Motorcycle class Hub Motor

michaelplogue said:
Groovy. I figured you would have it manufactured using standard motorcycle discs - no offense intended. I think that this will be a great product.

I'm thinking the biggest hurdle with mounting the disc to the cover would be to have enough thickness and be of a strong enough material for the disc mounting bolts to have a good enough bite. Rather than putting the mounting holes in the cover itself, I wonder if it would be possible to make an outer ring that is connected via the existing cover bolts, and then have a smaller ring with the disc mounting holes, the two rings attached together via radial arms. Instead of having a dished cover, make it nearly flat (widening the outer shell) to make this sort of disc adapter easier to attach.

Alternatively - depending on the manufacturing process used for the covers - you could include some solid, thick ribs in the cover where the disc mounting holes could be tapped. Stamped covers I don't think would work. I'm guessing It would have to be either cast or milled.


Oh No I took no offense at all Please keep the comments coming the last thing I want is to order 100 motors just to find out I forgot something and have to rework them in some way. Been there done that and its no fun I can tell you.

The covers I have are casted and I just don't trust castings I'm sure there are voids in the side covers so its going to be a challenge. I'm thinking a machined side cover produced by my shop or I'll sub it out. The only positive thing is that the side cover has steel embedded in the aluminum for the bearing housing. If they could embed steel for the disc mount with a spider that goes out to the spoke hub then I have a good design. Since they know how to cast aluminum around steel it may be easy for them to extend this to the discs mount.

Thanks

Mark
 
If they can embed a steel backplane, that should do the job. Extending the steel 'web' all the way to the cover mounting holes would guarantee that the cover is good and strong. Having just a 'floating' embedded plate would still worry me about stresses that could cause the aluminum to crack.

I guess another decision you'll have to make is what hole pattern you'll use. I don't know if the outer radius of the various types are the same, but hole patterns vary widely from dirt bikes, cruisers, street, etc.
 
michaelplogue said:
If they can embed a steel backplane, that should do the job. Extending the steel 'web' all the way to the cover mounting holes would guarantee that the cover is good and strong. Having just a 'floating' embedded plate would still worry me about stresses that could cause the aluminum to crack.

I guess another decision you'll have to make is what hole pattern you'll use. I don't know if the outer radius of the various types are the same, but hole patterns vary widely from dirt bikes, cruisers, street, etc.

The variations in disc mounting and spacing is all over the place, so a steel ring with a web that goes all the way to the mounting bolts will give me the option to use an array of spacers and mounting Diam. hopefully it will be as close to a universal mounting system as I can come up with. I would want to use the customers disc. A disc can cost over a hunderd dollars so its important for cost savings. There is going to be some custom drilling and fitting but that's what value added is all about.

Mark
 
pgt400 said:
Whats the eff on a hub motor this size? It seems the bike ones are in the 80% range? The pancake motors (mars/lem/perm/agni) are all in the high 80's low 90's.

The motor is based on a 5302 design so I'm guessing in the mid 80%

One important thing to remember is there are no secondary losses with a hub motor no chain losses (a few percent) and no noise at all. Hub motor quite.

You may give up a little EFF for the simplicity of drop in a motor and go. Also you can carry alot more batteries in a hub design which will easily make up for a little eff lose.

while I'm here; latest test results

78 volt no load test yields 60 MPH with 18 inch rim and 3 inch tire. I'm pretty happy with those results

Waiting for the snow to melt so I can get on the road
Mark
 
A better look at the hub
Also those who have followed my build know I used a chain drive boost motor along with a 5302 hub motor. It gave the bike a real motorcycle feel.

To be true to this new Hub motor testing I removed the chain drive boost brush motor so I can evaluate the motor as others would. I'll miss the boost motor no mater how fast the new motor is.

[youtube]B-5sodgQ2m0[/youtube]
 
Looks good. Now if only Global Warming would kick in and it get warm enough for a test ride.


BRRRRRRRRRRRR, dropping down to 45 here in Florida.
 
drewjet said:
Looks good. Now if only Global Warming would kick in and it get warm enough for a test ride.


BRRRRRRRRRRRR, dropping down to 45 here in Florida.

45 I'll take 45 any day its 20 as the high here on Long Island. I'm waiting for 45 (later in the week) so I can start test riding the Hub.

Mark
 
OK first test ride report, no hard data yet but some impressions

72 volts 150 amps peak (28 degrees F) the motor's pull is unreal. If you hit it hard from a stop she gives out a growl till she gets to 5 MPH then smooth as silk. She truly gives you that pushed back in the seat feel, better than my 2 motor setup I had prior.

Top speed is a little slow 43 MPH may be a little faster as I think my speedo is slow will break out the GPS for my next run. But the torque meets my expectations.

hard data coming

0 to 30 times
current VS speed
Motor temp after 30 min run time
and more
Just need it to get over 30 degrees so I'm not dodging ice patches

Mark
 
Excelent!

Add to it weight of Bike:

Amp/watt draw at speeds from 20 to 45 MPH in say 5 MPH increments:
 
First real test data no simulation hereView attachment 3Speed Max.jpg

Data was taken with a CA and a TTL to RS232 converter I need to repeat the test because I had averaging on 5 so even though I was taking data at the 5HZ rate in looks slower and quantized

Happy holidays

Mark
 

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Interesting project! I have two questions. Do you have a set of curves ffrom the motor manufacturer? Also, Is there any possibility to use this with side-loading? In other words, one arm and an axle through? Oh, and what is the diameter of your proto wheel axle-center to trread/pavement dimension?
For those that had not heard, the Aptera is going with front wheel drive now...
Jeff K.
 
jeffkay said:
Interesting project! I have two questions. Do you have a set of curves ffrom the motor manufacturer? Also, Is there any possibility to use this with side-loading? In other words, one arm and an axle through? Oh, and what is the diameter of your proto wheel axle-center to trread/pavement dimension?
For those that had not heard, the Aptera is going with front wheel drive now...
Jeff K.

1) I'm doing all the electrical and load testing for this motor. I can produce any curves needed. This includes Dyno curves contact me with a PM for specific needs.

2) A single sided axle has been done by the manufacturer. Review of you app is needed to determine feasibility.

3) My wheel is based on a 18 inch motorcycle rim and a 3 inch tire so from my measurements of the unloaded wheel the radius, axle center to ground is 12.5 inches

Let me know application in a PM so we can talk details

Mark
 
Just some more test data, with averaging set to 1

System voltage is 88 volts hot off the charger
I add 2 thundersky cell (60AH) in series with my 72 volt pack to get 88 volts. This is the limit of my controller (90 volts)

So it seems with my setup my 0 to 30 times are just under 5 seconds
Top speed is 46 MPH
These aren't limitations of the motor but limitations of my battery system and controller.
One other thing; I scared to just bang the throttle full on as I'm worried about breaking the axle due to twisting forces. A bicycle axle doesn't belong on this motor. Since its the only one of its kind, it would be a disaster to break this motor.

Motor temp to date barely warm maybe 5 degrees over ambient, but I have not done a long ride yet, that's next.


Mark
 

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OK got in a long ride today in 44 degrees F 6.6C air temp. The traffic was terrible as can be seen by how much regen I did.

Stats
24.5 miles 38.6 KM
Max speed 45.6
Average speed 23.8
28 A/h used
86.4 Wh/Mile
2212 Watt-Hr used
5.2% regen

After I finished the ride I placed the bike in my heated garage (no air currents on the hub) and waited 10 minutes for the stator heat to heat the rotor

Max temp only 44C

My battery system cannot supply enough power to get the most out of this motor-- A good problem

Feel free to ask questions
Also if anyone with a Motorcycle license is interested in the motor; I want to invite you to come to Long Island New York and test ride the bike. Email me first!!

Happy New Year

Mark

PS: I have the go ahead based on this testing to proceed with the hollow axle design so within 4 to 6 weeks it should be in my hands.
 
I want to come test ride it, but I'm waiting till the weather warms up A LOT! :lol:
 
Question

I am buying rear swingarms for different bike so I can be sure the Hub motor I'm working on really fits (makes sense) so far I purchased. (ebay can be great sometimes)

1) ninja 250
2) Honda Rebel

If interested could you please extend my list of rear swingarms to buy

Mark
 
I think any of the small bikes would be good. Suzuki GS 650 is a real popular bike, so there are going to be a lot of them around. I think a lot of the dirtbikes would be good since they have light frames and need as much room as possible for batteries, and 45mph for one of them is awesome fast. Maybe something like a Suzuki DRZ350, since it can come in a supermoto version with all the lights for the street.
 
I might be interested in this motor for my DR125 conversion, since I'm quite disappointed in the performance of the motor I have in there now. It might have similar swingarm spacing to the drz350 that Jay64 mentioned. I'm also interested in converting my VF500 interceptor, but I'd want more than 46 mph.
Great work on this, I'd been wondering why nobody has developed a larger diameter hub motor for motorcycles. Keep us posted!
 
Hey Markcycle,

Your new motor desing is amazing!

When do you thing the new clyte X6 hub motor should be officially released? (the 602)

Doc
 
I'm pretty sure the DRZ125 and 350 have different size swingarms (but I'll check.) But I do know a few people with the 125s that are interested in converting the 125s. I'll also check to see what the difference in swing arm size is between the DRZ 125 and the Honda XR100 (a very popular bike.)
Btw, what is the torque like on these motors, or what is possible given enough amps? Honestly I don't remember all the specs from the start of this thread, it is a thought that just popped into my head. I will go back and check, if you already stated it, nevermind. If not, could you please post?
 
Ok, I just saw that you had mentioned earlier that it had "push you back in the seat" power. Sounds good to me. What dimensions do you need from the swingarms? I've got quite a few bikes/swingarms around here I could measure up for you to save you some r&d costs. I've got access to XR100, XR200, DRZ125, TS185, '88 CBR600, '02 GSXR 600, '06 GSXR600. I also could make some phone calls and get some dimensions for RMZ450, DRZ400, and some various other ones. What is the volt limit for this motor? What do you think the top speed could be with more volts? I saw in a really early post something about 60mph. Do you think this is still abtainable with higher volts? I really like the black finish, but some people really like the bling factor. Are there any plans for having different colored hubs in the future? It's not like you have to hide it like in a bicycle in some places. If it is aluminum, then you could have it anodized different colors.
Also, have an option to go with some light weight/performance rims such as excel.
http://www.rkexcelamerica.com/mx_excel_rims.html
 
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