top of the other parallel in parallel. In the video. The 8G conduit is in the center surrounded by the 4 12g condiut. The wires are stripped the length of the sleeve. I slide the copper sleeve over all the wires and crimp.
Attachments
cal3thousand
10 MW
Test your crimps like this guy did:
icecube57
10 MW
I not being smart or anything... if someone is doing to shit like that with my harness its their own damn fault if it fails. They are purposely seeking failure... it falls way out the realm of realistic usage requirements.If this was for fencing using steel cable that requires it to hold that wire under extreme load it would definely need to be tested in such a manner. But for our use a good tug test on each wire should be more than enough considering i know my pulling force exceeds 500+lbs .
Kingfish
100 MW
IceCube: Lakewood guy, gotcha - he was high on my probable hit list I shall do it!
Ice, where did you get those copper sleeves? How do I spec that? Are they like these: Copper Crimp Sleeves?
Crimp Test: That's over the top, but fun hehe :lol:
Diggin' it! KF
I shall do it!Ice, where did you get those copper sleeves? How do I spec that? Are they like these: Copper Crimp Sleeves?
Crimp Test: That's over the top, but fun hehe :lol:
Diggin' it! KF
cal3thousand
10 MW
icecube57 said:
I was just joking
He did it to prove a point and I use that same image to prove the same point. Crimps done properly will always outperform solder. PERIOD
(This isn't directed at you, because you actually know what you're doing)
cal3thousand
10 MW
Kingfish said:IceCube: Lakewood guy, gotcha - he was high on my probable hit list
Ice, where did you get those copper sleeves? How do I spec that? Are they like these: Copper Crimp Sleeves?
Crimp Test: That's over the top, but fun hehe :lol:
Diggin' it! KF
Someone here previously pointed out that Home Depot carries them, I can confirm as I picked up a box for about $6 for 50 count last night. They are the 8-14 AWG copper barrels. There's only 2 sizes in the aisle, it's located near the zipties
Kingfish
100 MW
cal3thousand said:Kingfish said:IceCube: Lakewood guy, gotcha - he was high on my probable hit list
Ice, where did you get those copper sleeves? How do I spec that? Are they like these: Copper Crimp Sleeves?
Crimp Test: That's over the top, but fun hehe :lol:
Diggin' it! KF
Someone here previously pointed out that Home Depot carries them, I can confirm as I picked up a box for about $6 for 50 count last night. They are the 8-14 AWG copper barrels. There's only 2 sizes in the aisle, it's located near the zipties
Excellent! KF
ADDENDUM: The particular unit that IceCube bought was sold out by the time I got there. Dang lurkers :wink:
Instead I picked this one up which was the next best deal: Hydraulic Crimper w/ 8 Dies
ADDENDUM #2: 8/26/2012 - Tool arrived yesterday. It's a monster! Just need to find the swage sleeves now.
Kingfish
100 MW
Greetings –
Today I went on the hunt for a material to swage my new 8- and 6-AWG main battery harness. I thought this would be like… a no-brainer, but no… it was yet another challenge. The stuff I found online had mainly to do with swaging wire rope in a 1:1 side-by-side configuration.
So then I thought “Ha! I’m smarter, I’m an Engineer, I’ll just measure it!” and discovered that a 3/8-inch sized copper tubing Type-M would work just dandy. But before I go on the hunt at the store I remembered that I have some ½-inch copper tubing here in my stash of brewing equipment. Found the supplies and it was Type-M, the thin-walled stuff <good!>. Check for a fit in the handy hydraulic tool, but nope – it won’t fit, even using the 0-AWG jaws. Dang! I should have bought the tool that went to 000-AWG.
Oh well, off to Home Despot I go. But as it turns out, HD doesn’t sell 3/8-inch Type M; Type K, yes, but not Type-M.
Hmmm, I won’t be outdone! Off I go to the Hobby Store cos I know they have a wide assortment of Brass and SST tubing. And it turns out they do; massive selection in very small incremental sizes having very thin walls. I decide to take a chance and purchase the ½-inch diameter brass tubing and give it a try. Back home in my hidden hovel in the hill and using the tube-cutter, I diced off about a ½-inch slice. Then stripped 3 short pieces of 6-AWG Marine-Grade wire for a test crimp. The brass tubing had plenty of room in the jaws; I might have been able to go one size up at the hobby store. No matter; a 1:2 join is a perfectly fine test.
My first Crimp: Before
After. This was accomplished in two crimps and mashed all the way down solid. Note the large flangy parts. One of the wires crept out a bit. I think next time I’ll make the slice of tubing a tiny bit longer.
With Heat Shrink. Given the pointy edges of the flanges, I would opt to put one more wrap just to be safe. :wink:
Resistance is Futile
After my wires were assimilated into the Collective, I measured the resistance to see how the join faired. The shorter link came up with about 0.1 Ohms, and the longer link – the one that wiggled out a tiny bit – came up about 0.1 to 0.2. Between the two on the right, they came up 0.0. I have a 30-inch length of 6-AWG and it measured about 1.1 Ohms. Double checking, and now they all register 0. Hmm, well – anyways, it seems like a good strong join and I can't pull it apart. Brass is alright I think for a swaging material; I mean Copper is certainly better <nods>, but brass will do. Besides, the part that’s crushed together is copper and that’s what really matters.
Well, that’s me. I’m off to go start putting together my new harness. Thanks for the insights and the video; really appreciated. Hats off to IceCube 8)
Last word: The Hydraulic Wire Crimp Tool is exactly the same one offered by Harbor Freight. If I had to do it again, I’d get the tool that could swage larger wire: 0-AWG jaws just barely allows me to join three 6-AWG wires. For my next ride, I'll have to buy a larger tool or use a different method of connecting large wires.
Cheers, KF
Today I went on the hunt for a material to swage my new 8- and 6-AWG main battery harness. I thought this would be like… a no-brainer, but no… it was yet another challenge. The stuff I found online had mainly to do with swaging wire rope in a 1:1 side-by-side configuration.
So then I thought “Ha! I’m smarter, I’m an Engineer, I’ll just measure it!” and discovered that a 3/8-inch sized copper tubing Type-M would work just dandy.
But before I go on the hunt at the store I remembered that I have some ½-inch copper tubing here in my stash of brewing equipment. Found the supplies and it was Type-M, the thin-walled stuff <good!>. Check for a fit in the handy hydraulic tool, but nope – it won’t fit, even using the 0-AWG jaws. Dang! I should have bought the tool that went to 000-AWG.Oh well, off to Home Despot I go. But as it turns out, HD doesn’t sell 3/8-inch Type M; Type K, yes, but not Type-M.
Hmmm, I won’t be outdone! Off I go to the Hobby Store cos I know they have a wide assortment of Brass and SST tubing. And it turns out they do; massive selection in very small incremental sizes having very thin walls. I decide to take a chance and purchase the ½-inch diameter brass tubing and give it a try. Back home in my hidden hovel in the hill and using the tube-cutter, I diced off about a ½-inch slice. Then stripped 3 short pieces of 6-AWG Marine-Grade wire for a test crimp. The brass tubing had plenty of room in the jaws; I might have been able to go one size up at the hobby store. No matter; a 1:2 join is a perfectly fine test.
My first Crimp: Before
After. This was accomplished in two crimps and mashed all the way down solid. Note the large flangy parts. One of the wires crept out a bit. I think next time I’ll make the slice of tubing a tiny bit longer.
With Heat Shrink. Given the pointy edges of the flanges, I would opt to put one more wrap just to be safe. :wink:
Resistance is Futile
After my wires were assimilated into the Collective, I measured the resistance to see how the join faired. The shorter link came up with about 0.1 Ohms, and the longer link – the one that wiggled out a tiny bit – came up about 0.1 to 0.2. Between the two on the right, they came up 0.0. I have a 30-inch length of 6-AWG and it measured about 1.1 Ohms. Double checking, and now they all register 0. Hmm, well – anyways, it seems like a good strong join and I can't pull it apart. Brass is alright I think for a swaging material; I mean Copper is certainly better <nods>, but brass will do. Besides, the part that’s crushed together is copper and that’s what really matters.
Well, that’s me. I’m off to go start putting together my new harness. Thanks for the insights and the video; really appreciated. Hats off to IceCube 8)
Last word: The Hydraulic Wire Crimp Tool is exactly the same one offered by Harbor Freight. If I had to do it again, I’d get the tool that could swage larger wire: 0-AWG jaws just barely allows me to join three 6-AWG wires. For my next ride, I'll have to buy a larger tool or use a different method of connecting large wires.
Cheers, KF
Kingfish
100 MW
ADDENDUM:
The precision brass tubing I bought from the hobby store (a foot long for $3.40 USD w/ tax) had an OD of 0.4990-0.5000 inches. Whereas the ½-inch diameter Type-M tubing that you find at hardware stores actually measures 0.625 to 0.630 inches OD and has an ID of about 0.545 (0.04 wall), meaning that the brass tubing from the hobby store can neatly fit inside the copper tubing from the hardware store. Go figure? :? So what this means is that 5/8-inch tubing won’t fit inside the jaws of that HF crimp tool. I’m just trying to leave no stone unturned in the hunt for good material.
Cheers, KF
The precision brass tubing I bought from the hobby store (a foot long for $3.40 USD w/ tax) had an OD of 0.4990-0.5000 inches. Whereas the ½-inch diameter Type-M tubing that you find at hardware stores actually measures 0.625 to 0.630 inches OD and has an ID of about 0.545 (0.04 wall), meaning that the brass tubing from the hobby store can neatly fit inside the copper tubing from the hardware store. Go figure? :? So what this means is that 5/8-inch tubing won’t fit inside the jaws of that HF crimp tool. I’m just trying to leave no stone unturned in the hunt for good material.
- You can purchase precision Copper Tube type 101 that is 0.500 OD with 0.035 wall (0.43 ID) in single feet, or up to 8-foot lengths from OnlineMetals.Com in Seattle. One foot goes for $3.70 and they typically deliver the next day.
- Incidentally, Aluminum 6061-T6 in the same size is cheaper by 20%. I don’t know that the hydraulic jaws could crush it, but it would certainly be a lot stronger once crushed. There’s also a slightly thinner wall tube at 0.028 inch thick.
- The thinnest brass tubing that OnlineMetals has is 0.03 inch thick wall, and goes for even less at $2.86 for single foot.
- Stainless 304L/Welded tubing is yet even less at $2.50 for a single foot having a 0.035 wall; tough stuff.
- Cerro Flow manufactures precision ground thin-walled copper tubing as well. Catalog here.
- 14 & 15mm Tubing: I found some. In Great Britain, it can be had, except the sellers do not provide the wall thickness. From China – 14mm is available, but being that it’s from China… well…
Cheers, KF
I bought one of those tools last year off of Ebay for around $40, shipped. The seller (supposedly an individual) had the tool drop shipped directly from Harbor Freight!
Be wary of the wire sizes marked on those dies. They don't seem to have any relation to reality.
Be wary of the wire sizes marked on those dies. They don't seem to have any relation to reality.
icecube57
10 MW
I actually use two different die sizes because they seem to not have an in between size and it seems the larger sleeves are the only ones useful if you want a decent wire gauge. 8g to 3x 10g is the best i can do on my current sleeves. i can do 8g to 4x 12g. The crimps should look a little bit better. Do some more crimps and experiment with different combination die sizes. I think brass may be to soft or something. or you need a thicker side wall. Steel or copper isnt that to much more expensive. Find an online vendor that sells slightly larger sleeves. Since the the big box stores only carry two sizes.
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Kingfish
100 MW
I had an idea last night but had to wait until this morning to try it, but I took a piece of that 0.625 inch OD “1/2 inch” Type-M copper tubing, placed it in my vise, and gave it some compression - turning a circle into an oval, and then placed three 6-AWG wires into it with the “0-AWG” jaws and gave it a good hearty crimp. It works! Very solid too. Damn this sure beats fussing with solder.
So now my options open up a little bit. Still, I will need slightly smaller tubing for smaller swages. At least I can started on the big wire.
Are you assuaged? KF
Alan B
100 GW
Good finds on the tubing. I have been looking for larger tubing but have not spent a lot of time on it as the crimp rings have been working well for multiple #12's that I've been using.
One thing I would worry about is getting adequate compression on the center and the wings. I generally compress the wings to near nothing and have all wires in the middle hexagonal section. I really mash it, to the limit of what I can do to the lever with my bare hands.
I also flare the tubing out on both ends if possible. Tubing cutters are particularly bad at leaving a ridge in toward the wire that will try to cut the wire over time with vibration and motion.
Using a slightly longer tube and crimping the wires in each end, butt crimp style is also possible. The tube will be carrying current and then should be copper.
If the wires are mashed together the tube doesn't matter much. Thin walled stainless might be wonderful for that.
If the crimper is too small you know how to fix that.
One thing I would worry about is getting adequate compression on the center and the wings. I generally compress the wings to near nothing and have all wires in the middle hexagonal section. I really mash it, to the limit of what I can do to the lever with my bare hands.
I also flare the tubing out on both ends if possible. Tubing cutters are particularly bad at leaving a ridge in toward the wire that will try to cut the wire over time with vibration and motion.
Using a slightly longer tube and crimping the wires in each end, butt crimp style is also possible. The tube will be carrying current and then should be copper.
If the wires are mashed together the tube doesn't matter much. Thin walled stainless might be wonderful for that.
If the crimper is too small you know how to fix that.
Kingfish
100 MW
Alan B said:If the crimper is too small you know how to fix that.
:lol: Grinder? :lol:
I just placed an order with OnlineMetals for 3-feet of 0.50 OD x 0.035 wall (0.43 ID) inch Copper Tubing. This wall is more than 2X as thick as the hobby brass tubing I used yesterday; I think it will be sufficient. The lazy shipping was more expensive than the material; I could have done a Will-Call but my bike is down for this repair. Not bothered though; with tax the bill is $23.10 USD, and you have to ask yourself - "How much are those little copper swages cost at Home Despot?" :wink: (and that's if they carried any swages above 4-AWG... which they don't)
I agree with you though that deburring with the tube cutter is a PITA.
That last swage is cruched down hard as I could go and it ain't coming apart; I'd volunteer it for the anchor pull-test
Proud to be in league with the best crimpers!
~KF
