Motorcycle class Hub Motor

[JohnT818]

Anyone have any idea how one would go about attaching a "solid" rim to the hub? Im just not sure how this would do with a trike application as far as the side loads.

I'm pretty sure todayican was talking about a reverse trike (2 front, 1 rear). At least, that's what he's built in the past. I'm interested in this, too. I've been designing a reverse trike for my personal use with a tube frame and swingarm rear. How would a single rear wheel with spokes hold up to lateral acceleration? Can stronger spokes be used or more of them?

Your "center mounted twin hub motor design" sounds interesting. I've been thinking about switching to a 4-wheeler. I'll have to keep an eye on this.

 

[Silicate]

Mark, I've caught up reading this entire thread finally and I'm very interested in using one of your hub motors on my 1986 Yamaha FZR250 sport bike. I have a lot of work to do on it before I'm at the point to make the purchase though. This is a project bike that's going to turn out way different than the guy I bought it from would have imagined. }

While searching the internet to locate a suitably powerful hub motor, not only did I discover yours, but also a higher powered one. Here's the link to the website of an apparently American company:

http://www.alibaba.com/member/us100593232.html

I'm wondering if you are aware of it and if so what do you think of the 15kW version? It appears that these are designed as hub motors for autos and could be applicable to the project you mentioned recently.

"For a full size motorcycle trike I am working on a center mounted twin hub motor design. You would retain the standard wheels of the trike and use the hub motors as a differential mounted inboard as a car's differential is mounted, with shafts to the wheels.'

Obviously, I'm in no way attempting to steal your thunder here, but a 15kW hub motor would certainly open up more higher powered motorcycles like cruisers to electric conversion if the dimensions would allow.

I'm very interested in what you think of this. Thanks!

 

[markcycle]

Mark, I've caught up reading this entire thread finally and I'm very interested in using one of your hub motors on my 1986 Yamaha FZR250 sport bike. I have a lot of work to do on it before I'm at the point to make the purchase though. This is a project bike that's going to turn out way different than the guy I bought it from would have imagined. }

While searching the internet to locate a suitably powerful hub motor, not only did I discover yours, but also a higher powered one. Here's the link to the website of an apparently American company:

http://www.alibaba.com/member/us100593232.html

I'm wondering if you are aware of it and if so what do you think of the 15kW version? It appears that these are designed as hub motors for autos and could be applicable to the project you mentioned recently.

"For a full size motorcycle trike I am working on a center mounted twin hub motor design. You would retain the standard wheels of the trike and use the hub motors as a differential mounted inboard as a car's differential is mounted, with shafts to the wheels.'

Obviously, I'm in no way attempting to steal your thunder here, but a 15kW hub motor would certainly open up more higher powered motorcycles like cruisers to electric conversion if the dimensions would allow.

I'm very interested in what you think of this. Thanks!

Not going t be negative but anyone can write a spec, I did know of the company
Buy one and try it, Let me know
EnerTrac's motors are conservatively rated for a real 10KW continuous 30KW peak
EnerTrac's products are designed in the USA, then imported and engineered to fit the customers vehicle (value added). Tested here and the warranty is honored here.

I could develop a higher power motor and if I did it won't be a catalog item. The hollow axle design I developed was to address a specific design need, and that was to make a hub motor wheel that can directly replace a motorcycle wheel using the axle that came from the donor bike. Scooter motors with solid axles are a commodity.

I know in a car application a wheel motor will never be accepted and the work to adapt a wheel motor to a car would be huge. Dealing with integrating a wheel motor to the suspension would be near impossible for conversions. This is why I'm working on the center mounted differential design.

Mark

 

[SamM]

Mark,
Can your hub motor be used if the stock chain final drive happens to be located on the right of the motorcycle? Would it just be wired differently (backwards) to make it run the opposite direction? This would be in the parallel hybrid configuration that we talked about. I'm starting to see the benefit of this, that you mentioned. I have a large trellis framed motorcycle (KTM 950) and a smaller 456cc diesel engine that would make a great starting point. A small battery pack could fit inside the upper trellis portion of the bike.

Thanks!

SamM

 

[markcycle]

Mark,
Can your hub motor be used if the stock chain final drive happens to be located on the right of the motorcycle? Would it just be wired differently (backwards) to make it run the opposite direction? This would be in the parallel hybrid configuration that we talked about. I'm starting to see the benefit of this, that you mentioned. I have a large trellis framed motorcycle (KTM 950) and a smaller 456cc diesel engine that would make a great starting point. A small battery pack could fit inside the upper trellis portion of the bike.

Thanks!

SamM

Right or left side for the chain is no problem. This doesn't necessarily mean the wheel has to turn the reverse direction, though there is no problem running the motor in the reverse direction (so to speak) and on some builds this is already happening to better center the wheel in the swingarm.

Mark

 

[todayican2]

Ok, I had a bit of cool news this weekend, I decided after driving my one seater trike (250cc ice) that I really can "bond" with a vehicle with only one seat. (Its over at tshtrikes.com )
So my question remains, if I keep the weight to under 700lb (gross) and have good aero (excellent aero actually) will the spoked wheels be blae to handle the side loads (same for the bearings)?

I will be doing it same as all my others, as a reverse trike with the single rear wheel being driven.

and If the spokes are a non starter, does anyone have any idea how one would mate a "rim" to the motor?

Thanks

 

[Ewannabe]

So does anyone have any good suggestions for a lightweight donor bike? Something cheap, not too old, and lightweight would be ideal. Is it possible to build a bike in the 250 to 300lb range? Cost is not a huge concern, so I would obviously be going for some kind of Lithium batteries. I am looking for something in the 50 to 80 mile range with top speed of around 60mph. I was thinking that one of the small dual sport bikes might be a good starting point. Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Mark

 

[todayican2]

Ewannabe, just a thought, but if you want to do something special, one could design something from scratch and weld in an existing head tube etc from an existing bike. I liked this one because of its lowness and the ability to do something with the aero later.

http://evalbum.com/568

Something I read in a post by Mark a while back made me really think about the importance of Aero. It was something like (quoting from memory) when he was initially testing the top speed of the motor on his bike

"Top speed: 65, Top speed in a "tuck" 75"

 

[ryan_lirui]

Hi Mark,
I've been following your work with this motor pretty closely and have read your thread from start to end.

I have a friend who wants to do a proper electronic dirt bike, but I recall you saying that this motor might not be the right one for this application. Is there a model you have now in stock that might suit this application? If there isn't anything available, could you suggest a possible alternative that might suit his needs? Would it be a better idea to choose a motor that drives a chain instead of a hub motor since the bike that is off-roading might be more sensitive to unsprung weight?

In addition to this, what would you suggest for something like a scooter, or other urban transport type of vehicle? I would like to put something together with your motor but I don't think you'd be able to string together enough batteries that would fit within a scooter frame to get the proper combination needed. Nor do i believe you'd get the kind of behavior you'd want from this motor that one would want for a scooter. I would like to build a peppy bike/scooter with lots of torque and a top speed of around 70-80km/h (~ 45mph) (optimistically).

 

[markcycle]

Hi Mark,
I've been following your work with this motor pretty closely and have read your thread from start to end.

I have a friend who wants to do a proper electronic dirt bike, but I recall you saying that this motor might not be the right one for this application. Is there a model you have now in stock that might suit this application? If there isn't anything available, could you suggest a possible alternative that might suit his needs? Would it be a better idea to choose a motor that drives a chain instead of a hub motor since the bike that is off-roading might be more sensitive to unsprung weight?

In addition to this, what would you suggest for something like a scooter, or other urban transport type of vehicle? I would like to put something together with your motor but I don't think you'd be able to string together enough batteries that would fit within a scooter frame to get the proper combination needed. Nor do i believe you'd get the kind of behavior you'd want from this motor that one would want for a scooter. I would like to build a peppy bike/scooter with lots of torque and a top speed of around 70-80km/h (~ 45mph) (optimistically).

Hi
For a dirt bike it depends on the type of riding you do, fire road, and trails will be OK but if you want to get big air then a chain drive system will be better. The bearing system can hold up to almost any abuse so that's not a worry. You just need to use a tall softer tire to help compensate for the unspurng weight.

For scooters a 13 inch wheel with a 32 cell pack will go 70/80 Kph and accelerate like crazy.

Mark

 

[Jay64]

So does anyone have any good suggestions for a lightweight donor bike? Something cheap, not too old, and lightweight would be ideal. Is it possible to build a bike in the 250 to 300lb range? Cost is not a huge concern, so I would obviously be going for some kind of Lithium batteries. I am looking for something in the 50 to 80 mile range with top speed of around 60mph. I was thinking that one of the small dual sport bikes might be a good starting point. Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Mark

I think the Lifan bike that Mark chose as his donor bike is a really good, cheap, light bike. Granted, the stock suspension was a little lacking for trying to hold top speed through race track corners, but a some of that won't come into play in regular street riding. But then again, a quick upgrade to the suspension that cost about $100 for the front end, made a huge difference. I recently saw an ad for some of those around here for $1400 brand new. The problem with a small dual sport bike is that the frame is a lot smaller so you have a limited amount of space for batteries. It might be hard to stuff in enough batteries to get 60mph AND 80 mile range. However, if you are going to go with a small dual sport, then in my opinion, you HAVE to go with this hub motor. I have a few dirt bikes that I want to convert, and I feel that the only way that I can get the performance that I want is to not have to have the limited frame space taken up by a motor.

As far as building a chassis from scratch, I think that is kinda out of the scope for a lot of the people that are drawn to this motor. Granted this motor can be used on all sorts of projects, I think one of the biggest draws, especially for newbies, is that it completely simplifies the build process.

 

[todayican2]

Two things I just thought of:

1) I am building a hybrid and the 200cc motor that comes in these inecpensive lifans would be just about right for the trike, so I would offer say 400 or 500 for the "ICE bits" should someone want to buy one new and recoup some of the money

2) I kind of have an itch to build a semi recumbant road bike (2 wheeler) and have a full time fab guy and shop. should someone want one (think sitting back on a scooter except about 8" lower) I would make them a hell of a deal on the build because I want to be one of the guys to take it on the test drive

With Marks motor, a bike like this could carry 100ah of lithium way low, no sweat. and likely beat the watt hour consumption of just about any other bike (aero rules!) lol

 

[Jay64]

How about an Akira bike frame with Mark's motor? I believe the original specs were for an electric motorcycle. Doing an electric version would probably be one of the most accurate builds done yet.

 

[oatnet]

How about an Akira bike frame with Mark's motor? I believe the original specs were for an electric motorcycle. Doing an electric version would probably be one of the most accurate builds done yet.

That would be sweet! Know where I can get one of those frames?

I have actually been daydreaming along those lines for marks motor, something that you could sit low in. I saw something on TV a few years back, some celebrity was prototyping ICE bikes with a similar seating position, wish I could remember more about it.

-JD

 

[todayican2]

You could always have that crazy Todayican build one for you....

 

[Jay64]

Todayican, you are who I was talking to. 8) I've seen quite a lot of Akira replica bikes, but they were all ICE based. If you can make the semi recumbent frame, I got a guy that can do all kinds of bodywork, I got a bunch of headway cells, and we can get the motor from Mark.

 

[todayican2]

Your on Jay What do we do, I build the "roller" your buddy builds a body, and Mark puts in the motor. all draw straws for who gets the bike? sell it and split money?

Here is an idea though, more styling then anything is a slicker look as opposed to the "trasformer robot" look to the Akira.

Im going to whip up a drawing (old school, pencil and paper, dont know cad )

 

[markcycle]

Your on Jay What do we do, I build the "roller" your buddy builds a body, and Mark puts in the motor. all draw straws for who gets the bike? sell it and split money?

Here is an idea though, more styling then anything is a slicker look as opposed to the "trasformer robot" look to the Akira.

Im going to whip up a drawing (old school, pencil and paper, dont know cad )

I'm In
Not only the motor; I'll do the electrical side of things.
I like the sell it and split the money idea, though how to make it street legal; Vin and all that may put the project over our heads

Mark

 

[todayican2]

The method Ive used is to use at least one major component (like the forks in this case) from a bike for which we have the title (no problem to get a 150cc scooter title (my suggestion for the front suspension)

My belief is that with a Chinese sounding name 99% of officers have no earthly idea its not a production machine

also, the place I see cutting the upper scooter frame to adapt the front forks has the vin plate so it would have the original vin plate in its original location.

 

[johnhead@frontiernet.net]

Awww... Mark, I was going to offer you halves on my tilting three wheeler design. That way you get to sell TWO of your motor for each trike? I guess I'll just have to take all of the royalties and retire much sooner than I had planned :wink:
I hope to be working on the linkage between the two rear wheels tomorrow. Hopefully within the next month I'll have a functional chassis (without batteries or bms), ready to push down a big hill and see how it feels!
:lol:
John Head

 

[todayican2]

That share may be worth a bit more now...

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009...unding-doe.php

Looks like congress likes electric trikes now too :-D

 

[markcycle]

Awww... Mark, I was going to offer you halves on my tilting three wheeler design. That way you get to sell TWO of your motor for each trike? I guess I'll just have to take all of the royalties and retire much sooner than I had planned :wink:
I hope to be working on the linkage between the two rear wheels tomorrow. Hopefully within the next month I'll have a functional chassis (without batteries or bms), ready to push down a big hill and see how it feels!
:lol:
John Head

There's enough of me to go around for everybody.

Mark

 

[markcycle]

Some time ago I showed the caliper integrated into the torque arm Then I backed away from the idea
Now I happy to show the concept implemented

Oh yea we have inventory in our new shop

Mark

 

[todayican2]

Motorcycle - Reinvented.
Nice.

 

[johnhead@frontiernet.net]

Looking Good Mark!