mid drive PAS on tight single track

[beachcruiser]

Hi guys,

I've got a BBS02 750W wtih a em3ev 16.5Ah triangle battery on a Giant Talon 1 27.5 MTB. On the weekend my mate asked me to join him in the Perth hills (Australia, Kalumunda for those in the know) to attack some single tracks. I've never done any serious single track on my ebike so this was a first. Anyway, it was an awesome morning and just great fun. I made a few observations though about my mid drive ebike compared to my mates on their standard MTBs.

Going uphill I can obviously kill the guys on the standard bike. The one problem though is on very tight technical uphill corners the PAS wants to shoot you off the track as soon as you pedal on a tight corner. I found that on the apex of the tight uphill corner I would go to pedal and the power would kick in a shoot me into a tree or a rock rather than keep on the tight bend. I tried reducing the PAS power setting say to 3 or so which helped but just interested in other's experience in this area. One thing I thought of was that I don't have ebrakes just normal disc brakes not connected to the electrics. with ebrakes I assume they cut the power if the brakes are on. Therefore on a tight corner such as this you could probably feather the brake to cut the power and take the corner more easily, is that right?

Secondly downhill I found the extra bulk of the ebike harder to keep up with my makes. Dont get me wrong I can take the wall rides, log rides and jumps etc at high speed but just not as fast as my mates. I think the additional 9km of motor and battery just make the bike a bit less manouverable downhill. Perhaps removing the 16Ah triangle battery and having a smaller 9Ah or 10Ah backpack battery would make the bike better for downhill. thoughts and experiences?

Anyway, I had a blast and only stacked it off the bike once!

Here's my bike for those interested.

 

[speedmd]

I hear you on the pas on tight trail use. You can program on pas zero to run 100% - throttle only, or unplug the pas to motor connector inside the unit and use throttle only. Brake delay can be modded a bit also.

 

[Dogboy1200]

I had the same problem with the PAS. I use throttle only.

 

[Samd]

Get a pushbutton brake cut and then you can choose when you apply the power cut on your own terms. I've moved away from coupling it into hydro brakes as sometimes you want one but not the other.

 

[beachcruiser]

Get a pushbutton brake cut

That sounds interesting. Any links for this one as I haven't come across it before?

edit. actually is this it http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=41_57&product_id=176

 

[Samd]

You can or just hook up your own. I can send one over if needed - just splice it into the existing wiring.

 

[beachcruiser]

You can or just hook up your own. I can send one over if needed - just splice it into the existing wiring.

that sounds good as it takes ages for the OS suppliers to get anything to us in oz. I'll drop you a PM.

 

[Rassy]

This is the push button cut-off that plugs right into the BBS harness:
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=198
I just use my trike on streets and paths, but there are many times when you don't want the PAS to kick in. This button is momentary, so you have to hold it in to prevent the PAS from kicking in.

 

[ginekolog]

On hard single tracks use of throtle + brake (or button) motor cut of is a must. I mostly ride on PAS 3 (70% of power) and have e-brakes.

 

[ferret]

For my single track riding I decided to remove the battery from the frame and place it in my backpack to get the bike as nimble as possible.

Avner.

 

[beachcruiser]

Thanks guys. I have ordered the motor cutoff button. I will also try taking my battery out of my triangle and stick it in my backpack. I will need to extend the csble though.

 

[WoodlandHills]

On hard single tracks use of throtle + brake (or button) motor cut of is a must. I mostly ride on PAS 3 (70% of power) and have e-brakes.

I set my display to 9 levels of auto-throttle (PAS) so I have the full selection and have the three button switch close enough to use as my throttle most of the time. I just tap up and down the button to speed up or slow down, if I need a shot of power I twist the throttle, if I need to kill power I just back pedal or brake.

I am geared pretty low so I can crawl along on in low gear on PAS 1 w/o overspeeding on a tight trail and, I suspect, that a lot depends upon the local terrain and the riders background/previous experiences.

 

[ecycler]

Everyone else got you covered on the throttle/cutoff button. That is definitely the way to go. As far as the downhill sections, I think in time you will adjust to the weight and balance of the bike better which will help you to improve your speed and handling. Is it possible that these guys also have a lot more experience on these particular trails you rode or have you ridden them before on regular bikes?

 

[FastJohnny]

Hi guys,
Going uphill I can obviously kill the guys on the standard bike. The one problem though is on very tight technical uphill corners the PAS wants to shoot you off the track as soon as you pedal on a tight corner. I found that on the apex of the tight uphill corner I would go to pedal and the power would kick in a shoot me into a tree or a rock rather than keep on the tight bend. I tried reducing the PAS power setting say to 3 or so which helped but just interested in other's experience in this area. One thing I thought of was that I don't have ebrakes just normal disc brakes not connected to the electrics. with ebrakes I assume they cut the power if the brakes are on. Therefore on a tight corner such as this you could probably feather the brake to cut the power and take the corner more easily, is that right?

Let me be the first to say not to get a cut off switch, you dont need it.

I have almost the exact same setup as you. Do you have the programming cable for the BBS-02? You can program some cool settings in the controller under PAS. You can completely change the stock programming on a BBS-02 from trying to kill you off road, to perfect.

The most important one is - how long it takes the motor to stop working after you stop pedaling. On tight twisty singletrack you might get 1 or 2 pedal strokes in, and need to change direction, the BBS-02 will by default try to put you into a tree by continuing to push for 2 seconds. Mine stops in 10ms

Another super important one - how much of a crank rotation before the motor kicks in. Sometimes you want to keep level cranks and rock your way through a rock garden without the motor kicking on.

How much initial power you have when the PAS kicks in, and to what degree it ramps up. Sounds like if you had a lower initial power, or slower ramp up it would greatly help your switchback issue. A higher initial power, or quicker ramp up makes wheelies super easy, and is nice when you stall at an obstacle.

 

[waynebergman]

Twist throttle with no pas for single track ='s fun for me. Get a program cable and try to enable the system to give you some options that suite your riding style. For my bike the change was dramatic with some changes like speed to current, pas 0 = throttle only and then rest of pas settings are more like a cruise control setting for day dreaming on road rides.
To each there own I guess, for how they like there units set up, but the stock from factory is not ideal for the fun stuff.

 

[ecycler]

Twist throttle with no pas for single track ='s fun for me. Get a program cable and try to enable the system to give you some options that suite your riding style. For my bike the change was dramatic with some changes like speed to current, pas 0 = throttle only and then rest of pas settings are more like a cruise control setting for day dreaming on road rides.
To each there own I guess, for how they like there units set up, but the stock from factory is not ideal for the fun stuff.

I am in your camp. Not a fan of PAS at all. My favorite way to roll is a throttle with a lock and cutoff button... definitely not for the average joe, though.

 

[Lostboy423]

Gearing down your front chain ring to a Luna 30T from the stock 46T helps a lot on single track. The downside is a lower overall top speed. I really like my PAS. I got rid of my throttle altogether.