pendragon8000
100 kW
left thumb and right palm.. bummer.
mon-goose to MON-STER
- Thread starter pendragon8000
- Start date
Rix
100 TW
pendragon8000 said:
Nice pic of the hand. Yep, a little road rash will humble most.
Rick
John Bozi
100 kW
Yeah the old gloves would have helped.
Been thinking to going full glove, will suck in summer.
Been thinking to going full glove, will suck in summer.
pendragon8000
100 kW
Still waiting for Holmes hobbies to reply about my spokes. I tried a different email address tonight so hopefully they got the message. Should have just waited for ebikes.CA damn it! Fyi they were doing renovations for a week.
Rix
100 TW
Holmes Hobbies sister company is Volt Riders. When I contacted JR, he referred me to Volt Riders. There email is sales@voltriders.com and there is a chance they are cutting your spokes for JR.
Rick
Rick
pendragon8000
100 kW
Thanks Rick. He's been out of town and says its likely been sent.
I'm looking at doing a custom frame utilizing the mongoose swing arm with tube for seat, head,Bb shell, suspension bearings and sheet .08inch from here.
http://racetechsteel.com.au/4130-chromoly
So I can step up to 30s. 125v hot off charge.
I'm looking at doing a custom frame utilizing the mongoose swing arm with tube for seat, head,Bb shell, suspension bearings and sheet .08inch from here.
http://racetechsteel.com.au/4130-chromoly
So I can step up to 30s. 125v hot off charge.
Trackman417
10 kW
Oh man. Just read your story. What a bummer man.
I found that when I tried to show off on the bike, something bad/unusual always happens. So I learned to try and never do anything out of the normal routine because the bike won't like it.... For what ever reason.
Hope you feel better mate. I'm surprised you haven't gotten the H40 series motors just yet. I bet you would have a ball with one of them!
I found that when I tried to show off on the bike, something bad/unusual always happens. So I learned to try and never do anything out of the normal routine because the bike won't like it.... For what ever reason.
Hope you feel better mate. I'm surprised you haven't gotten the H40 series motors just yet. I bet you would have a ball with one of them!
pendragon8000
100 kW
Thanks TM, I'm all good. Hopefully the cuts he'll enough for kung Fu on Saturday.
I guess I forgot that wide open throttle with fully charged pack is serious business in 6KW mode.
I'm looking at tig welding and it seems a bit difficult. So might tac weld a custom frame with mig and get it done by a pro. Or just mig the whole thing myself.
I guess I forgot that wide open throttle with fully charged pack is serious business in 6KW mode.
I'm looking at tig welding and it seems a bit difficult. So might tac weld a custom frame with mig and get it done by a pro. Or just mig the whole thing myself.
pendragon8000
100 kW
Also trackman, the 40xx motors yeah I would like that but then I'd be struggling to get 11t gear on the back. Its set up well so I can stand up sprint when on inclines at 55-60kph. Also the 35xx is lighter so rides better on jumps. But yeah I love beefy motors. I frequently go back to Kepler's 12kw bomber in thought . Because it was the first molded / DIY high power build I saw. And it was running 125v hoc on a slow wind 5405 Lyon controler 80amp molded
Basically I want to step my setup to a similar level just need another 6s. And can't find a good spot for it so I'll take my time making a new frame. A bit like a stealth fighter I'm thinking. Definitely don't Want a massive tank like a bomber or phasor. As awesome as they are.
Anyway anyone know the sheet thickness I'd need for a fighterish style frame?
I'm thinking .08 inch maby .06 if I can get away with it to save weight. I guess if I did .08 I could shave weight by using lighter side covers. Aluminum or cf 2mm
Anyway gotta paint the swing arm and motor.
Also gotta add a triangle like I did at the top of the box now down bottom cos I got another crack. Same bloody story as before.Should be sable to remedy it pretty easy.
Basically I want to step my setup to a similar level just need another 6s. And can't find a good spot for it so I'll take my time making a new frame. A bit like a stealth fighter I'm thinking. Definitely don't Want a massive tank like a bomber or phasor. As awesome as they are.
Anyway anyone know the sheet thickness I'd need for a fighterish style frame?
I'm thinking .08 inch maby .06 if I can get away with it to save weight. I guess if I did .08 I could shave weight by using lighter side covers. Aluminum or cf 2mm
Anyway gotta paint the swing arm and motor.
Also gotta add a triangle like I did at the top of the box now down bottom cos I got another crack. Same bloody story as before.Should be sable to remedy it pretty easy.
Rix
100 TW
pendragon8000 said:
Go with 2.0mm thick sheets. That will put you around 2.3mm with powder coating. The bulk of my bomber frame is 1.8mm (mic'd number shown with powder coat) with some sections being thicker like the subframe. I think 2.0mm thick would be ideal. The difference between a 1.8mm and 2.0mm thick frame would probably equate to a KG, 2kg tops, with a trellis type design. I am all about over engineering and gladly pay a slight weight penalty for durability and strength.
Rick
pendragon8000
100 kW
THanks so much for checking that Rick. I was just checking the difference between mild steel and 4130 cromo and it seems it weighs the same but cost a fair bit more and although the strength difference can allow for less material and less weight.Rix said:
I'll see what price I can sheet 4130 for . Still waiting for a reply from a racing joint in NSW.
They have all the tube I need (correct Internal diameter) for steer tube, seat post, press fit bottom bracket.
I'm thinking enough space for 3 6s packs long ways, 2 high and 2 wide.
Rix
100 TW
pendragon8000 said:
Sweet, cant wait to see it.
Rix
100 TW
PenD, grabbed this off your post on the Phasor thread. The downtube on my Discovolante is about 61cm. As far as geometry goes, I would find a bike frame that you like the handling on and build yourself a Jig for the head tube to seat tube to bottom bracket tube ratio and relationship. That way, your geometry stays the same no matter what else you do during fabrication. The swingarm will have to be true between the axles mounts and the pivot but is much less critical because there is not much else that can be screwed up on the swingarm. Except maybe being to wide for pedal clearance, but that can be avoided with a little forethought. on my disco, from the top of the seat post to the head tube is 22.75 (58cm) inches. Bottom tube is 24 (61cm) inches. From the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat tube is 17.5 (45cm) inches. Hope the measurements help with your build.
Rick
Attachments
pendragon8000
100 kW
Thanks Rick. 61cm down tube is quite long. The fighter "down tube" looks like shorter than 50 cm. Yet the bomber looks much longer like 55-60 and the phasor is huge by the looks, similar to bomber I think. . Yeah I think I'll copy the bikes I've got to some extent. I'm going to use solid works cad to dedighn a sheet metal monocoque. That should allow the use of the files to have the sheet CNC cut. So I won't use a jig in the design stage.
Thanks to Kepler. I pmed him about solid works and has offered his help.
Thanks to Kepler. I pmed him about solid works and has offered his help.
Rix said:
Rix
100 TW
pendragon8000 said:
With Kepler, involved, you success is guaranteed. He doesn't know how to fail. His builds are awesome. Since I know shit about cad programs, I have to do mine the old school route. Build a Jig, then design a trellis frame around the jig. Got a drawing, but it sucks but and looks like I am copying Drunk Skunks bike to a certain extent. But I got to get a house with a shop first.
Rick
pendragon8000
100 kW
Yeah Rick, Kepler has it sussed. Still having issues installing the CAD . I think I need to burn an ISO that's 5.5gb onto a double layer DVD for it to work.
Anyway welding with Pendragon
[youtube]viTUyLiNt0Y[/youtube]
Anyway welding with Pendragon
[youtube]viTUyLiNt0Y[/youtube]
Rix
100 TW
Good stuff Pend, found out some interesting info, the torques bikes frame is made from 2.3mm thick cromo. It would appear that anything from 2-2.3mm would be strong enough for you home build frame.
Rick
Rick
pendragon8000
100 kW
Interesting. Thanks Rick. I was starting to think 1.6mm would be OK. I'll have to consider 2mm I guess. The thing is most bike frames are 1.6mm (I think) and chromo is almost 2 times stronger than steel. Also considering oxy acetelean welding to heat treat as I weld. And don't have to pay someone to TIG.
But yeah I was thinking (and this last crack is verification) that material thickness is less critical than frame design.
But yeah I was thinking (and this last crack is verification) that material thickness is less critical than frame design.
Rix
100 TW
pendragon8000 said:
Yes, Material thickness is less critical than frame design. Bikes like the Stealth, Phasor, and Torques are what the auto industry would call "unibody" designed. The rigidity of these frames comes from the design, and depend on the side panels being bolted on. Especially true on the narrow by comparison Phasor frame.
pendragon8000
100 kW
Yeah good point. I've been looking at the stealth fighter on Kepler's stealths page. There's a pic where you can see how little frame there is in the middle of the body. 3 bolts on front,3 rear and 3 top are enough to use the side panel for triangulation so there's no parallelogram warping of the frame...Rix said:
Samd
10 MW
On the stealth design, the middle material that is removed sits along the neutral axis for bending, so material is not needed there for bending, just for torsional stiffness.
The torsional stiffness can be compensated for - put back via internal gussets instead.
Go the thicker Cromo, and make lots of small holes on a flatbed laser. or if you have time for a one off frame, use a drill and diegrinder. This is what Raptor have realised. Pity about the width.
You'll find Mig easier for Cromo.
Are you trying to duplicate a stealth of is there some features you are trying to integrate for your own style of use?
The torsional stiffness can be compensated for - put back via internal gussets instead.
Go the thicker Cromo, and make lots of small holes on a flatbed laser. or if you have time for a one off frame, use a drill and diegrinder. This is what Raptor have realised. Pity about the width.
You'll find Mig easier for Cromo.
Are you trying to duplicate a stealth of is there some features you are trying to integrate for your own style of use?
pendragon8000
100 kW
Thanks for that info. Can you elaberate on what you mean re: torsional stiffness?Samd said:
I'm thinking the frame can bend at the corners of the battery box area (looking side on). Although the top is triangulated a bit so that can't compress as bad as dead flat sheet.
And bottom will be pulled so flat is OK.
I'm not trying to make a stealth and don't need the volume of frame even of a fighter I believe. I don't want to copy but the stealth frame is a very good example of well thought out engineering and revised from experience design.
I had considered a vertical spine guest thing down the centre of the frame but then that will pass on stress to horizontal sheets and pull on them 90° to their face , so not such great option. 1 side closed and 1 side access panel is appealing.
Also 44mm head tube for 1.5" steer tube headset and bottom bracket on frame with suspension pivot behind it is what I'm thinking. The swing arm is what I'm not sure about. Triangle is strong and easy, single arm is inherently weaker and suspension mount?
Samd
10 MW
Torsional stiffness? Sure. There are two main kinds of loads on the middle battery box.
The first is bending, imagine straddling the bike and pushing forward on the handle bars and back on the seat (or landing a jump). Or vice versa. The top of the box shown in yellow would be lengthened or compressed, and the opposite would happen to the bottom battery box. Along the red line in the middle there would be neither (neutral axis) so you can remove the metal on the side walls with little effect. I've used a square box to simplify.
But for torsional stiffness imagine straddling the bike again and pushing the bars left and the seat right. Or in the pic below imagine twisting one of the red ends clockwise and the other in the opposite direction. Like wringing out a tea towel by twisting it.
Now the missing side panels come into play.
Adding internal gussets such as these rudimentary ones shown in blue can reduce the effect.
A traditional triangular bike frame is actually a really cool thing, it takes a small amount of metal and moves it out from the center of the bike in an efficient package to make a strong structure for the weight. When I designed the top tank in the aluminium bike in my sig, I wanted a bike with 555 or 666 watt hours on board, smaller than a stealth. I blame Kepler for letting me ride his 2Kw bafang fighter
And I wanted to harness the good design of existing bikes with a large open triangle. And make it rain/tamper proof from the top.
Putting the battery box into a single inline package like stealth's does simplify the design and fabrication, and can be made big in size because of the number of watt hours being held inside. But if you are going for a smaller battery capacity it can pay to consider a triangular frame again.
Kepler is also a Mech Eng - he can help you with these thoughts about tradeoffs.
There are some good wikipedia entries on load/failure mechanisms and things like thin wall buckling. Worth a cursory glance - easier to handle when you know there isn't an exam at the end.
If you use a thinner gauge, one way to prevent thin wall buckling is to use a heavier gauge, find the spots that aren't stressed much under any loading type, and drill the heck out of them. Or use your removable battery covers as stressed members - you'll need good fasteners.
The first is bending, imagine straddling the bike and pushing forward on the handle bars and back on the seat (or landing a jump). Or vice versa. The top of the box shown in yellow would be lengthened or compressed, and the opposite would happen to the bottom battery box. Along the red line in the middle there would be neither (neutral axis) so you can remove the metal on the side walls with little effect. I've used a square box to simplify.
But for torsional stiffness imagine straddling the bike again and pushing the bars left and the seat right. Or in the pic below imagine twisting one of the red ends clockwise and the other in the opposite direction. Like wringing out a tea towel by twisting it.
Now the missing side panels come into play.
Adding internal gussets such as these rudimentary ones shown in blue can reduce the effect.
A traditional triangular bike frame is actually a really cool thing, it takes a small amount of metal and moves it out from the center of the bike in an efficient package to make a strong structure for the weight. When I designed the top tank in the aluminium bike in my sig, I wanted a bike with 555 or 666 watt hours on board, smaller than a stealth. I blame Kepler for letting me ride his 2Kw bafang fighter
And I wanted to harness the good design of existing bikes with a large open triangle. And make it rain/tamper proof from the top.
Putting the battery box into a single inline package like stealth's does simplify the design and fabrication, and can be made big in size because of the number of watt hours being held inside. But if you are going for a smaller battery capacity it can pay to consider a triangular frame again.
Kepler is also a Mech Eng - he can help you with these thoughts about tradeoffs.
There are some good wikipedia entries on load/failure mechanisms and things like thin wall buckling. Worth a cursory glance - easier to handle when you know there isn't an exam at the end.
If you use a thinner gauge, one way to prevent thin wall buckling is to use a heavier gauge, find the spots that aren't stressed much under any loading type, and drill the heck out of them. Or use your removable battery covers as stressed members - you'll need good fasteners.
pendragon8000
100 kW
Samd, thanks. the diagrams are cool. Yeah triangle frames are very good. To me it makes sense to use monocoque because I need a battery box anyway.
I want to house 10x 6s 5ah turnigy lipo. 100x100x500mm
the diagrams are cool. Yeah triangle frames are very good. To me it makes sense to use monocoque because I need a battery box anyway.I want to house 10x 6s 5ah turnigy lipo. 100x100x500mm
Samd
10 MW
6s bricks are a bit more like 55mm, but I know what you mean.
You lost me there with the 10x6s. Do you mean 12 bricks like this fella?
Your other option might be to fill the top and downtube. I'm still entertaining it with one of my 12 donor frames:
The downtube could be 1 wide for 9 bricks. Or vice versa, the top tube 1 wide.
6s bricks are stinkers - that extra few mm adds up when doubled. Zippy compacts have come down in price - but you need to allow for the way the leads come out of the packs. The dimensions on hobbyking are a bit average sometimes, it pays to order a brick, measure, then order the rest right way. Last time I ordered some 20C 5s zippys, I got a mixture of widths. I reckon they had some 25c packs that were downgraded, and relabeled them. Maybe.
You lost me there with the 10x6s. Do you mean 12 bricks like this fella?
Your other option might be to fill the top and downtube. I'm still entertaining it with one of my 12 donor frames:
The downtube could be 1 wide for 9 bricks. Or vice versa, the top tube 1 wide.
6s bricks are stinkers - that extra few mm adds up when doubled. Zippy compacts have come down in price - but you need to allow for the way the leads come out of the packs. The dimensions on hobbyking are a bit average sometimes, it pays to order a brick, measure, then order the rest right way. Last time I ordered some 20C 5s zippys, I got a mixture of widths. I reckon they had some 25c packs that were downgraded, and relabeled them. Maybe.