Motorcycle class Hub Motor

[GGoodrum]

Looks great, Mark. I can't wait to see how it performs. Like many here, I too drool over all the motorcycle conversion you all are doing, but have not been able to get into one myself yet, mainly because I don't have the the skills, or the equipment, for making the custom heavy-duty mounts required to install an Agni, or MARS motor in place of the ICE. This new hub motor of yours make this a whole different problem, one that is a ton more managable, I think. Anyway, I can't wait to see how well it performs, and close it comes to some of the demonstrated setups that use a mid-mounted motor.

I know it is probably in this thread somewhere, but can you repeat the basic info about this motor? What is the approximate kV? Or, what kind of voltage is required, for a top speed of say 70 mph? Will it go that fast? What do you think the practical current limit is? I know for an x5 it is around 100A, or so, and that may be pushing it. will this do 150A maybe? What is the pack configuration on your test bike again? Do you have a rough idea what you will charge for these yet?

Anyway, exciting stuff!

-- Gary

 

[markcycle]

Looks great, Mark. I can't wait to see how it performs. Like many here, I too drool over all the motorcycle conversion you all are doing, but have not been able to get into one myself yet, mainly because I don't have the the skills, or the equipment, for making the custom heavy-duty mounts required to install an Agni, or MARS motor in place of the ICE. This new hub motor of yours make this a whole different problem, one that is a ton more managable, I think. Anyway, I can't wait to see how well it performs, and close it comes to some of the demonstrated setups that use a mid-mounted motor.

I know it is probably in this thread somewhere, but can you repeat the basic info about this motor? What is the approximate kV? Or, what kind of voltage is required, for a top speed of say 70 mph? Will it go that fast? What do you think the practical current limit is? I know for an x5 it is around 100A, or so, and that may be pushing it. will this do 150A maybe? What is the pack configuration on your test bike again? Do you have a rough idea what you will charge for these yet?

Anyway, exciting stuff!

-- Gary

1) the KV is about the same as a 5304
2) For 70MPH I'm hoping a 96 volt pack will do of course it depends on your tire size I'm using a 18 inch rim and a 100/90 tire
3)Current limit is 200 amps peak and 100 amps continuous 10KW
4) My new test bike is a 32 cell LIFEP04 40AH thundersky system
5) Yes I do and will announce it hopefully next week.

Mark

PS: The wheel is powered and spins on my Lifan test bike, video and pictures to follow
First Test ride tomorrow

 

[Doctorbass]

First Test ride tomorrow

 

[GGoodrum]

First Test ride tomorrow

ditto. :wink:

Thanks for the info. Looking forward to hearing your report.

-- Gary

 

[thomas]

19kw peak impressive.
Do you have any plans for doing one for the front wheel also?

 

[markcycle]

19kw peak impressive.
Do you have any plans for doing one for the front wheel also?

If you feel safe putting that much power on the front wheel, then there is no reason it will not work on the front wheel. You would tie the torque arm to the disk caliper mounting bracket on the fork.

I personally would not feel safe putting that much power on a front fork, but that's just me.

The motor can adapt to many configurations as long as you have the space (7.5 inches or more) can use a solid motorcycle axle and can tie the torque arm to something, to prevent the axle from spinning.

Mark

 

[Lenk42602]

This is what I have been waiting for.




Concept and design phase of my next project has officially begun.

Thanks Mark

len

 

[markcycle]

Well as promised the MHM602 got its first test run

First 60 MPH is no problem I was doing 60 up a slight incline and feathering the throttle so as not to go faster
Acceleration felt brisk hard number to come

The motor ran great except the phase wires got to hot as usual the wires were undersized this will not happen again. I designed the slot for the wires so that number 8 wire could be used but #12 was used even through I asked for # 10 or smaller gauge. A small problem in the big picture.

For this test run I used only regen braking for the rear wheel, it felt great and a rear brake isn't really needed but I will mount one later this week

Now for the eye candy

 

[gogo]

Now that's a torque arm, baby!

 

[Doctorbass]

Hey Mark, Your bike look nice and clean!

The motor look so small compared to teh rest.. even though it is a 602 BEAST !

Have you some numbers for us (VOLT, CURRENT, WH/km?

and the most important... a video!!

there is a crowd here waiting for your vid Mark !!

x2 +

+

Thanks for sharing these pics!

Doc

 

[GGoodrum]

Oh my, I seem to have wet myself a little...

Very clean. Very clean, indeed. Can't wait for the video.

Can you do some more shots of the batteries, and where the controller is mounted?

-- Gary

 

[Doctorbass]

Can you do some more shots of the batteries, and where the controller is mounted?

-- Gary

Hey Gary.. You will find all that on the 2 previous pages :wink: unless that would not be what you search for..

Doc

 

[GGoodrum]

Can you do some more shots of the batteries, and where the controller is mounted?

-- Gary

Hey Gary.. You will find all that on the 2 previous pages :wink: unless that would not be what you search for..

Doc

Yep, page 9... Thanks!

 

[Jay64]

I got a bunch of chassis sitting over here waiting for these.

60mph! Cool, I was thinking that it was going to max out at 45mph. That was great to hear that you got it up to 60 so far.

 

[oatnet]

Now for the eye candy

Drool...

I see lots of possibilities for what you have done here... Apologies if someone else has brought it up, but could this be built with a single-side-axle? I have had a 4wd hub motor/tube chassis project in the back of my mind for a few years, a lightweight electric WRX, but x5s just weren't up to the task. It wouldn't be hard to mount both sides of the axles in the rear, but I haven't been able to envision an elegant way to do it for the front wheels, other than mounting all four wheels rigid and using 'tank' steering.

Anyhow, A 160ah shared pack, 4 of these hub motors, quad controllers, an inertial sensor, four speed sensors, a steering angle sensor, and a microcontroller to balance throttle to all 4 wheels based on those inputs... 4wd with out the mass of differentials, tranny, motor, etc. it would be a 4wd SCREAMER, a rocket off the line and with the right control scheme, stick to turns like glue.

I've been dreaming of larger brushless hub motors for years - not the fantasy ones automakers are throwing about, but practical ones we can play with - I think you are pushing the envelope and making something revolutionary here. Thanks Mark!

-JD

 

[Lenk42602]

Mark,

Any guesses on your GVW with hub motor and batts?

Len

 

[markcycle]

Mark,

Any guesses on your GVW with hub motor and batts?

Len

350 to 375 pounds
Soon as I can I'll get her weighted there is a weight station with a weight master a few miles from my house. I used them to weigh my custom bike, required when registering a custom bike.
Mark

 

[markcycle]

Now for the eye candy

Drool...

I see lots of possibilities for what you have done here... Apologies if someone else has brought it up, but could this be built with a single-side-axle? I have had a 4wd hub motor/tube chassis project in the back of my mind for a few years, a lightweight electric WRX, but x5s just weren't up to the task. It wouldn't be hard to mount both sides of the axles in the rear, but I haven't been able to envision an elegant way to do it for the front wheels, other than mounting all four wheels rigid and using 'tank' steering.

Anyhow, A 160ah shared pack, 4 of these hub motors, quad controllers, an inertial sensor, four speed sensors, a steering angle sensor, and a microcontroller to balance throttle to all 4 wheels based on those inputs... 4wd with out the mass of differentials, tranny, motor, etc. it would be a 4wd SCREAMER, a rocket off the line and with the right control scheme, stick to turns like glue.

I've been dreaming of larger brushless hub motors for years - not the fantasy ones automakers are throwing about, but practical ones we can play with - I think you are pushing the envelope and making something revolutionary here. Thanks Mark!

-JD

Sure a single sided axle is possible if the demand was there. I think the motor as is could be used for single sided applications with little modification

Wow that's a lot of stuff but if cost isn't a problem then it would be a great project, one I would fully help with engineering support in any way I could.

What would really be cool is to do it with a water cooled version of the motor and get 30 to 40 KW at each wheel. Give PDM (I think that's the company making the hub motors for the Mini copper) a run for the money.
Monster hub motor for the Masses

Mark

 

[Jay64]

Can a water cooled version be made? Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! I was just going to take off the radiator for one of my up coming projects and was planning on selling it, but if it is possible to do a water cooled motor, then I will hold onto it and go buy one of those electric race water pumps.

 

[johnhead@frontiernet.net]

Great job Mark,
I am still considering this for use on the front wheel of my three wheeled leaning trike.
Waiting for price, and performance data.
Your are going to shock a lot of people.
Motoring in to a local "establishment" with a motorcycle with no chain, or driveshaft!
Very Cool indeed.
Keep up the great development work!
regards
John Head

 

[markcycle]

Can a water cooled version be made? Now THAT'S what I'm talking about! I was just going to take off the radiator for one of my up coming projects and was planning on selling it, but if it is possible to do a water cooled motor, then I will hold onto it and go buy one of those electric race water pumps.

I would hold onto the radiator but don't buy the pump just yet.
On my first semi production run I would put one motor aside and convert it to water cooling.

Starting to think, next year we could have a real race bike using this motor. The ability to put a huge amount of batteries in the engine bay combined with a water cooled motor may make for a really fast race bike.

Mark

 

[thomas]

Just curious, how do you connect water hoses to the motor?

How much power do you reckon a stadard motorcycle fork could handle? Really interested in this motor for my next project(whenever I can affort another)
but looking for a little more than 19kw.
If you can come up with a watercooled version that can do 30kW+ could do a serious supermoto to match the 450cc size bikes

 

[markcycle]

Just curious, how do you connect water hoses to the motor?

How much power do you reckon a stadard motorcycle fork could handle? Really interested in this motor for my next project(whenever I can affort another)
but looking for a little more than 19kw.
If you can come up with a watercooled version that can do 30kW+ could do a serious supermoto to match the 450cc size bikes

Thomas, I have no clue how much force a motorcycle fork could handle. First off a fork isn't designed to handle torque in the drive direction, It may be fine as the braking force on a front fork it is huge but i have no way of knowing if the design of a fork can handle a symmetrical force in the opposite direction to braking. Plus there isn't much weight over the front wheel, so traction will also be a problem

Want you want to do will take R&D (Research and Development) and that cost money and you'll have to accept that in the end it may not work (the nature of R&D). I can provide the motor the rest will up to you and your engineering skills, if you buy the 602 motor I'll always be available for consultation but can't guarantee success.
Not a cheap project that's for sure

Mark

 

[Jay64]

I think it was mentioned earlier, but another potential problem with putting the motor in the front wheel is the brake. I would think for a supermoto bike you would want it in the rear and use massive amounts of regen braking to get the back end slide while still having factory brakes up front for the control. But also, I'm not sure if there has been a verdict on how well this motor will handle landing big jumps since it won't have the cushioning of the suspension. But if you just use it on a cart type road course track without the jumps, then it will be good.

 

[thomas]

Yeah I can see how having that much weiht on the wrong side of the wheel could affect the handling. I have seen some prototype bikes with a hydraulic motor in the front wheel. Might be a better way of getting 2wd drive on a normal motorcycle.
So many crazy ideas