Multi-protocol T8 display works as a stand in for at least one Yolin model (9L-90T) with Lishui controller

[MylarStar]

I bought this thing as a potential backup because I didn’t really like the way when I got Yolin displays for projects they wouldn’t even sell me them without preprogramming them.

It’s searchable as a T8 under a number of brands, it seems like the original one was branded Suringmax.

T8 LCD Display Colorful Screen 24V 36V 48V 52V 60V 72V Waterproof Electric Bike LCD Display Panel

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOZGGuj

Anyway, it showed up before the Yolin ones so I plugged it in and got into the advanced settings and switched it to protocol 5s and it worked no problem. I even have lights which some reviewers said was the one thing that didn’t work.

I only tested it briefly because I am uncertain of some of the settings like the limits on current and wattage and whether I should be setting them to the nominal ratings for my motor and controller, 750w and 25 amp respectively or to the peak values like my BMS which is 40 amps and the theoretical 1200-1500 of the motor. I won’t even have all the parts to ride this thing for a while so I’m not going to assume anything before some advice.

These are the settings that can be changed. I don’t know what a few of the advanced ones even mean so if anyone wants to spell out as much as possible for me that would be great.

This is a printout showing the ranges and defaults. I set my my volts, amps, and left the wattage at 1000 but I only spun the wheel a little without any load to see if the throttle was working and decided to wait until get some advice or get the Yolins and maybe I can get into the settings in those and copy them. Oh I got notified they are finally out of customs just now. Things are really backed up even though parcels under $800 still aren’t being tariffed.

EDIT- now that I look at this again there are few things missing. I’ll take pictures of the actual displays menu tomorrow.
EDIT- here’s the whole manual. Lots of stuff was cropped off or omitted from what I was sent.

 

[DPC18RI]

I got a T8 yesterday from Ali (different vendor), i selected that 5S protocol on a working bike with Lishui controller but no luck (original working display is C300S). No matter which protocol i select on the T8, i always get communication error. The same with another Lishui controller.

 

[stancecoke]

I only tested it briefly

You have to be aware, that the Lishui controllers have customer specific firmware for each OEM. In european prebuild bikes, most settings in the display will be ignored to avoid tuning.
Of course you can get Lishui controllers that are fully configurable by the display, but they are sold by DIY-specialists. In Germany EBS or Groetech for example. If you buy one on Ebay or AliExpress, you will never know the firmware version you will get....

In the German forum, one user reported, that the T8 display has a weak contrast, so you can hardly read it in sunlight.

regards
stancecoke

 

[E-HP]

This display looks interesting. It’s listed on Amazon under a couple of sellers, but no reviews. One rating of two stars on one listing. Seems to be a new model. There’s only one ES thread where the member is using it successfully, but there’s not much info on the rest of his setup in that thread, and the thread is fairly recent (a few months). It would be interesting to see if it can live up to its claims to work across different controller manufacturers.

 

[MylarStar]

You have to be aware, that the Lishui controllers have customer specific firmware for each OEM. In european prebuild bikes, most settings in the display will be ignored to avoid tuning.
Of course you can get Lishui controllers that are fully configurable by the display, but they are sold by DIY-specialists. In Germany EBS or Groetech for example. If you buy one on Ebay or AliExpress, you will never know the firmware version you will get....

In the German forum, one user reported, that the T8 display has a weak contrast, so you can hardly read it in sunlight.

regards
stancecoke

This is sort of an unusual situation where I bought the frame, motor, and controller of a bike factory direct and then bought the same display they use.

That’s then I found out you can’t just buy those displays without them setting it all up for you, which would have all been done already on a complete bike; so I did in fact buy their factory set up Yolin display but I wanted to have a simpler backup (if possible) in case mine broke to avoid waiting two weeks for a replacement. Or opt not to replace it at all.

People seem to think most color displays are lousy in direct sunlight, this one doesn’t look any different than any other ones I’ve seen, I’m just glad it works as a substitute after what a big production the bike manufacturer makes out of putting a needlessly elaborate display on a bike that’s only got a hub motor with cadence sensor PAS. I would be happy with one of those ultra mini units that’s black and white and the whole thing is 1x2” right next to the brake lever.

 

[MylarStar]

I got a T8 yesterday from Ali (different vendor), i selected that 5S protocol on a working bike with Lishui controller but no luck (original working display is C300S). No matter which protocol i select on the T8, i always get communication error. The same with another Lishui controller.

I just found the complete manual that shows a lot of stuff that was cropped off the printout I got in the box with mine. I don’t know enough about this yet to suggest anything but the unabridged manual at least shows a description to the right of each parameter and value range that cleared a few things up for me; a few of which are just confusing because of their strange wording of things I knew in different terms.

One thing that emerged in the course of events dealing with the bike manufacturer, is that although the sales information for the bike shows just about every Yolin display being applicable- when the guy in China was setting mine up (on the same bike as mine) it turned out that the only applicable display is one that the T8 looks like a knockoff of. So perhaps I’ll edit my post title to be less optimistic and not imply broad compatibility.

 

[stancecoke]

I would be happy with one of those ultra mini units that’s black and white and the whole thing is 1x2” right next to the brake lever.

Then the Key-Display KD831 or KD58C would meet your requirements

 

[MylarStar]

This display looks interesting. It’s listed on Amazon under a couple of sellers, but no reviews. One rating of two stars on one listing. Seems to be a new model. There’s only one ES thread where the member is using it successfully, but there’s not much info on the rest of his setup in that thread, and the thread is fairly recent (a few months). It would be interesting to see if it can live up to its claims to work across different controller manufacturers.

I read all the same stuff and decided to take a chance on it based on what little they had to say about it working with Protocol 5, which I had narrowed it down to for my controller. The thing works fine for me, I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t setting any power thresholds way too high or anything; but now that I got the full manual that shows a lot of stuff that was cropped off or omitted from what was in the box I have been able to get it down to two things.

I think Suringmax is the original brand that made this display, their website makes it sound like they came up with the innovation. It could be BS and like many Chinese manufacturer sites it’s not really intended for the end user but it seems legit.

 

[E-HP]

I read all the same stuff and decided to take a chance on it based on what little they had to say about it working with Protocol 5, which I had narrowed it down to for my controller. The thing works fine for me, I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t setting any power thresholds way too high or anything; but now that I got the full manual that shows a lot of stuff that was cropped off or omitted from what was in the box I have been able to get it down to two things.

I think Suringmax is the original brand that made this display, their website makes it sound like they came up with the innovation. It could be BS and like many Chinese manufacturer sites it’s not really intended for the end user but it seems legit.

Do you have the link to the manual? I'd like to add it to my FAQ and watch for others posts where the display is successfully used with different controllers. Thanks ahead of time. This is the first display I've seen that appears to offer this flexibility.

 

[MylarStar]

Then the Key-Display KD831 or KD58C would meet your requirements

They are not Protocol 5 though, that’s the fundamental problem with the whole thing, at least as long as I’m using the Lishui controller. It’s a Yolin display or it’s this- at least from what I’ve been able to gather, and at my present level of comprehension of these things.

And it’s not just any Yolin display the way I had been lead to believe, they do have several compact units. I was dealing with a tech in China in real time who was trying to set one up on the same bike as mine and it turned out he had to use the same one they had specced for the bike. The T8 looks suspiciously like that very same Yolin controller except the Yolin doesn’t have the easy access to all the advanced settings.

These are the ones I was hoping to get some clarification on.

There is one that says current limit for which the default is 12 amps. My controller says 12 amps IR, so is that what I want?

Then there’s one specific to Protocol 5s that says wattage limit- but now that I have the descriptions of the parameters it makes it sound like it’s just a setting for the range that the display will show, so with my motor being 750w would it make sense to set that to 1500w as the highest round number it’s not likely to ever exceed?

 

[MylarStar]

Do you have the link to the manual? I'd like to add it to my FAQ and watch for others posts where the display is successfully used with different controllers. Thanks ahead of time. This is the first display I've seen that appears to offer this flexibility.

Oh yeah here it is. This is just a PDF of the manual, I’m going to keep looking for something that’s a little more of a walkthrough.

https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?attachments/1-pdf.574909/

 

[stancecoke]

They are not Protocol 5 though

Of course they are available with 5s protocol. I own both of them.
https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?threads/key-display-katalog-mit-neuen-design-s.87787

Kingmeter, Bigstone... they all offer displays with 5s protocol, that's just a matter of the displays firmware. Even the very cheap EN06 Display is available with the 5s protocol as option.
Maybe, the Kingmeter KM5s display is the "mother" of all following derivates. It allows to set individual values for each PAS level. That's the main advantage over BAFANG, Kunteg .... that are transmitting only the level, not the value for the level...

https://electricbike-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/c963.pdf

regards
stancecoke

 

[MylarStar]

Oh well I don’t know that much about this stuff yet, I scoured the internet for hours and tried chatGPT and that T8 is the only thing I could find that stated plainly it was protocol 5 capable, aside from the Yolin one that’s OEM for the bike which I now have and that has the ability to unlock the throttle completely (not that I care) and set each each PAS level separately. You can have 9 pas levels if you want to.

 

[MylarStar]

Then the Key-Display KD831 or KD58C would meet your requirements

I’m looking at the manuals for these and it doesn’t say anything about protocols. Do they just self select for whatever it is? This sounds iffy or maybe over my head at the moment.

 

[stancecoke]

Do they just self select for whatever it is?

No, many manufacturers offer the same display with different protocols, as the customer demands. The only way to check, is to use a USB-UART converter to listen to the bytestream that the display sends.
Many cheap China displays have a parameter P20 that let you choose between the No2 protocol and the 5S protocol, but they don't offer the full functionality of the original KM5S.

Different firmware at EN06 and S866 displays

Hi folks, at most EN06 display, you can choose with P20 parameter beetween protocol 2 and 5S protocol. But at the similar S866 display it is not possible. Only protocol 2. Does anyone know, if it is possible to flash a firmware, which allows to choose beetween different protocols, at the S866...

endless-sphere.com

regards
stancecoke

 

[MylarStar]

No, many manufacturers offer the same display with different protocols, as the customer demands. The only way to check, is to use a USB-UART converter to listen to the bytestream that the display sends.
Many cheap China displays have a parameter P20 that let you choose between the No2 protocol and the 5S protocol, but they don't offer the full functionality of the original KM5S.

Different firmware at EN06 and S866 displays

Hi folks, at most EN06 display, you can choose with P20 parameter beetween protocol 2 and 5S protocol. But at the similar S866 display it is not possible. Only protocol 2. Does anyone know, if it is possible to flash a firmware, which allows to choose beetween different protocols, at the S866...

endless-sphere.com

regards
stancecoke

I ended up going down a thread rabbit hole and reading a lot of your posts having to do with Lishui controllers and you obviously are at whole other level with this stuff, whereas I am just putting together a couple of bikes focused more on the physical components and overall functionality in that realm and having a little fun with the aesthetics.

I had no idea what a cam of worms I was getting into by deciding to go with the OEM specced motor and controller for this bike; in terms of the massive PITA it would be getting a display as an aftermarket customer buying all the parts separately to put a bike together without all the generic e bike junk.

The manufacturer’s catalog literature makes it look like any Yolin controller will plug right in so I didn’t give it a second thought until I was further along with gathering all the other stuff and waiting to see if my frames even made it into the country.

I was still buying all the components through the manufacturer’s site so here I am thinking they’ve got all of this stuff matched up and ready to go, plug and play. Not so much, as it turns out. More like not at all. I can’t believe what an ordeal this has turned into.

I’ll pause here for now before I give a whole account of what has transpired thus far if you even want to hear it.

 

[DPC18RI]

It is what stancecoke said, manufacturers likely programming variations on customers demand. Today i got two other displays this time from Yosepower, so they work with Lishui Yosepower controllers. I got the KD21C and the C500. On my Lishui controller, again no luck. Both displays give communication error lol. I have still another one coming, SW900 color display from Ali, should be possible to select 5S. it looks the same as the color display sold by Groetech for Lishui but i beginning to think i maybe should have ordered it from Groetech instead of Ali because at Groetech it mentions for Lishui. But on the other hand it looks more and more Lishui used by "Minerva bikes" has some special flavor programmed.

So i now have the T8, KD21C, C500 and a SW900 on the way. Maybe i can look for the EN06 and then i give up. The Lishui controller LSW768-96F sits in a cheap Minerva E-bike with Mxus XF07 FM. Nothing fancy and a C300S display. I just wanted a spare display in case something go's wrong with it. But o boy it looks like i can't even find one that will work with the "Minerva" Lishui LSW768-96F controller... If the original display eventually dies i guess i better swap for a Kunteng sinus controller and Kunteng display thinking i can probably use the existing wiring / cables.

 

[MylarStar]

It is what stancecoke said, manufacturers likely programming variations on customers demand. Today i got two other displays this time from Yosepower, so they work with Lishui Yosepower controllers. I got the KD21C and the C500. On my Lishui controller, again no luck. Both displays give communication error lol. I have still another one coming, SW900 color display from Ali, should be possible to select 5S. it looks the same as the color display sold by Groetech for Lishui but i beginning to think i maybe should have ordered it from Groetech instead of Ali because at Groetech it mentions for Lishui. But on the other hand it looks more and more Lishui used by "Minerva bikes" has some special flavor programmed.

So i now have the T8, KD21C, C500 and a SW900 on the way. Maybe i can look for the EN06 and then i give up. The Lishui controller LSW768-96F sits in a cheap Minerva E-bike with Mxus XF07 FM. Nothing fancy and a C300S display. I just wanted a spare display in case something go's wrong with it. But o boy it looks like i can't even find one that will work with the "Minerva" Lishui LSW768-96F controller... If the original display eventually dies i guess i better swap for a Kunteng sinus controller and Kunteng display thinking i can probably use the existing wiring / cables.

I would totally get this proprietary programming in a case where it was some high end mid-drive torque sensor set up that for whatever reasons had a need for a lot of subtle nuance and tuning, but this is just a hub motor/ PAS set up that’s not even registering cadence as anything more than a start/stop signal, except maybe to use magnet count as the basis for the power up sensitivity. More to come on that.

It’s ridiculous that they locked the display to stop people meddling with power settings when the thing will throttle up to 28mph and the display shows it drawing 27 amps with a 25 amp controller. I seem to have taken a chance on the right battery that’s a UPP 20ah thing with LG cells and a 40 amp BMS. So power isn’t the problem once it’s moving.

It’s that the PAS takes half a crank rotation to come on, which totally sucks for my particular usage of riding fussy trails that are kind of technical, momentum can be lost in a fraction of a second, and having to get a whole half a crank in at a critical moment is pretty much game over. I don’t have power cut offs on my brakes but even stopping pedaling for 1/2 a second is enough to have power cut out.

I have a proposed solution but I’m going make a new post for that to cast a wide net for opinions.

 

[amberwolf]

if you want you can use the cycle analyst from ebikes.ca to interpret your pas cadence signal into an actual throttle control so it's not just on/off, and you can change the response time and use a magnet ring with more magnets in it to decrease response time as well.

 

[lenger34]

I got a T8 yesterday from Ali (different vendor), i selected that 5S protocol on a working bike with Lishui controller but no luck (original working display is C300S). No matter which protocol i select on the T8, i always get communication error. The same with another Lishui controller.

Communication error can be caused by anything. It can be caused by protocol mismatch or, for example, by incorrect pinout of the PAS sensor. At least this is the case with my no-name APT controller. Despite the communication error the PAS itself can work, depends on the controller and the display. For example controller lishui LSW1330-5-11F with original display C600E and (possible) protocol 5S works with display ukc3 with (possible) protocol APT although the display complains about communication error (the same as was caused by PAS sensor with another controller). In your case it could be that one controller does not start with this display because of a protocol mismatch and the other because of other problems.

 

[lenger34]

It is what stancecoke said, manufacturers likely programming variations on customers demand. Today i got two other displays this time from Yosepower, so they work with Lishui Yosepower controllers. I got the KD21C and the C500. On my Lishui controller, again no luck. Both displays give communication error lol. I have still another one coming, SW900 color display from Ali, should be possible to select 5S. it looks the same as the color display sold by Groetech for Lishui but i beginning to think i maybe should have ordered it from Groetech instead of Ali because at Groetech it mentions for Lishui. But on the other hand it looks more and more Lishui used by "Minerva bikes" has some special flavor programmed.

So i now have the T8, KD21C, C500 and a SW900 on the way. Maybe i can look for the EN06 and then i give up. The Lishui controller LSW768-96F sits in a cheap Minerva E-bike with Mxus XF07 FM. Nothing fancy and a C300S display. I just wanted a spare display in case something go's wrong with it. But o boy it looks like i can't even find one that will work with the "Minerva" Lishui LSW768-96F controller... If the original display eventually dies i guess i better swap for a Kunteng sinus controller and Kunteng display thinking i can probably use the existing wiring / cables.

Adding to the last post, it is possible to flash lishui controllers based on STM32 chip if the last letter in its model is F or something like that. Most likely you will have to disassemble the controller and patch to certain pins and then try to pour open source firmware or somehow search for proprietary rom. You can choose any display protocol you want. See: GitHub - EBiCS/EBiCS_Firmware: Free FOC firmware for Lishui E-Bike-Controllers