Moonshine's Vector/MXUS/MaxE Build

[moonshine]

I almost hate the fact that I'm into this again....I was clean off ebikes for over a year now (ebikes anonymous). Sold my raptor build to buy a ring and now I'm back. I just miss it so much. After going through the process of repairing my dad's electra cruiser with ypedal's MXUS geared kit, I HAD to look at the forums and therefore got hooked again.

This time around I'm shooting for a more modest but clean build. I already starting the process by getting mxus 4T laced into a 19x1.6" rim by roadrash. That's in the works.... I will most definitely be getting the Adaptto Max-E as well.

For frames...i've been looking at the vector for a while now. I thought about the NYX kit...but that would put me WAY over my budget. Since the wife will be auditing my new ebike build/purchases--I've set a prelim cap of $3000. I know....mxus laced into 19 + max-E...already pushing 2k. Whatever GCinDC. I'll get there somehow.

After my raptor build....I felt somewhat heavy--literally. That bike was a beast and it rode like one too. I don't want a >100lb bike this time. I also don't want a frame ridiculously wide because it has to accommodate a million lipos. The phasor frame has a nice width but the shape doesn't really sit well with me (IMO). The raptor is too wide at 160mm (now 140mm apparently) and the vector although better at 125mm is still a little wide. Thought about just buying a used giant dh team/comp and retrofitting it again....but it won't feel like a "clean build" Maybe a surly frame? Cruiser bike? Do i need full badass suspension? I don't know...

For batteries....Lipos are awesome, but they scare me now that I live in a house with another human being + dog that I have to care for. I haven't had any frock ups yet, but I don't want to push it. I thought about switching over to custom packs from EM3ev with the samsung 25R cells or even see if AllCell will make a custom batt for me. Thinking about 20s or 24s with about 10-15 Ah. I figured if I have a <100lb bike I won't need 20Ah. Gonna be riding around in DC area.

The only thing i purchased thus far are the rims and motor (not too late to bail...). Looking for input on this build. Safety is important so if i plan on going fast...>35mph I should probably pony up and get full suspension right? Does that mean a turnkey frame? Ideas?

 

[beast775]

If you got a good used DH bike There are nice over frame top bags that are well made,you could get a dummy bbq put a lock on it and use it for storage at the back of your yard.which mxus are you running,i read post but didnt see it. but cellman sounds like a great idea! You can see a frame bag in Marks winter project in ebike photos and video.

 

[USAEBIKECO]

You would definitely want a full suspension rather than not have it.

 

[jansevr]

happy to see that youre back moonshine, your previous raptor build was very inspiring =). i might recommend a genesis for your build. maybe go with a fafle extended swingarm (i think teslanv might be making more). also his mxus build on the genesis seems like the lightweight and relatively inexpensive bike youre talking about: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66978

im currently running a mxus with a greentime 36 fet at 10kw peak and its a beast. 24fet would probably be enough and about 120 or so (if i remember correctly) shipped to your door. for even $2000 on a genesis you could upgrade just about everything and run around 5-6kw for a great commuter and top out around 40-45mph depending on voltage/tire size.

 

[teslanv]

Indeed, icewrench and I have begun the initial stages of fabricating the Farfle swing arms for the Genesis V2100.
I really like riding mine. Looking forward to following your build, moonshine.

 

[Lurkin]

Subscribed.

Also considering a Vector frame for similar reasons. I really like the housing concept and may use it with a smaller motor/ greater capacity for distance combo for the commute. Similarly have the boss auditing my every purchase! I located a brand new DH fork for AUD220... I think it's all possible, it just takes longer to seek out decent deals.

Little concerned that the Vector kickstarter was suspended and I haven't seen a reason as to why...

Ask Artur if the timing of his ordering of other parts relates to the funds from kickstart arriving (which they won't) and he kinda skipped that question... Frankly he kinda stuck to a sales pitch rather than providing anything further than the price of a frame (was looking for a price list, which was promised to be provided in the future when he is able to sell other stuff)....

 

[dbaker]

If you are going to feed the Mxus for full performance I think you do need closer to a 20ah pack. Multistar lipo is an easy route? The Adapto guys are now running 18650 packs, over 200 cells. You need to decide how much current...

 

[moonshine]

I'll look into the kickstsrter stuff....

As for the batteries...really trying to go with 18650 cells instead of hobbyking lipo for this build. Trying to hash out details with em3ev or anyone that will build a pack for me. Know anyone?

Right now after searching around it looks like it's between vector and the raptor frame. The vector frame has very competitive pricing and the frame is pretty nice. The raptor is now thinner but the positioning of the bottom bracket is not ideal for me. I don't know the weight...but i heard the vector was surprisingly heavy.

At around 0100 today I started thinking about mid drives.....or even a nice lighter endure bike or DH bike with a geared rear hub and a small allcell battery pack. I don't know!

 

[Lurkin]

You won't find much. Probably because the thread about Vector frames is dominated by people pro Vector rather than really questioning whats happening with it.

Artur has said Kickstart was inappropriate for larger purchases and it was for tax reasons they cancelled it. Others have accused of reselling someone elses idea (against kickstarts rules) and false pledges (who knows.... also against Kickstarts rules).

Sounds like rubbish to me, but the question more is - can I get away with just purchasing a frame and moving on? Its what I'm debating at the moment. Artur does use Paypal, so I guess if it doesn't show up, claim it back? There's not much more to it really.

As for weight... seems to vary around 10 -11 kgs... It's in the $624 Vector frame thread in a photo.

I have a (small) 18650 pack from Em3ev which I have had no issues with.... I'm considering the same dilemma.

 

[macribs]

I have bought a Vector frame from Artur and I will say Artur was pleasant to deal with. Very good communications, even when I had doubts and (as usual) was indecisive what frame to choose or buying one of his demo bikes. He was patient and professional all the way. After paying with wire transfer rather then paypal (4% paypal "TAX" ) he kept me informed all the way. I even made changes to the order midways and got spacers, and an extra set of side covers. No problem for them. Adjusted the balance and shipment was send and arrived as planned.

What happen at kickstarter is beyond the point as I see it. It is in the past, Vector has in a few months sold frames all over. Europe, aussie, north america. I have never heard paying customers complain about information, tracking numbers or nothing else. One frame got banged up during transport (these things could happen to any vendor) and the frame owner emailed pics of the frame upon arrival and got a new frame.

I am no fanboy or fanatic. There are other good choices to choose also. And even more new frames coming shortly.
I will just weigh in and tell my story - after all the purchase process, payment and trust therein are for many a valid concern when dealing with a company that is rather new on the market. In my experience Artur and Vector bike is to be trusted.

For those of you thinking of 18650's check out the salvage Tesla's. They build what you need. You get great cells.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=67661

 

[Lurkin]

Artur's demeaner has never been in question. He is always very positive...

His ability to answer questions selectively has been as is his failed attempt to raise funds from the public. The explanation for which has been dubious at best.

Very good communications

he kept me informed all the way

Which has been the opposite to my experience. When asked by PM (to avoid raising eyebrows unnecessarily) he simply ignores questions that do not relate to making a sale. It was only when I asked the question again in the public thread, did he give me anything other than a sales blurb. As previously disclosed, what was written in the thread is probably rubbish anyway.

The thread about Vector frames is dominated by people pro Vector rather than really questioning whats happening with it.

What happen at kickstarter is beyond the point as I see it.

Which is exactly the attitude of what I've described. Everyone in the thread has turned a blind eye. Probably because they have taken a risk and it's paid off. Fair enough.

This is not an attempt to put people off buying from Artur. More the point of buyer beware. Its naive to ignore insufficiently, unexplained financial history to expect future financial dealings to be seamless going forward... Glossing over someones past doesn't make it better - it makes it a surprise for anyone dealing with that individual who wasn't aware of it. It's not unusual for people to have relatively consistent financial behaviors... good or bad.

As I've detailed, the risk of something going wrong is still present. The only mitigating factors are Paypal and the hope of 'it won't be me because the guy before me was ok'.... which is exactly what I've written previously as well....

 

[Scott]

Welcome back!

Thought about just buying a used giant dh

You should definitely go with a Giant DH Team again!

 

[macribs]

Artur's demeaner has never been in question. He is always very positive...

His ability to answer questions selectively has been as is his failed attempt to raise funds from the public. The explanation for which has been dubious at best.

Very good communications

he kept me informed all the way

Which has been the opposite to my experience. When asked by PM (to avoid raising eyebrows unnecessarily) he simply ignores questions that do not relate to making a sale. It was only when I asked the question again in the public thread, did he give me anything other than a sales blurb. As previously disclosed, what was written in the thread is probably rubbish anyway.

The thread about Vector frames is dominated by people pro Vector rather than really questioning whats happening with it.

What happen at kickstarter is beyond the point as I see it.

Which is exactly the attitude of what I've described. Everyone in the thread has turned a blind eye. Probably because they have taken a risk and it's paid off. Fair enough.

This is not an attempt to put people off buying from Artur. More the point of buyer beware. Its naive to ignore insufficiently, unexplained financial history to expect future financial dealings to be seamless going forward... Glossing over someones past doesn't make it better - it makes it a surprise for anyone dealing with that individual who wasn't aware of it. It's not unusual for people to have relatively consistent financial behaviors... good or bad.

As I've detailed, the risk of something going wrong is still present. The only mitigating factors are Paypal and the hope of 'it won't be me because the guy before me was ok'.... which is exactly what I've written previously as well....

I can't understand your problems. Really.
If you or any others don't like Artur, Vector in general, Vector customers, the thread or whatever else about Vector simply just choose another option. Speculating, over analyzing will not help you and it will surely not help vector. As I see it we should welcome any and all efforts to take ebiking more mainstream or simplifying the process of getting build complete.

So you don't like Vector - fine. No problem with that. But why try to look for all what you find negative? Let your money talk and buy from someone else. Heck you can even get the exact same frame and swing arm from E-kross. And possible from China as well according to resent discoveries. And then there are dozens of other possibilities. You don't need Vector bikes if you don't like/trust or even if you hate them. Just put your money elsewhere.

I think all new companies should get a little slack. They are on the way to become pro's. No one is born a pro. It takes practice no matter if you are trying to be world Champ in golf, a real good athlete or a business man. And as a new company that has been able to deliver their product more or less on time for their costumers that tells me what I need to know. That the guys behind Vector are hard working and are really trying.

Seems many people are butthurt regarding Vector. Either let your money do the talking or step up and do it better yourself. I am sure it is possible to get to buy frames from the same manufacturer and designer that both Vector and E-kross are buying the frames.

Don't be butthurt - be better!

 

[Lurkin]

I think you have distinctly misunderstood what I have written and it's intention. It's not an emotive issue. Like/dislike don't come into it. I have already written I have no personal gripe with Artur.

Based on the information available, I considered Artur's explanation insufficient. I agree this is a speculative view, based on the limited information available to me.

The only way to eliminate speculation is to provide sufficient, clear, reasonable information to stamp it out. Precisely as I was requesting by both PM and in the Vector thread. I am in another country, half way around the world. It is not cost effective to get information from him any other way. It was taken from a risk averse perspective because I know how hard it is to recover small amounts of money from overseas - without Paypayls support, it was impossible and a write off.

I consider the explanations provided by Arthur were insufficient.

You have read this twice now and are probably still satisfied. That's fine and is entirely your choice. It is exactly the purpose of writing it - for the OP to make this decision for themselves and be aware that another person has read the same information - and came to a different conclusion. That may be due to a difference in belief system, culture, experience, education - whatever.

I may still purchase from Artur or E-Kross or China. You are well aware I am also making this decision. It is not personal - it's a commercial decision to make based on risk and the information available.

Perhaps if you want to continue to debate this we should either start another thread or write in the other thread of mine. We have both made our views clear and are now just hijacking this one...

 

[moonshine]

Whoa! You guys can hash out vector business habits somewhere else. The only thing I will add is that I don't like to wire money to international banks as a way of payment. Paypal is almost the only way I will pay for products. There is just no safety net any other way. Regardless of their reputation.


On a different note. I'm still leaning towards the vector frame and I'm just waiting for the Artur to get adaptto controllers so that I can get both at once. I'll be honest, I've definitely been eyeing the 140 raptor frames again. I'm still hung up on the fact that they have such a low hanging bottom bracket. My previous build with the 165mm raptor had issues with the bb height because I put a 19" moto rim in the back and in the FRONT. But I already ordered two 19" rims for my vector frame since the bb height is so much higher. Probably should put a 26" in the front (no need for a heavy ass 19" moto rim in the front) but I like the hypermotard look.

The raptor frame shape looks better IMO than the vector but the vector is so much more narrow. I would love some more input from the 140 raptor frame builds and the vector builds (although they'll be biased hopefully they'll be honest about the shortcomings of their frames).

Anyone think that there might be problems with rideability with a dynamic bottom bracket on the vector frame? The distance from the bb to the swingarm pivot is minimal, but not zero. I wonder of that will feel weird when pedaling.

Does anyone have any thoughts on raptor 140 vs vector? Would be sweet to get a hold of a bomber frame only.


My build is coming along but not set im stone...just gotta order all the shit.

Frame:
• Vector or raptor 140

Frame Components:
Motor:
• MXUS XF40-45H 45mm 3000W Motor - 4T (9Kv)

Suspension:
-2015 Fox DHX RC4 kashima with 500 lb
-2013 Manitou Dorado expert with extra leg

Drivetrain:
• 2 – 19x1.6 Holmes MMP Moped Rims,
• 2 – Shinko SR241 tires with rim strips
• 1 – DMR convertible 20mm hub
• 1 – phase wire upgrade

Controller:
• Adaptto Max-E, 28s BMS
• 70a Charging coil

Battery:
• EM3ev battery (Samsung 18650-25R) 22s8p (92.4v, 20Ah) or schwisbi 25R pack

Miscellaneous:
• Domino or Magura Throttle, 90/55

 

[macribs]

If you look hard and long you might be able to pick up stealth bike for low cost. I've seen one for sale on the forum with a dead battery.
Then there was another on ebay(?) last fall with burned motor and dead battery. But I have yet to see someone part with the frame only. As for most people the frame will be the most precious. But if you keep trawling those for sale ads you might be lucky. Maybe someone crashed and damaged their front end and forgot to disconnect the battery?

The only thing I think might be better for the Qulbix Raptor is share frame strength. As it is a true monoqouqe design, with thick plates and even internal bolt ons to spread load. The downside of raptor you know well.

 

[moonshine]

Not likely to find a stealth frame but it would be expensive as shit anyway. I always start these builds with the intention of being cheaper than a bomber but I get damn close.

This build will cost me about 4.5k. Hate it. But im trying to find a a balance between reliability, performance, and cost.

Vector frames are cheaper than raptor frames. Custom frames are not really any option for me. Will look into downhill frames again just to be sure. But retrofitting batteries and making it look nice is a PITA. I'll figure this out.

Any input from custom frame, raptor, vector, stealth owners appreciated.

 

[macribs]

Starting to be pretty decent selection of e-bike frame kits to choose from here on the forum. Sure you will find one that fits your need, style of riding and budget. You can not go wrong with either one of them.

There is also a red frame kit presentet as a teaser on a russian forum a few weeks back. Should be ready soon. Price and details unknown. Then there is various cruiser bike frames, both on forum, from China and and in US.

• Vector 625 $
• E-Kross limited offer frame+motor+wheel 990$
• Qulbix Raptor 1090€
• Silver Bullet (price and launch date unknown)
• Chaika from Russia price around 1,000-1,200 $
• Genesis v2100 Assult Price vary upon selection
• 4Motus 870€
• Boggrunner 950£
• Phasor Frame 1990 $
• Nyx Carbon Fiber frame 1,990 $

If someone was forgotten let me know and I will add to the list.

 

[moonshine]

I was looking into the nyx frames but they're soo expensive!

I think i'm gonna order all the components and hopefully will find a frame by then!

 

[macribs]

If you like the HPC Revolution bike they now have a limited offer to ES forum. Frame kit only. This frame is seriously light weight. Only 5.7 kilo swing arm included. Seems to have the widest swing arm of them all. 3.5" tires are NP. Maybe even 4" tire will fit. 2200$.

It seems that the frame kit will be a one-time offer limited to 10 frames. After they are gone only complete bikes to purchase.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53943&p=1027938#p1027875

 

[moonshine]

I'll be honest, at that price tag I would get the nyx frame instead. Also, it doesn't look very aesthetically pleasing to me.

I'm like going to get the vector just cause it's so cheap maybe the raptor if it price goes down even further. Or just get all my components and wait for the perfect frame option.

Already ordered my fox rc4 kashima, dorado fork, mxus 4t in 19" moto rims. I'm working on getting the adaptto maxe package.

If i order from vector than I'll just get it all from Artur, if not in looking for other people who are selling the controller, bms, and coil.

The battery...well in the process of getting it worked out, the final dimensions depend on which frame I go for but I'm leaning towards Samsung 25r 22s8p or 9p. Apparently (per gcindc) the maxe can do 22s (92.4v) without problems. So i'll do that.

If not, I'll likely do 21s9p

Anyone have input on the best battery configuration for the MAX-E?

 

[Longshot]

The best frame for ground clearance is the NYX. The BB is the pivot for the swing arm, too.

 

[Longshot]

I'll be honest, at that price tag I would get the nyx frame instead. Also, it doesn't look very aesthetically pleasing to me.

I'm like going to get the vector just cause it's so cheap maybe the raptor if it price goes down even further. Or just get all my components and wait for the perfect frame option.

Already ordered my fox rc4 kashima, dorado fork, mxus 4t in 19" moto rims. I'm working on getting the adaptto maxe package.

If i order from vector than I'll just get it all from Artur, if not in looking for other people who are selling the controller, bms, and coil.

The battery...well in the process of getting it worked out, the final dimensions depend on which frame I go for but I'm leaning towards Samsung 25r 22s8p or 9p. Apparently (per gcindc) the maxe can do 22s (92.4v) without problems. So i'll do that.

If not, I'll likely do 21s9p

Anyone have input on the best battery configuration for the MAX-E?

Dude, get the NYX. The Vector swing arm sucks. 22s will probably be OK if you dont run a lot of phase amps and push it. You will have to make a custom balance cable. If you want to max your amps then 20s is the ticket so the caps have more room for peaks and spikes.

 

[moonshine]

Everything is ordered and en route! I'm listing components w/ as much pertinent info in case anyone else tries to look this up. I'll update the parts that don't work...

Frame:
-Vector, black vented and non-vented side covers

Components:
-2015 Fox DHX RC4 kashima with 500 lb spring
-2013 Manitou Dorado Expert with Extra leg
-Hope Tech 3 V4 brakes w/ 203mm Floating Rotors and IS disc adaptors
-Origin8 175mm crankarms with square taper
-Origin8 38T chainring
-Kinaye 12T freewheel
-KMC 1/2"x3/32" chain
-Shimano saint MX80 pedals
-Chris King conventional 1-1/8" 34mm inner diameter headset
-Gravity handlebar w/ gravity direct mount stem
-Hope headset spacers
-Hope seatclamp (28.6mm)
-Domino Throttle
-Brooks B-17 leather saddle

Drivetrain:
-MXUS XF40-45H 45mm 3000W Motor - 4T (9Kv) with phase wire upgrade
–19x1.6 Holmes MMP Moped Rims
–Shinko SR241 tires with rim strips
–DMR convertible 20mm hub

Controller:
-Adaptto Max-E
-28s BMS
-70a Charging coil

Battery:
-20s8p (Samsung 18650-25R/84v, 20Ah) from Schwisbi
-Custom charger: 3 meanwell HRP-300 in series from Teslanv


I would like some help on good charging ports. I saw Allex use speakon connectors which looked pretty cool. Also need some feedback on a robust/easy setup for precharge and breaker/contactor switch. Any thoughts on that? Or thoughts on the build in general? I'll post pics of parts later...

 

[macribs]

Great parts list